Force Fins forces Rodale's Scuba Diving to pay for scuba equipment ratings scam

Force Fin <info@forcefin.com> wrote:
>Fortunately, we don't have time do so. Our life is tied up doing positive
>things... getting the Launch Pad line of interchangeable bladed fins ready
>for general distribution, preparing for the Scuba Radio dive with Cobalt

Oh, never mind Carl. He's too busy filling the group's need for the
active contrarian and the village idiot. Normally these are separate
roles, but you know, downsizing.

BTW, you'll get my jetfins from me when you pull the spring straps off my
cold dead corpse, no sooner!
--
Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com

"Jason O'Rourke" <jor@soda.csua.berkeley.edu> wrote in message
news:bpvk0o$25ol$1@agate.berkeley.edu...
> Dan Volker <dvolker@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >I could point out BAD shops much more easily. SunSports on Forest Hills
blvd
> >in West Palm jumps to mind immediately.
>
> I'm trying to recall the shop I visited last month on my trip. Seadog?
> Near Abernathy's outfit. Nice guys, btw.
>

That would have been Seapro. It is a very well stocked shop, and they do
have some pretty knowledgeable divers working there.
It's not a place where you would expect the best prices, but if you are on
your way to go diving, and need something right way, Seapro is awesome.

So were you diving on Jimmy Abernethy's boat? Funny, I don't recall
hearing from you, that you were about to dive here, and would I like to dive


How was the trip?

Regards,
Dan V

Dan Volker <dvolker@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>So were you diving on Jimmy Abernethy's boat? Funny, I don't recall
>hearing from you, that you were about to dive here, and would I like to dive
>


Work was a total bear heading into the trip - I didn't book that Thursday
until the day before, and I drove direct from the airport to the waiting boat.

I'll hit you offline on the trip details. I nearly did call you when the
weather grounded boats for the weekend.

Jason
--
Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com

"Dan Volker" <dvolker@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:r7rub.223$gU2.201@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>
> > Dan, I think your points about the fishermen are absolutely valid,
> > particularly with all of the 'fishing piers' down here in my area. I
> > wouldn't mind seeing them all go. I have to tell you though, even though
> > Abernethy may have been 2 or 3 miles offshore, down here there were
> several
> > ops that fed very close to shore, and some that fed on the first
reefline,
> > where student divers and schnorgellers are all splashing around daily.
Not
> > to mention the proximity to the beaches.
> >
>
> Dave,
> Feeding on the first reefline would piss me off, and be just about the
same
> level of ignorance ( for the dive operator) that I would assign to the
> "municipalities" who place fishing Piers in the middle of big public
> swimming beaches. You were right to be upset over that.
>
> However, the dive operators can't do this anymore--it is now illegal.
> So that story is over with.....

Yep, but the problem *was* that while it was legal, not everybody did it
responsibly.

>.
> If the ban on shark feeds by divers "had to" happen....why is it that all
> the "concerned parties" are now silent on a related issue which threatens
> far more swimmers every year--and can actually be linked directly to
swimmer
> attacks by sharks.
>
>
Let me know when you get the campaign going. I'll offer my support.

Dave.

friscuba@hawaii.rr.com (friscuba) wrote:
>
> Let's face it. I read the initial Rodale's report on split fins, they
> reported at the time they had been trying to get Force fins submitted
> for reviews for years, and only bought them after Apollo presented a
> pair of their own fins for review and tests. Force fins apparently
> tested superior to all fins in the test, except the split fins from
> Apollo. The market jumped for those which placed at the top of
> Rodale's test results...not the one which would have likely topped the
> test in previous years if they had only submitted their product for
> tests... Opportunites lost, perhaps Force would have cleaned up if
> only they had participated willingly in previous years.


The problem is that you can't really have true objectivity when you
insist that vendors donate their products for review: this element
alone creates a source of a bias (BTW, hadn't ScubaPro also been a
'decliner' for years?).

Afterall, if every Tom, Dick and Harry with a webpage (a public presence
as an independent, unbiased evaluator), the world's manufacturers would
clearly go out of business providing free 'evaluation' goods to all of
them, instead of making each of these businesses pay their own way.


From a business perspective, let's face realities here: to buy a dozen
pairs of fins for a test would run less than $2K.

That's too much for Tom/Dick/Harry, but for Rodale's, that's a drop in
the bucket: a recent Audit Bureau of Circulations report, Rodale's
Scuba Diving had a monthly paid circulation of 186,000 and a total
readership of more than 1 million (BTW, they also report that Scuba
Diving readers have an average household income of $121,000).

So to spend an extra $2K for review gear for each and every issue works
out to a per-magazine cost of 13 cents/year, or 2 cents per reader-year.


Considering that it costs them significantly more than this to mail out
each "subscription will lapse 6 [5, 4, 3] months from now" reminder, it
is quite transparent where their business priorities really lie.


-hh

" H. Huntzinger" wrote

> Afterall, if every Tom, Dick and Harry with a webpage (a public presence
> as an independent, unbiased evaluator), the world's manufacturers would
> clearly go out of business providing free 'evaluation' goods to all of
> them, instead of making each of these businesses pay their own way.

This does not wash. The fact is, products that are highly rated by any
testing agency sell better than those that are not. It is not at all clear
that the world's manufacturers would suffer any adverse financial effect at
all. What is clear is that those that submitted the best products would
gain market share at the expense of those that could not, or would not
compete. I don't see the downside.

> So to spend an extra $2K for review gear for each and every issue works
> out to a per-magazine cost of 13 cents/year, or 2 cents per reader-year.

It's not an extra $2k, is it? Fins are one of many items the company tests.
They test BCDs, regulators, knives, lights, just about everything you can
think of related to diving and a lot of things that aren't all that closely
related.

Lee

Lee Bell <leebell@ix.remove.netcom.com> wrote:
>> So to spend an extra $2K for review gear for each and every issue works
>> out to a per-magazine cost of 13 cents/year, or 2 cents per reader-year.
>
>It's not an extra $2k, is it? Fins are one of many items the company tests.
>They test BCDs, regulators, knives, lights, just about everything you can
>think of related to diving and a lot of things that aren't all that closely
>related.

And yet they don't end up with worthless gear at the end of the test.
Bought at the DM shop discount rate, and then sold off to those at RSD, or
even outside, the costs aren't that steep. (Well, except maybe to find a
sucker for the Mares turkey)

--
Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com

"Jason O'Rourke" <jor@soda.csua.berkeley.edu> wrote in message
news:br40fo$15qr$1@agate.berkeley.edu...
> Lee Bell <leebell@ix.remove.netcom.com> wrote:
> >> So to spend an extra $2K for review gear for each and every issue works
> >> out to a per-magazine cost of 13 cents/year, or 2 cents per
reader-year.
> >
> >It's not an extra $2k, is it? Fins are one of many items the company
tests.
> >They test BCDs, regulators, knives, lights, just about everything you can
> >think of related to diving and a lot of things that aren't all that
closely
> >related.
>
> And yet they don't end up with worthless gear at the end of the test.
> Bought at the DM shop discount rate, and then sold off to those at RSD, or
> even outside, the costs aren't that steep. (Well, except maybe to find a
> sucker for the Mares turkey)

Mares is making turkeys now? Wow, do they have a titanium version?

Chris Guynn left this mess on Tue, 09 Dec 2003 15:04:54 GMT for The Way to clean
up:
>
>
>"Jason O'Rourke" <jor@soda.csua.berkeley.edu> wrote in message
>news:br40fo$15qr$1@agate.berkeley.edu...
>> Lee Bell <leebell@ix.remove.netcom.com> wrote:
>> >> So to spend an extra $2K for review gear for each and every issue works
>> >> out to a per-magazine cost of 13 cents/year, or 2 cents per
>reader-year.
>> >
>> >It's not an extra $2k, is it? Fins are one of many items the company
>tests.
>> >They test BCDs, regulators, knives, lights, just about everything you can
>> >think of related to diving and a lot of things that aren't all that
>closely
>> >related.
>>
>> And yet they don't end up with worthless gear at the end of the test.
>> Bought at the DM shop discount rate, and then sold off to those at RSD, or
>> even outside, the costs aren't that steep. (Well, except maybe to find a
>> sucker for the Mares turkey)
>
>Mares is making turkeys now? Wow, do they have a titanium version?

It's only a backplate and wings.

Tao te Carl
"It takes a village to have an idiot." - Carl (c) 2003

(Kudos to Cap'n Jim Wyatt for this link) BEFORE you ask a dumb-ass question
here...http://www.speakeasy.org/~neilco/bart.gif

"de Valois" <devalois@nailedandused.com> wrote in message
news:br57hl01gvc@drn.newsguy.com...
> Chris Guynn left this mess on Tue, 09 Dec 2003 15:04:54 GMT for The Way to
clean
> up:
> >
> >
> >"Jason O'Rourke" <jor@soda.csua.berkeley.edu> wrote in message
> >news:br40fo$15qr$1@agate.berkeley.edu...
> >> Lee Bell <leebell@ix.remove.netcom.com> wrote:
> >> >> So to spend an extra $2K for review gear for each and every issue
works
> >> >> out to a per-magazine cost of 13 cents/year, or 2 cents per
> >reader-year.
> >> >
> >> >It's not an extra $2k, is it? Fins are one of many items the company
> >tests.
> >> >They test BCDs, regulators, knives, lights, just about everything you
can
> >> >think of related to diving and a lot of things that aren't all that
> >closely
> >> >related.
> >>
> >> And yet they don't end up with worthless gear at the end of the test.
> >> Bought at the DM shop discount rate, and then sold off to those at RSD,
or
> >> even outside, the costs aren't that steep. (Well, except maybe to find
a
> >> sucker for the Mares turkey)
> >
> >Mares is making turkeys now? Wow, do they have a titanium version?
>
> It's only a backplate and wings.

How does it taste fried?

>
> Tao te Carl
> "It takes a village to have an idiot." - Carl (c) 2003
>
> (Kudos to Cap'n Jim Wyatt for this link) BEFORE you ask a dumb-ass
question
> here...http://www.speakeasy.org/~neilco/bart.gif
>