The Shark Dive at Nassau

>>Clint do you really think it is a good idea to get sharks to associate
>>divers with food ?
>

I would like to respond to all the comments about my post. First of all, I
will not resort to throwing insults around but instead, I would like to
offer my apologies to anyone who is offended by my articles and posts. I
thought that is was perfectly acceptable to have a signature with a link to
a website. After all, one does not have to click on the link. As for
posting the entire articles, I could but I thought that due to space, posts
should be relatively short in nature and better with links to articles -
correct me if I'm wrong.

As for the shark dive, perhaps I'm not as experienced as some of you in
diving, especially those of you who have done it all. I'm not there yet but
hope to someday. I liked the shark dive as did the others in my group so it
was still darn exciting to me. As whether it's ethical, I don't know as I'm
not a marine biologist so I don't know if shark dives are doing any harm.
This would be the same as Stingray City wouldn't it?

As for my articles, they may not be the most exotic places - again, I
haven't traveled as far as other more experienced divers like some of you.
At least I'm trying and hopefully somebody out there may benefit from
reading about the 'mundane' places I've dived in. I thought that a
discussion group was a place where one can express opinions about diving and
my articles are certainly that. They are my opinion as one diver.

If the subject of my dive locations do not interest you, you don't have to
click on the link. As I dive in more locations, I'll have hopefully more
exotic places to write about.

Thank you to Dan for his support.

Clint

"Clint" <pepmax@videotron.ca> wrote in message
news:Qn6af.61307$u8.1540349@weber.videotron.net...

> I would like to respond to all the comments about my post. First of all,
> I will not resort to throwing insults around but instead, I would like to
> offer my apologies to anyone who is offended by my articles and posts. I
> thought that is was perfectly acceptable to have a signature with a link
> to a website. After all, one does not have to click on the link. As for
> posting the entire articles, I could but I thought that due to space,
> posts should be relatively short in nature and better with links to
> articles - correct me if I'm wrong.

You're wrong. Actual content is archived for posterity's sake. Whatever
content may be on your commercial website is gone as soon as you can't
afford the ISP bill after suffering a dramatic decrease in sales due to the
rec.scuba-inspired boycott of all blatant newsgroup spammers.

> As for the shark dive, perhaps I'm not as experienced as some of you in
> diving, especially those of you who have done it all. I'm not there yet
> but hope to someday. I liked the shark dive as did the others in my group
> so it was still darn exciting to me. As whether it's ethical, I don't
> know as I'm not a marine biologist so I don't know if shark dives are
> doing any harm. This would be the same as Stingray City wouldn't it?

In a sense. I've seen stingrays do some damage to people, so I suppose they
are becoming habituated to eating DMs. It's only a matter of time.

> As for my articles, they may not be the most exotic places - again, I
> haven't traveled as far as other more experienced divers like some of you.
> At least I'm trying and hopefully somebody out there may benefit from
> reading about the 'mundane' places I've dived in. I thought that a
> discussion group was a place where one can express opinions about diving
> and my articles are certainly that. They are my opinion as one diver.

So post them, and leave off the commercial sig. That will settle the matter
once and for all as to whether you're a spammer. The only reason you post a
commercial sig is to advertise.

> If the subject of my dive locations do not interest you, you don't have to
> click on the link. As I dive in more locations, I'll have hopefully more
> exotic places to write about.

I'm sure you will. Business would be terrible without the free advertising,
and then you wouldn't be able to afford traveling.

> Thank you to Dan for his support.

Has he given you monetary support? As a neighbor Canadian, I'd wonder why
he doesn't buy your outdoorwear. If he does buy your outdoorwear, I'd
wonder whether Dan is in cahoots with you, a spammer by association.

"Clint" wrote

> I will not resort to throwing insults around . . .

That'll be different for this group.

> I thought that is was perfectly acceptable to have a signature with a link
> to a website.

Within reason, it is.

> As for posting the entire articles, I could but I thought that due to
> space,
>> posts should be relatively short in nature and better with links to
>> articles - correct me if I'm wrong.

Like Greg said, you're mistaken. If you've got something you want the
people here to read, post it here, provided, of course, that it's more than
a poorly disguised advertisement and, of course, it's something you think
will be of interest here.

> As for the shark dive, perhaps I'm not as experienced as some of you in
> diving, especially those of you who have done it all.

None of us have done it all either, but some have done considerably more
than the average resort diver.

> I liked the shark dive as did the others in my group so it was still darn
> exciting to me.
> As whether it's ethical, I don't know as I'm not a marine biologist so I
> don't know if shark dives are doing any harm.

You don't have to be a marine biologist to figure this one out. It changes
the shark's behavior, concentrates them at the expense of other animals when
they're not being fed and it causes them to associate people with food. All
of the above are bad for sharks, or any other wild animal. Many of us were
around when the shark feeding debates were going on in Florida. It's a
relatively hot topic every time it comes up.

> This would be the same as Stingray City wouldn't it?

More or less. Don't let it bother you a lot. Most of us who have done
shark dives, found then pretty exciting the first time or two as well. We
still get excited when we see a large shark underwater. We've just prefer
to see them in their natural state and behavior. Same goes for Stingray
City. We didn't get so ecologically correct until after we'd done both a
few times. You'll probably do the same, eventually.

Lee

On Wed, 2 Nov 2005 19:07:53 -0500, "Lee Bell"
<pleebell2@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>"Clint" wrote
>
>> I will not resort to throwing insults around . . .
>
>That'll be different for this group.
>
>> I thought that is was perfectly acceptable to have a signature with a link
>> to a website.
>
>Within reason, it is.
>
>> As for posting the entire articles, I could but I thought that due to
>> space,
>>> posts should be relatively short in nature and better with links to
>>> articles - correct me if I'm wrong.
>
>Like Greg said, you're mistaken. If you've got something you want the
>people here to read, post it here, provided, of course, that it's more than
>a poorly disguised advertisement and, of course, it's something you think
>will be of interest here.
>
>> As for the shark dive, perhaps I'm not as experienced as some of you in
>> diving, especially those of you who have done it all.
>
>None of us have done it all either, but some have done considerably more
>than the average resort diver.
>
>> I liked the shark dive as did the others in my group so it was still darn
>> exciting to me.
>> As whether it's ethical, I don't know as I'm not a marine biologist so I
>> don't know if shark dives are doing any harm.
>
>You don't have to be a marine biologist to figure this one out. It changes
>the shark's behavior, concentrates them at the expense of other animals when
>they're not being fed and it causes them to associate people with food. All
>of the above are bad for sharks, or any other wild animal. Many of us were
>around when the shark feeding debates were going on in Florida. It's a
>relatively hot topic every time it comes up.
>
>> This would be the same as Stingray City wouldn't it?
>
>More or less. Don't let it bother you a lot. Most of us who have done
>shark dives, found then pretty exciting the first time or two as well. We
>still get excited when we see a large shark underwater. We've just prefer
>to see them in their natural state and behavior. Same goes for Stingray
>City. We didn't get so ecologically correct until after we'd done both a
>few times. You'll probably do the same, eventually.
>
>Lee
>
>
Clint as a follow up, yes I did a shark dive, it was on dive 8 after I
certed. I went on a dive trip to Nassau and dove Friday afternoon and
evening. Two dives Sat AM, two dives Sat afternoon. On Sunday we did a
dive along the wall at the shark dive location, I enjoyed that dive
more than the next which was over weight, kneel on the bottom at 52
feet and put your hands in your arm pits and watch.
What was very interesting was we were at 52 feet for 1/2 hour and to a
person we got back on the boat with less than 1K psi. Seems like a lot
of air was hovered.

"Clint" <pepmax@videotron.ca> wrote:

> >>Clint do you really think it is a good idea to get sharks to associate
> >>divers with food ?
> >
>
> ... I thought that is was perfectly acceptable to have a signature
> with a link to a website.

Yes, but that is not what you did.


> After all, one does not have to click on the link. As for posting
> the entire articles, I could but I thought that due to space, posts
> should be relatively short in nature and better with links to
> articles - correct me if I'm wrong.

Please consider yourself corrected (in other words, 'you are wrong').

On USENET the body of a message is generally expected contain the actual
message, not be merely a short "go look here" redirection to one's own
website. Exceptions are if its heavy with multimedia (binaries) which
cannot be posted in a text-only group. Here, its called a "Dive Report"
or "Trip Report".


The value-added of this is that (a) its easier for the readers for it to
already be included (especially those who download and read offline),
plus (b) it will be archived better under Google Groups.



> As for the shark dive, perhaps I'm not as experienced as some of
> you in diving, especially those of you who have done it all.
> I'm not there yet but hope to someday.

Regardless of how many years we've been diving, the reason we keep going
is because we all look forward to our next dive, because there's always
something more to see and experience. It does, however, get a bit
tiresome to hear year after year some novice make claims about the
"BEST!" this or that.

For example, we recently had an enthusiastic individual making claims
that a particular island (which happened to be his home) figuratively
had the world's best diving - - and yet he wasn't even finished doing
his OW certification checkout dives yet! When someone asks you "How
long have you been certified, son?" it is to perhaps encourage a little
bit more perspective.

This is why exception was taken to your claim of: "The shark dive is
certainly one of the most exciting and memorable dives a scuba diver
will ever do." Perhaps you should review some of these Howard Hall
video clips (from "Island of the Sharks"):

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sharks/...rseavideo.html

FWIW, it looks like you'll have to buy the DVD for the Night Shark Dive
scene...it actually took them two attempts to film it, as the first
attempt had too many aggressive Silky Sharks (20-50), so the film crew
aborted the dive shortly after entry.


> I liked the shark dive as did the others in my group so it
> was still darn exciting to me. As whether it's ethical, I don't
> know as I'm not a marine biologist so I don't know if shark
> dives are doing any harm.

Sorry, but that's a very lame cop-out. After all, you don't have to be
a murderer to know if murder is ethical or not.


> This would be the same as Stingray City wouldn't it?

Yes, it would.

Stingray City is a favorite of Cruise Ship "Pod" People, although a few
may also do a shore dive over at Eden Rock. The latter is generally
reserved for those who think that by going on Royal Caribbean or
Norwegen instead of Princess or Carnival that they are being "Worldly".




> As for my articles, they may not be the most exotic places...

Then don't represent them as such. Claims such as: "...certainly one of
the most exciting and memorable dives a scuba diver will ever do" are
your own undoing. You sound like one of those PADI Badge-o-Matic
"Master" Diver suckers.

BTW, your 'trip report' webpages are undated, which is a bad thing.

Its a bad thing because the WWW now has tons of bad information online
because the information became obsolete and without a listed publication
date, future readers have no way of knowing if the page was brand new
yesterday or is a stale and useless page put online a decade ago.

For example, I'd bet a doughnut that Clint's Nassau Shark Dive here
didn't even take place in 2005. Probably not 2004, either.



-hh

"-hh" <{NOSPAM-rm_to_reply}rec-scuba2005@huntzinger.com> wrote in message
news:{NOSPAM-rm_to_reply}rec-scuba2005-C3E641.08165003112005@news.isp.giganews.com...

> This is why exception was taken to your claim of: "The shark dive is
> certainly one of the most exciting and memorable dives a scuba diver
> will ever do." Perhaps you should review some of these Howard Hall
> video clips (from "Island of the Sharks"):
>
> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sharks/...rseavideo.html
>
> FWIW, it looks like you'll have to buy the DVD for the Night Shark Dive
> scene...it actually took them two attempts to film it, as the first
> attempt had too many aggressive Silky Sharks (20-50), so the film crew
> aborted the dive shortly after entry.

We didn't have any silkies the night we dove Manuelita, but there were two
that hung around our boat every night. A couple divers wanted to get in the
water with them and film, but the captain wouldn't let them.

> Sorry, but that's a very lame cop-out. After all, you don't have to be
> a murderer to know if murder is ethical or not.

Murder can be ethical in the right situations. But is it ethical to murder
a shark just because he ate a DM? It's always bothered me that we humans
insist on associating animals with human food sources, and then we always
kill the animal when it decides to taste a little human flesh. Any time one
of our local mountain lions eats a toddler, DFG always sends a hunter out to
kill it. At least sharks can get away with it most of the time, having a
big deep ocean to hide in.

> Stingray City is a favorite of Cruise Ship "Pod" People, although a few
> may also do a shore dive over at Eden Rock. The latter is generally
> reserved for those who think that by going on Royal Caribbean or
> Norwegen instead of Princess or Carnival that they are being "Worldly".

I'm getting excited about my 3-day Carnival cruise in February that's headed
to exotic Ensenada. I'll truly be Worldly then.

Actually, I'm going to try to get the inside scoop on these pod people that
I've otherwise only observed from afar. I hate knocking something until
I've actually tried it. Who knows, I might like cruising just like Reef
Fish. Besides, it's my 38th birthday, which means I'm really getting way
too old for a "party" boat and might as well try to get one last big bang in
before I settle for unworldly remote diving resorts and liveaboards.

Greg Mossman wrote:
> "-hh" <{NOSPAM-rm_to_reply}rec-scuba2005@huntzinger.com> wrote in message
> news:{NOSPAM-rm_to_reply}rec-scuba2005-C3E641.08165003112005@news.isp.giganews.com...
>
>
>>This is why exception was taken to your claim of: "The shark dive is
>>certainly one of the most exciting and memorable dives a scuba diver
>>will ever do." Perhaps you should review some of these Howard Hall
>>video clips (from "Island of the Sharks"):
>>
>>http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sharks/...rseavideo.html
>>
>>FWIW, it looks like you'll have to buy the DVD for the Night Shark Dive
>>scene...it actually took them two attempts to film it, as the first
>>attempt had too many aggressive Silky Sharks (20-50), so the film crew
>>aborted the dive shortly after entry.
>
>
> We didn't have any silkies the night we dove Manuelita, but there were two
> that hung around our boat every night. A couple divers wanted to get in the
> water with them and film, but the captain wouldn't let them.
>
>
>>Sorry, but that's a very lame cop-out. After all, you don't have to be
>>a murderer to know if murder is ethical or not.
>
>
> Murder can be ethical in the right situations. But is it ethical to murder
> a shark just because he ate a DM? It's always bothered me that we humans
> insist on associating animals with human food sources, and then we always
> kill the animal when it decides to taste a little human flesh. Any time one
> of our local mountain lions eats a toddler, DFG always sends a hunter out to
> kill it. At least sharks can get away with it most of the time, having a
> big deep ocean to hide in.
>
>
>>Stingray City is a favorite of Cruise Ship "Pod" People, although a few
>>may also do a shore dive over at Eden Rock. The latter is generally
>>reserved for those who think that by going on Royal Caribbean or
>>Norwegen instead of Princess or Carnival that they are being "Worldly".
>
>
> I'm getting excited about my 3-day Carnival cruise in February that's headed
> to exotic Ensenada. I'll truly be Worldly then.

Just exactly when in February? Natural disasters and phenomenon seem to
follow you around. I want to make sure I steer clear of Carnival and
Ensenada at the time of your travel!

Greg Mossman wrote:
>
> We didn't have any silkies the night we dove Manuelita, but there were two
> that hung around our boat every night. A couple divers wanted to get in the
> water with them and film, but the captain wouldn't let them.

Interesting.


> Murder can be ethical in the right situations.

Wouldn't it then be called 'Capital Punishment'?

> Any time one of our local mountain lions eats a toddler, DFG always sends
> a hunter out to kill it. At least sharks can get away with it most of the time,
> having a big deep ocean to hide in.

Here in the East, we've yet to lose enough toddlers to our exploding
black bear population for the flaming tree huggers to realize that the
encroachment problems are well beyond the "secure your garbage cans"
phase. And insofar as the sharks, unfortunately, we humans will still
go out to seek 'revenge' and kill 3 or 4 sharks per attack, not
bothering to worry of it it actually was the 'guilty' shark or not.


> I'm getting excited about my 3-day Carnival cruise in February that's headed
> to exotic Ensenada. I'll truly be Worldly then...

Enjoy. Make sure to ask 'International Woman' Dena if there's any
scuba options there


> Besides, it's my 38th birthday, which means I'm really getting way
> too old for a "party" boat and might as well try to get one last big bang in
> before I settle for unworldly remote diving resorts and liveaboards.

If you count in Hexidecimal, you can claim that you're still under age
30


-hh

"-hh" <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote in message
news:1131054605.314921.148000@g14g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...

>> Murder can be ethical in the right situations.
>
> Wouldn't it then be called 'Capital Punishment'?

If you think Capital Punishment is ethical, that an "eye for an eye" has its
place in our modern times. I was thinking more along the lines of killing
one person to save one or more others.

> Here in the East, we've yet to lose enough toddlers to our exploding
> black bear population for the flaming tree huggers to realize that the
> encroachment problems are well beyond the "secure your garbage cans"
> phase. And insofar as the sharks, unfortunately, we humans will still
> go out to seek 'revenge' and kill 3 or 4 sharks per attack, not
> bothering to worry of it it actually was the 'guilty' shark or not.

Send your black bears out here. The last one spotted in my neighborhood was
hit by a car and killed.

In California, far more divers are killed by white sharks than white sharks
are killed by divers.

> Enjoy. Make sure to ask 'International Woman' Dena if there's any
> scuba options there

She'll probably advise La Bufadora as a splendid warm water Mexico vacation
dive spot. Last time I dove there, it was in the 40s at 50 feet. Naw,
we're doing the wine country excursion. If I have to pay for the excursion,
it might as well include free booze.

> If you count in Hexidecimal, you can claim that you're still under age
> 30

How much is that in metric?

Thus spake "Greg Mossman" <mossman@qnet.com> :

>"-hh" <{NOSPAM-rm_to_reply}rec-scuba2005@huntzinger.com> wrote in message
>news:{NOSPAM-rm_to_reply}rec-scuba2005-C3E641.08165003112005@news.isp.giganews.com...
>
>> This is why exception was taken to your claim of: "The shark dive is
>> certainly one of the most exciting and memorable dives a scuba diver
>> will ever do." Perhaps you should review some of these Howard Hall
>> video clips (from "Island of the Sharks"):
>>
>> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sharks/...rseavideo.html
>>
>> FWIW, it looks like you'll have to buy the DVD for the Night Shark Dive
>> scene...it actually took them two attempts to film it, as the first
>> attempt had too many aggressive Silky Sharks (20-50), so the film crew
>> aborted the dive shortly after entry.
>
>We didn't have any silkies the night we dove Manuelita, but there were two
>that hung around our boat every night. A couple divers wanted to get in the
>water with them and film, but the captain wouldn't let them.

Are silkies really in that foul of a mood? I wouldn't know, myself.

>
>> Sorry, but that's a very lame cop-out. After all, you don't have to be
>> a murderer to know if murder is ethical or not.
>
>Murder can be ethical in the right situations. But is it ethical to murder
>a shark just because he ate a DM? It's always bothered me that we humans
>insist on associating animals with human food sources, and then we always
>kill the animal when it decides to taste a little human flesh. Any time one
>of our local mountain lions eats a toddler, DFG always sends a hunter out to
>kill it. At least sharks can get away with it most of the time, having a
>big deep ocean to hide in.

To me, shark feeding is kind of stupid. Sooner or later you're going
to get bit, and then somebody will howl about the "evil shark".
Imagine how idiotic it would be to, say, feed a shark or a barracuda
from your mouth.

>
>> Stingray City is a favorite of Cruise Ship "Pod" People, although a few
>> may also do a shore dive over at Eden Rock. The latter is generally
>> reserved for those who think that by going on Royal Caribbean or
>> Norwegen instead of Princess or Carnival that they are being "Worldly".
>
>I'm getting excited about my 3-day Carnival cruise in February that's headed
>to exotic Ensenada. I'll truly be Worldly then.

Paradise? Nice ship, actually one of the less glitzy ships in their
fleet. I've got some pics I took on a ship inspection earlier this
year. We sailed on the Elation, a sister ship, in June.

>
>Actually, I'm going to try to get the inside scoop on these pod people that
>I've otherwise only observed from afar. I hate knocking something until
>I've actually tried it. Who knows, I might like cruising just like Reef
>Fish. Besides, it's my 38th birthday, which means I'm really getting way
>too old for a "party" boat and might as well try to get one last big bang in
>before I settle for unworldly remote diving resorts and liveaboards.

Hey, I'm 49 and still have fun on them. Although I really want to
head back to Roatan. Sadly, my diving may be restricted to local lake
diving, since it doesn't appear that Carol's ear is going to heal
properly. Or do some diving on our trips to Hawai'i while she
(shudder) shops without a net.

I'll have you know that when I was your age I was younger than I am
now.

>
>
--
dillon

Anyone who says grown men don't cry has never
taken a differential equations final.