Re: US deserter seeks Canada asylum

>From: Tarapia Tapioco comesefosse@ntani.firenze.linux.it
>Date: 12/7/2004 8:01 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <e43cab8231f3a4a27a68a3d5e3e7a74c@firenze.linux.it >
>
>US deserter seeks Canada asylum
>
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4074151.stm

That's because he'll fit right in.



Popeye
The only working atomic bomb platforms the
Japanese ever had were delivered via airmail.

Popeye NCAT3 wrote:

> That's because he'll fit right in.
>
>

I doubt he'll be let in. He isn't the first American to try this, and I
doubt he'll be the last. Thing is, the US isn't a dictatorship, and his
service is voluntary (underline the voluntary thing, that's important).
We have real refugees, from places actually worth escaping from. We
prefer to let them in, as they actually have legitimate reasons to leave
their country.

Bryan

Bryan Heit wrote:

> Popeye NCAT3 wrote:
>
>> That's because he'll fit right in.
>>
>>
>
> I doubt he'll be let in. He isn't the first American to try this, and I
> doubt he'll be the last. Thing is, the US isn't a dictatorship, and his
> service is voluntary (underline the voluntary thing, that's important).
> We have real refugees, from places actually worth escaping from. We
> prefer to let them in, as they actually have legitimate reasons to leave
> their country.
>

What about all the draft dodgers from the Vietnam era?

--
"I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying that I
approved of it."
”- Mark Twain

nitespark wrote:

>
> What about all the draft dodgers from the Vietnam era?
>

Completely different, for 2 reasons:

1) In Canada forced military service (i.e. being drafted) is illegal.
As such it is grounds for refugee claims. The man in question
volunteered for military service - as in he went to a recruiting office,
asked to join, and signed on the dotted line. No gun was pointed at his
head, he wasn't going to go to jail if he said "no". His service is
voluntary, and as such wouldn't fit under Canada's refugee laws dealing
with forced service. In contrast, draft dodgers from Vietnam were
forced into military service, and as such could potentially qualify as
refugees under our laws.

2) There are 2 ways you can come to Canada - as a refugee (i.e. fleeing
persecution in your home country), or as an immigrant (i.e. you come
here on your own accord). No one, as in zero, of the Vietnam draft
dodgers entered Canada as refugees; they all came as immigrants. This
is an entirely different process, whereby you have to meet certain
educational/language/professional requirements. Under the laws at the
time (and for that matter our laws today) most American's easily meet
these requirements, so it was not very difficult for them to legally
enter our country as immigrants. Because Canada considers forced
military service illegal the US had no grounds to bring these people
back under our extradition treaties. In this case this man cannot apply
under our immigration laws - avoiding voluntary military service is
illegal in Canada, and as such the US could easily make an extradition
claim against him.

As far as I'm concerned he should be sent home ASAP - he asked to join
your military, and agreed to serve your country for a set term. If he
doesn't like it tough - we all have to do things we don't like at
times. And it certainly is not our responsibility (our, as in the
Canadian people) to help his shirk his responsibilities. If he doesn't
like the job, then maybe he shouldn't have joined.

Bryan

"Bryan Heit" <bjheit@NOSPAM.ucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:cp4v1c$hoj$1@news.ucalgary.ca...
> nitespark wrote:
>
(snip good post)

> As far as I'm concerned he should be sent home ASAP - he asked to join
> your military, and agreed to serve your country for a set term. If he
> doesn't like it tough - we all have to do things we don't like at
> times. And it certainly is not our responsibility (our, as in the
> Canadian people) to help his shirk his responsibilities. If he doesn't
> like the job, then maybe he shouldn't have joined.

Yeah, what he said.

On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 12:08:22 -0700, Bryan Heit
<bjheit@NOSPAM.ucalgary.ca> wrote:

<snip>
>As far as I'm concerned he should be sent home ASAP - he asked to join
>your military, and agreed to serve your country for a set term. If he
>doesn't like it tough - we all have to do things we don't like at
>times. And it certainly is not our responsibility (our, as in the
>Canadian people) to help his shirk his responsibilities. If he doesn't
>like the job, then maybe he shouldn't have joined.
>
>Bryan

Bingo.

This guy also got into the US military to take advantage of education
options. He did serve in Afghanistan, but, like you say, "tough." He
liked what the army could give to him, but bailed when he figured they
were asking too much in return.


---
Mike from Ottawa

On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 12:26:19 -0500, nitespark <nitespark@cox.net>
wrote:

>What about all the draft dodgers from the Vietnam era?

Interesting that about as many Canadians volunteered and served in the
American military in Vietnam as there were American dodgers in Canada.

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/5344/cvvm.html




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TheNewsGuy(Mike) wrote:

> On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 12:26:19 -0500, nitespark <nitespark@cox.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>What about all the draft dodgers from the Vietnam era?

Don't know wat you mean by that - President Jimmy Carter gave them all
amnesty, which allowed them to return to this country uncharged and free.
>
>
> Interesting that about as many Canadians volunteered and served in the
> American military in Vietnam as there were American dodgers in Canada.
>
> http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/5344/cvvm.html
>
>
>
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> + The News Guy(Mike) - Seinfeld Lists
> + (two mirrored sites)
> + http://membres.lycos.fr/tnguym
> + http://wave.prohosting.com/tnguym NOWTHISWORKS
> + All things Seinfeld; scripts, trivia, lists,
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"TheNewsGuy(Mike)" <tnguymNoSpamm@yaho.com> wrote in message
news:41c64fd8.23505770@news1.sympatico.ca...

> On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 12:26:19 -0500, nitespark <nitespark@cox.net>
> wrote:

> >What about all the draft dodgers from the Vietnam era?

> Interesting that about as many Canadians volunteered and served in the
> American military in Vietnam as there were American dodgers in Canada.

> http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/5344/cvvm.html

You guys definitely got the raw end of that deal.

"Scott" <pugetsounddiver@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:10sdmcv2lcusnbb@corp.supernews.com...
> "TheNewsGuy(Mike)" <tnguymNoSpamm@yaho.com> wrote in message
> news:41c64fd8.23505770@news1.sympatico.ca...
>
>> On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 12:26:19 -0500, nitespark <nitespark@cox.net>
>> wrote:
>
>> >What about all the draft dodgers from the Vietnam era?
>
>> Interesting that about as many Canadians volunteered and served in the
>> American military in Vietnam as there were American dodgers in Canada.
>
>> http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/5344/cvvm.html
>
> You guys definitely got the raw end of that deal.
>
>

Like you really care.