Re: What happens to a dis-armed populace.

Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick a écrit :

> "Froggy" <hub666@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1131469082.145485.8740@g43g2000cwa.googlegrou ps.com...
>
> But the message will be that you only get attention by burning a
> inordinately large number of cars (about 20-30,000 cars have been
> burned since the beginning of the years, *excluding* the recent
> events).
>
>
> BMWs, Mercedes, Renaults, Peugeots and Saabs.
>
> No big loss.

Of course you are aware that Saab is now US-owned?

That being said I do not think there are that many Saabs in these
suburbs.

Cheers,

Froggy

dazed and confuzzed wrote:
> Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick wrote:
>
>> France Imposes Curfews as Riots Continue to Spread
>> Junior High School, Nursery School, City Bus Burned on 12th Night of
>> Attacks
>> By JOCELYN GECKER, AP
>>
>> PARIS (Nov. 8) - France will impose curfews under a state-of-emergency
>> law
>> and call up police reservists to stop rioting that has spread out of
>> Paris'
>> suburbs and into nearly 300 cities and towns across the country, the
>> prime
>> minister said Monday, calling a return to order "our No. 1
>> responsibility."
>>
>> <picture>A French officer holds a shotgun shell recovered after police
>> came under fire in Grigny, south of Paris. **
>>
>> The tough new measures came as France's worst civil unrest in decades
>> entered a 12th night, with rioters in the southern city of Toulouse
>> setting
>> fire to a bus after sundown after ordering passengers off, and elsewhere
>> pelting police with gasoline bombs and rocks and torching a nursery
>> school.
>>
>> Outside the capital in Sevran, a junior high school was set ablaze,
>> while in
>> another Paris suburb, Vitry-sur-Seine, youths threw gasoline bombs at a
>> hospital, police said. No one was injured. Earlier, a 61-year-old retired
>> auto worker died of wounds from an attack last week, the first death
>> in the
>> violence.
>>
>> Rioting across the country left 1,173 cars burned in 226 towns overnight
>> Monday-Tuesday, figures that showed the intensity of violence had
>> decreased
>> from the previous night, police said Tuesday. Vandals burned 1,408 cars
>> overnight Sunday-Monday and attacks were reported in nearly 300 towns.
>>
>> Police made 330 arrests during night, National Police Chief Michel Gaudin
>> told a news conference. "The intensity of this violence is on the way
>> down,"
>> he said.
>>
>> Asked on TF1 television whether the army should be brought in, Prime
>> Minister Dominique de Villepin said, "We are not at that point."
>>
>> But "at each step, we will take the necessary measures to re-establish
>> order
>> very quickly throughout France," he said. "That is our prime duty:
>> ensuring
>> everyone's protection."
>>
>> Foreign governments warned their citizens to be careful in France.
>> Apparent
>> copycat attacks took place outside France, with five cars torched outside
>> the main train station in Brussels, Belgium. German police were
>> investigating the burning of five cars in Berlin.
>>
>> National police spokesman Patrick Hamon said there was a "considerable
>> decrease" in the number of incidents overnight into Tuesday in the Paris
>> region.
>>
>> The violence started Oct. 27 among youths in a northeastern Paris suburb
>> angry over the accidental deaths of two teenagers but has grown into a
>> nationwide insurrection.
>>
>> The mayhem is forcing France to confront anger building for decades in
>> neglected suburbs and among the French-born children of Arab and black
>> African immigrants. The teenagers whose deaths sparked the rioting
>> were of
>> Mauritanian and Tunisian descent. They were electrocuted as they hid from
>> police in a power substation, apparently thinking they were being chased.
>>
>> President Jacques Chirac, in private comments more conciliatory than his
>> warnings Sunday that rioters would be caught and punished,
>> acknowledged in a
>> meeting Monday with Latvian President Vaira Vike-Freiberga that France
>> has
>> not integrated immigrant youths, she said.
>>
>> Chirac deplored the "ghettoization of youths of African or North African
>> origin" and recognized "the incapacity of French society to fully accept
>> them," said Vike-Freiberga.
>>
>> France "has not done everything possible for these youths, supported
>> them so
>> they feel understood, heard and respected," Chirac added, noting that
>> unemployment runs as high as 40 percent in some suburbs, four times the
>> national rate, according to Vike-Freiberga.
>>
>> In violence Monday, vandals burned churches, schools and businesses, and
>> injured 36 police officers in clashes around the country, setting a
>> new high
>> for arson and violence, said France's national police chief, Michel
>> Gaudin.
>>
>> "This spread, with a sort of shock wave spreading across the country,
>> shows
>> up in the number of towns affected," Gaudin said.
>>
>> In terms of material destruction, the unrest is France's worst since
>> World
>> War II - and never has rioting struck so many different French cities
>> simultaneously, said security expert Sebastian Roche, a director of
>> research
>> at the state-funded National Center for Scientific Research.
>>
>> Villepin said curfews will be imposed under a 1955 law that allows the
>> declaring of a state of emergency in parts or all of France. The law was
>> passed to curb unrest in Algeria during the war that led to its
>> independence.
>>
>> He said 1,500 reservists were being called up to reinforce the 8,000
>> police
>> and gendarmes already deployed. The Cabinet will meet Tuesday to
>> authorize
>> curfews "wherever it is necessary," he said.
>>
>> "The multiplying acts of destruction, the destruction of schools and
>> sports
>> centers, thousands of cars set on fire, all of this is unacceptable and
>> inexcusable," he said. "To all in France who are watching me, who are
>> disturbed by this, who are shocked, who want to see a return to
>> normalcy, a
>> return to security, the state's response - I say it tonight forcefully -
>> will be firm and just."
>>
>> Villepin said "organized criminal networks" are backing the violence and
>> youths taking part are treating it as a "game," trying to outdo each
>> other.
>> He did not rule out the possibility that radical Islamists are involved,
>> saying: "That element must not be neglected." France's community of
>> Muslims,
>> at some 5 million, is western Europe's largest.
>>
>> Local government officials will be able to impose curfews "if they
>> think it
>> will be useful to permit a return to calm and ensure the protection of
>> residents. That is our No. 1 responsibility," the prime minister said.
>>
>> A Socialist opposition leader, Francois Hollande, said his party would
>> closely watch to make sure the curfew law is applied properly.
>>
>> "This law cannot be applied everywhere, and it cannot be long-lasting,"
>> Hollande said. He said Villepin should have put more emphasis on
>> improving
>> life in tough neighborhoods and said the premier's proposals were vague.
>>
>> Villepin said he wanted to speed up a $35.5 billion urban redevelopment
>> plan, triple the number of merit scholarships for talented students and
>> offer jobs, training or internships to disadvantaged young people.
>>
>> "We must offer them hope and a future," he said.
>>
>> But nearly 600 people were in custody Monday night, and fast-track trials
>> were being used to punish rioters.
>>
>> France's biggest Muslim fundamentalist organization, the Union for
>> Islamic
>> Organizations of France, issued a religious decree against the
>> violence. It
>> prohibited all those "who seek divine grace from taking part in any
>> action
>> that blindly strikes private or public property or can harm others."
>>
>> The first fatality was identified as 61-year-old Jean-Jacques Le
>> Chenadec.
>> He was trying to extinguish a trash can fire Friday at his housing
>> project
>> in the northeastern Paris suburb of Stains when an attacker caught him by
>> surprise and beat him into a coma, police said.
>>
>> "They have to stop this stupidity," his widow, Nicole, told Associated
>> Press
>> Television News of the rioting. "It's going nowhere."
>>
>> Associated Press Writers John Leicester
>>
>> **Editor's note (that would be me).
>>
>> Two French police officers wounded the the BIRDSHOT aforementioned as
>> "totally harmless" by Canadian Rec.scuban.
>>
>>
>>
> Like I said, Muslim.
>
> Popeye: I left your original post uncut so that those who doubted could
> read it again.
>
>
>

Religion still has nothing to do with it.

--
Michael Wolf

-----

Cthulhu For President.
Why settle for the lesser evil?

remove stopspam to reply

dazed and confuzzed a écrit :

> Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick wrote:

> > Associated Press Writers John Leicester
> >
> > **Editor's note (that would be me).
> >
> > Two French police officers wounded the the BIRDSHOT aforementioned as
> > "totally harmless" by Canadian Rec.scuban.
> >
> >
> >
> Like I said, Muslim.
>

Not all of them are muslims (most probably are not).

Most of them are French citizens, born in France, though a large number
(not all of them, either) have parents or grandparents who were not.

And the thing they are longing for is not making France an Islamist
state. Apparently, what they typically want is to be a normal part of
society, being granted an equal chance of success in life, proper
access to higher education, no discrimination when looking for a job
and when trying to enter in a nightclub etc. You had a similar
situation with black americans, I believe.

For better or worse, the policies consisting of building sports courts,
calling any graffiti art, and offering third-rate state-subsidized
jobs, no longer do the trick.

Cheers,

Froggy

"Froggy" wrote

>> Like I said, Muslim.

>Not all of them are muslims (most probably are not).

The news here says most are muslims.

Michael Wolf wrote:
> dazed and confuzzed wrote:

>>>
>> Like I said, Muslim.
>>
>> Popeye: I left your original post uncut so that those who doubted
>> could read it again.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Religion still has nothing to do with it.

Perhaps not. However, it DOES seem to be a common factor.
>


--
“The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their
neutrality in times of moral crisis.”

dazed and confuzzed wrote:
> Michael Wolf wrote:
> > dazed and confuzzed wrote:
>
> >>>
> >> Like I said, Muslim.
> >>
> >> Popeye: I left your original post uncut so that those who doubted
> >> could read it again.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Religion still has nothing to do with it.
>
> Perhaps not. However, it DOES seem to be a common factor.

If you want to look for a common factor, being young, living in
decrepit suburban housing blocks, or having parents or grand-parents
who immigrated from Africa (either North Africa or Sub-saharian
Africa), all seem to be much more relevant common factors (actually the
three combined).

So deliberately choosing to term them all "muslims" because some of
these hooligans are indeed muslim, though not all of them are, though a
majority of muslims do not partake or approve of these, and though no
religious motive was invoked, shows a very biased approach.

Cheers,

Froggy

Lee Bell wrote:

> "Froggy" wrote
>
>
>>>Like I said, Muslim.
>
>
>>Not all of them are muslims (most probably are not).
>
>
> The news here says most are muslims.


This coocurrence is not by chance. It's a hen and egg thing.

Matthias

Froggy wrote:

> dazed and confuzzed wrote:
>
>>Michael Wolf wrote:
>>
>>>dazed and confuzzed wrote:
>>
>>>>Like I said, Muslim.
>>>>
>>>>Popeye: I left your original post uncut so that those who doubted
>>>>could read it again.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>Religion still has nothing to do with it.
>>
>>Perhaps not. However, it DOES seem to be a common factor.
>
>
> If you want to look for a common factor, being young, living in
> decrepit suburban housing blocks, or having parents or grand-parents
> who immigrated from Africa (either North Africa or Sub-saharian
> Africa), all seem to be much more relevant common factors (actually the
> three combined).
>
> So deliberately choosing to term them all "muslims" because some of
> these hooligans are indeed muslim, though not all of them are, though a
> majority of muslims do not partake or approve of these, and though no
> religious motive was invoked, shows a very biased approach.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Froggy
>
As I said, you may be correct here. However, (and perhaps it is just the
press that I have seen) it seems to be at least a significant part of
how the rioters identify themselves. Culture and all that.

--
“The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their
neutrality in times of moral crisis.”

Lee Bell wrote:
> "Froggy" wrote
>
>
>>>Like I said, Muslim.
>
>
>>Not all of them are muslims (most probably are not).
>
>
> The news here says most are muslims.
>
>

They may be muslims but religion has nothing to do with it.

--
Michael Wolf

-----

Cthulhu For President.
Why settle for the lesser evil?

remove stopspam to reply

Michael Wolf wrote:
> Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick wrote:
>> "Froggy" <hub666@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1131469082.145485.8740@g43g2000cwa.googlegrou ps.com...
>>
>> But the message will be that you only get attention by burning a
>> inordinately large number of cars (about 20-30,000 cars have been
>> burned since the beginning of the years, *excluding* the recent
>> events).
>>
>>
>> BMWs, Mercedes, Renaults, Peugeots and Saabs.
>>
>> No big loss.
>>
>>
>
> You forgot Citroen...

just lemons anyway...

>