Belize in April

In article <ec7f540b-40e4-47ef-b015-
12624181be9e@j28g2000hsj.googlegroups.com>, lclee1@gmail.com says...
> On Feb 22, 6:32 am, mag3 <zmpmag3-plon...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 05:42:24 -0800 (PST), Star <lcl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >I, too, found the Blue Hole highly overrated. 130 ft for 10 minutes
> > >on a single Al80 was stupid; next time I would at least take bands so
> > >I can make a set of independent doubles, or sling an extra 80 as a
> > >stage. The second dive was actually much nicer - a spot outside the
> > >reef where there were a particularly large number of turtles that
> > >day.
> >
> > Will the dive ops (eg. Peter Hughes) let you do that (ie. make a pair of
> > doubles)? I guess for a fee, they may, if it's not a liabilty risk to them.
> >
> > ____________________________________________
> > Regards,
> >
> > Arnold
>
> The issue is getting the op to fill the tanks after you have drained
> and banded them Honestly, I'd just not bother diving the Blue
> Hole again. The big deal is in saying you've dove it.

It's not an issue if you make independents or sling an 80. I'm sure the
issue is time and the lack of support/gas for proper deco diving.

If one needs more gas to do the 10 minute dive, a sling would be the
lightest to carry and easiest to make, requiring 2 bolt snaps, string
and a hose clamp. I've done it without the hose clamp. The thing is,
though, that unless you're practiced and comfortable with it, the net
return is nil because you'll use more gas wrestling with it, and as with
any independent system, you have to worry about switching regs every 200
or 300 PSI.
--
Foolery, sir, does walk about the orb like the sun; it shines
everywhere.

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 22:21:12 -0500, Dan Bracuk <bracuk@pathcom.com> wrote:

>mag3 <zmpmag3-plongee@yahoo.com> pounded away at his keyboard
>resulting in:
>
>:Will the dive ops (eg. Peter Hughes) let you do that (ie. make a pair of
>:doubles)? I guess for a fee, they may, if it's not a liabilty risk to them.
>
>I doubt it. As I vaguely remember my Peter Hughes Blue Hole dive, it
>wouldn't accomplish anything for you anyway. We did Blue Hole as a
>guided group dive and it the bottom time was very limited. There was
>no late morning dive. Instead we went to a nearby island with a
>boobie bird and frigate park, and had a bbq on the beach.

Nonetheless, God forbid I be the one to "call the dive" for everyone else by running
"out of mix." Like I say, I'm sure I'd get through the deep part of it, but I'd be running
dangerously close to below 500psi with a single AL80 on the shallow part of it later on,
especially if the full run time is the standard 40min or so. Even in Palau last year, I was
given a steel 100 with 32%. And on our dives in the keys, it was a Steel 120.

Although, I do recall now having a conversation with the Peter Hughes rep for my district
about this. IIRC, they will allow you to build doubles (if you bring all the hardware -
bands, manifolds, double regs etc.). Either that, or you can bring your own pony if you
can transport it (they claim it "very unlikely" that you'll find one available for rent locally).

I'll verify with them again.


____________________________________________
Regards,

Arnold

On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 09:42:15 -0500, Dan Bracuk <bracuk@pathcom.com> wrote:

>You worry too much. Plus, there is no wall. You go down the hole,
>hang about for a few minutes, come to the top, and finish your dive in
>20 odd ft of water.

Hmmmmm. If that's the standard profile, then yeah, that would be a tad
disappointing.
____________________________________________
Regards,

Arnold

"Al Wells" <al.wells@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.2229ee4f9b8b77cd9899f3@news.verizon.net.. .

> It's not an issue if you make independents or sling an 80. I'm sure the
> issue is time and the lack of support/gas for proper deco diving.
>
> If one needs more gas to do the 10 minute dive, a sling would be the
> lightest to carry and easiest to make, requiring 2 bolt snaps, string
> and a hose clamp. I've done it without the hose clamp. The thing is,
> though, that unless you're practiced and comfortable with it, the net
> return is nil because you'll use more gas wrestling with it, and as with
> any independent system, you have to worry about switching regs every 200
> or 300 PSI.
> --
> Foolery, sir, does walk about the orb like the sun; it shines
> everywhere.

From the infamous Cobber:

"As the folks on this list know my rule of thumb is:

-If you are diving with a single and think you need a pony, what you really
need are doubles.

-And if you don't think you need doubles, then you don't need a pony.

IOW if you are doing diving where safety cannot be assured by rule of thirds
and a buddy then you need doubles.

When do you use a single? When you are diving profiles from which you can do
a controlled ascent to the surface and not get seriously bent.

When do you use doubles? When you are doing dives which require you to do
stops or you wind up in the chamber.

Needless to say that many disagree with me for various reasons, mostly
because it would be inconvenient to use doubles for some reason or other, or
a money thing.

And in recognition of this inane hard-headedness which is typical of scuba
divers in that some are going to use a stupid pony with their single come
hell or high water I will recommend to those that you set up your pony as a
stage bottle (DIR style) and clip it on like a stage.

Many moan and groan that this will cause the bottle to get in their way. But
when attached to your tank you really can't get at your pony and it is a
horrible snag/drag/balance hazard. You can either clip it to your shoulder
and hip Drings or clip the top of the pony to your hip Dring and it won't
get in the way and will follow you around like a puppy dog if it is a proper
30 or 40 cuft Aluminum tank and not a steel one."

On Feb 23, 6:02*am, mag3 <zmpmag3-plon...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Nonetheless, God forbid I be the one to "call the dive" for everyone else by running
> "out of mix." Like I say, I'm sure I'd get through the deep part of it, but I'd be running
> dangerously close to below 500psi with a single AL80 on the shallow part of it later on,
> especially if the full run time is the standard 40min or so. Even in Palaulast year, I was
> given a steel 100 with 32%. And on our dives in the keys, it was a Steel 120. * * * *

You might not want to get used to bigger tanks. They simply don't
exist in many/most parts of the divable world. In Belize, it might be
possible to rent them from a land-based operator. The Nekton Pilot
carries 95s, but they don't do the Blue Hole. AFAIK, the Aggressor
and Peter Hughes boats there, like Aggressors and Peter Hughes boats
around the world, only carry 80s and if you're real brave, 63s.

Dive boats in Maui routinely take people to 140' off the back wall of
Molokini on AL80s. Plenty of people do 140' and deeper in Bonaire on
AL80s. I'm not sure why doing the Blue Hole on an AL80 seems to stand
out as such a big deal.

On Feb 23, 6:02*am, mag3 <zmpmag3-plon...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Although, I do recall now having a conversation with the Peter Hughes rep for my district
> about this. IIRC, they will allow you to build doubles (if you bring all the hardware -
> bands, manifolds, double regs etc.). Either that, or you can bring your own pony if you
> can transport it (they claim it "very unlikely" that you'll find one available for rent locally).

Unless it's a deco-oriented trip, I doubt they'd allow you to assemble
doubles because the only point would be to break their rule against
mandatory deco diving. At the least, I'm certain they would demand
proof of technical certification. Also, you'd have to have a buddy.
While PH now apparently allows solo diving off a couple of their boats
per their website, I don't think they'd allow you to combine solo with
a decompression obligation. The main thing is providing support for
your safety. If a DM isn't willing to do the dive with you, allowing
you to complete it on your own profile will at the very least endanger
their schedule, but I'm sure they'd fear it would endanger a lot more
and would find it a lot easier to just tell you "no".

As for a pony, they will allow you to bring one for a redundant air
source, but not to allow you to extend your dives. As a matter of
fact, they stopping filling the pony of a diver on my Galapagos trip
who was guilty of doing just that, his Extended Range certification
and 600+ dives notwithstanding.

The only liveaboard I've been on that allowed use of doubles on their
standard itinerary was the Truk Odyssey.

In article <jaidnUAjiYDux13anZ2dnUVZ_qqgnZ2d@wavecable.com> ,
pugetsounddiver@gmail.com says...
> -If you are diving with a single and think you need a pony, what you really
> need are doubles.
>
> -And if you don't think you need doubles, then you don't need a pony.
>
> IOW if you are doing diving where safety cannot be assured by rule of thirds
> and a buddy then you need doubles.
>
> When do you use a single? When you are diving profiles from which you can do
> a controlled ascent to the surface and not get seriously bent.
>
> When do you use doubles? When you are doing dives which require you to do
> stops or you wind up in the chamber.

Most of the dive boats in NJ require divers to have a redundant gas
source with its own regulator. Doubles qualify, so I just use doubles,
but many use a pony and a single tank. Some folks we know here use a
single tank and sling a 40 like a deco bottle. I'm not really sure why
the boat owners require this, because the dives are in the recreational
depth range, but my guess is that it's because most dive solo and the
boats are tied to the wrecks, with a mix of people doing NDL and deco
dives. There is no provision for chasing someone who comes up off the
line in a current, and the wrecks are in very busy shipping lanes.

From a private boat, I would do these dives with a shot line and live
boat, and not cut the shotline loose for deco if the wreck is in a busy
place. This way you're not creating the problem to be solved with the
addition of gear like a pony bottle.

"Al Wells" <al.wells@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.222a2c31f80b35a39899f4@news.verizon.net.. .
> In article <jaidnUAjiYDux13anZ2dnUVZ_qqgnZ2d@wavecable.com> ,
> pugetsounddiver@gmail.com says...
> > -If you are diving with a single and think you need a pony, what you
really
> > need are doubles.
> >
> > -And if you don't think you need doubles, then you don't need a pony.
> >
> > IOW if you are doing diving where safety cannot be assured by rule of
thirds
> > and a buddy then you need doubles.
> >
> > When do you use a single? When you are diving profiles from which you
can do
> > a controlled ascent to the surface and not get seriously bent.
> >
> > When do you use doubles? When you are doing dives which require you to
do
> > stops or you wind up in the chamber.
>
> Most of the dive boats in NJ require divers to have a redundant gas
> source with its own regulator. Doubles qualify, so I just use doubles,
> but many use a pony and a single tank. Some folks we know here use a
> single tank and sling a 40 like a deco bottle. I'm not really sure why
> the boat owners require this, because the dives are in the recreational
> depth range, but my guess is that it's because most dive solo and the
> boats are tied to the wrecks, with a mix of people doing NDL and deco
> dives. There is no provision for chasing someone who comes up off the
> line in a current, and the wrecks are in very busy shipping lanes.
>
> From a private boat, I would do these dives with a shot line and live
> boat, and not cut the shotline loose for deco if the wreck is in a busy
> place. This way you're not creating the problem to be solved with the
> addition of gear like a pony bottle.

That is one of those situations where you thumb it in the parking lot.

In those conditions, live boat is simply just sane.

Al, you *have* to make time to come out here and dive. If possible, you also
need to go up and dive Agamemnon and Skookumchuck off the Topline.

Also, ping me offline, a very dear lady friend of mine is going to be out
snooping around Ocracoke Island.

On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 10:08:21 -0800 (PST), Greg Mossman <mossman@qnet.com> wrote:

>Unless it's a deco-oriented trip,

It is not....

>While PH now apparently allows solo diving off a couple of their boats
>per their website, I don't think they'd allow you to combine solo with
>a decompression obligation.

I don't intend to. I simply want to have sufficient gas with me to get a
decent dive in (ie. whatever their standard run time is) and not have to
go back early and perhaps disappoint those with whom I'm diving.

> If a DM isn't willing to do the dive with you, allowing
>you to complete it on your own profile will at the very least endanger
>their schedule, but I'm sure they'd fear it would endanger a lot more
>and would find it a lot easier to just tell you "no".

And if they do, then I'll just have to live within their policy. If that means
I have to ascend early, then I ascend early. Maybe they'll get the message
and try to accommodate me somehow. They will if they want that nice 10%
tip on the night before departure!


>As for a pony, they will allow you to bring one for a redundant air
>source, but not to allow you to extend your dives. As a matter of
>fact, they stopping filling the pony of a diver on my Galapagos trip
>who was guilty of doing just that, his Extended Range certification
>and 600+ dives notwithstanding.

Again, I don't plan to extend anything. I just want enough gas with me to
get in a decent run time. I admire some of you that can go 1hr on a single
AL80 and come back with > 500psi. I can't yet. I'm closer than I was 1yr
ago, but not quite there. I know I can't on a "Blue Hole" type deep dive. I'd
be much more comfortable with a bit more back gas.
____________________________________________
Regards,

Arnold

On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 12:44:10 -0500, Dan Bracuk <bracuk@pathcom.com> wrote:

>:Nonetheless, God forbid I be the one to "call the dive" for everyone else by running
>:"out of mix." Like I say, I'm sure I'd get through the deep part of it, but I'd be running
>:dangerously close to below 500psi with a single AL80 on the shallow part of it later on,
>:especially if the full run time is the standard 40min or so. Even in Palau last year, I was
>:given a steel 100 with 32%. And on our dives in the keys, it was a Steel 120.
>
>It's only the hole part of the dive that's done as a group. Once
>you're in the shallows your're on your own.
>
>You'll be fine.

Fair enough....
____________________________________________
Regards,

Arnold