Force Fins forces Rodale's Scuba Diving to pay for scuba equipment ratings scam

"Dan Nafe" <dan@scuba-training.net> wrote in message
news:dan-6A93B7.16010513112003@newsgroups.bellsouth.net...
> In article <5tRsb.758$rV.671@bignews5.bellsouth.net>,
> "Dan Volker" <dvolker@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> > "Schmoe" <jschmoeleg@optonline.net> wrote in message
> [snip]
> > > Dan, you seem to know a lot about fins so I'll ask you directly, if
you
> > > don't mind. I want to replace my fins. Solid swimmer and in good
shape,
> [snip]
> > I would say try Picasso Black Teams ( around $130 ) if you can find
them.
> > If you have the budget ( $around $300+), the Omer Carbon C4's would be
the
> > most awesome---they would be like using a Lamborgini instead of a Rent a
> > Wreck ( ie., normal scuba fins). But with the C4's, you will need to do
> > head first entry's, or do a giant stride with a half twist in mid air to
end
> > up with a back flop--not so hard really. You won;t want to overflex
fins
> > that cost as much as the C4's. They return far more thrust per kick than
> > anything you can imagine.
> >
> > The number to the distributor in Virginia beach is 1-800-853-1911.
>
>
> Ha, I remember, back in the day, when Volker and I were the only ones on
> the boat with steel cylinders and long fins. 'bout 1990, I think...
>
> Still good choices
>
> Dan
> dan@scuba-training.net
> http://www.scuba-training.net

uh oh - a steel cylinder and wet suit thread??

In article <hkRsb.726$rV.321@bignews5.bellsouth.net>,
Dan Volker <dvolker@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>"de Valois" <devalois@nailedandused.com> wrote in message
>news:bp0ivt0i3t@drn.newsguy.com...
>> Dan Volker left this mess on Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:06:47 -0500 for The Way
>to
>> clean up:
>> >
>> >
>> >"Dive News" <always@on.topic.always> wrote in message
>> >news:3fb390ee$0$27693$45beb828@newscene.com...
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Force Fins forces Rodale's Scuba Diving to pay for scuba equipment
>ratings
>> >> scam
>> >>
>> >> http://www.cdnn.info/industry/i031113/i031113.html
>> >
>> >I have always considered Rodales to be among the most prostituted and
>> >deceitful of all scuba magazines, in gear discussions.
>> >
>>
>> Question: what is the better alternative then?
>>
>> I agree, and Rodale's obviously does, as well, that ad dollars drive their
>> reviews, however, they are also about the only game in town and so if you
>want
>> factual information, as sparse as it is, you have to go to Rodale's and
>read
>> between the lines.
>>
>> Consumer Reports don't do dive gear.
>>
>> Tao te Carl
>> "It takes a village to have an idiot." - Carl (c) 2003
>>
>> (Kudos to Cap'n Jim Wyatt for this link) BEFORE you ask a dumb-ass
>question
>> here...http://www.speakeasy.org/~neilco/bart.gif
>
>
>For gear, the only way you can really expect good information, is to find
>shops that will let you demo gear on dives. In snow skiing, this is the way
>things are done--skiers "expect" to be able to demo critical gear like boots
>and skiis.

Frequently, in skiing, such demos are FREE. You just have to be there when
the truck is full of the skis, boots, etc.

>But in diving, the consumer is so hoodwinked by the manufacturers
>and shops, that they don't realize that they "ought" to be able to try gear
>before getting stuck with it.

Yep.

--
--
Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist
http://www.denninger.net Tired of spam at your company? LOOK HERE!
http://childrens-justice.org Working for family and children's rights
http://diversunion.org LOG IN AND GET YOUR TANK STICKERS TODAY!

"Dan Nafe" <dan@scuba-training.net> wrote in message
news:dan-6A93B7.16010513112003@newsgroups.bellsouth.net...
> In article <5tRsb.758$rV.671@bignews5.bellsouth.net>,
> "Dan Volker" <dvolker@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> > "Schmoe" <jschmoeleg@optonline.net> wrote in message
> [snip]
> > > Dan, you seem to know a lot about fins so I'll ask you directly, if
you
> > > don't mind. I want to replace my fins. Solid swimmer and in good
shape,
> [snip]
> > I would say try Picasso Black Teams ( around $130 ) if you can find
them.
> > If you have the budget ( $around $300+), the Omer Carbon C4's would be
the
> > most awesome---they would be like using a Lamborgini instead of a Rent a
> > Wreck ( ie., normal scuba fins). But with the C4's, you will need to do
> > head first entry's, or do a giant stride with a half twist in mid air to
end
> > up with a back flop--not so hard really. You won;t want to overflex
fins
> > that cost as much as the C4's. They return far more thrust per kick than
> > anything you can imagine.
> >
> > The number to the distributor in Virginia beach is 1-800-853-1911.
>
>
> Ha, I remember, back in the day, when Volker and I were the only ones on
> the boat with steel cylinders and long fins. 'bout 1990, I think...
>
> Still good choices
>
> Dan



Hey Dan,
How are you doing. Haven't seen you, since we were all trying to avoid
Ashley on tech dives she didn't belong on
What are you up to these days?
Regards,
Dan V

In article <2GSsb.1030$rV.145@bignews5.bellsouth.net>,
Dan Volker <dvolker@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>
>> uh oh - a steel cylinder and wet suit thread??
>>
>The old steel 72's are/were light. Actually much nicer to dive with than an
>80 aluminum.
>I don't think you'll see enough of these today to start a thread with
>
>Regards,
>Dan

Ssshhhh.... I've got a nice small collection of them that I hope to make
into a large one! :)

They make nifty light doubles, balance well, and are awesome as singles if
you're not a gas pig.

My g/f loves them too, as she HATES the weight belt, and gets to lose nearly
all of it with one of these.

--
--
Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist
http://www.denninger.net Tired of spam at your company? LOOK HERE!
http://childrens-justice.org Working for family and children's rights
http://diversunion.org LOG IN AND GET YOUR TANK STICKERS TODAY!

Dan Volker wrote:

>
> For gear, the only way you can really expect good information, is to find
> shops that will let you demo gear on dives. In snow skiing, this is the way
> things are done--skiers "expect" to be able to demo critical gear like boots
> and skiis. But in diving, the consumer is so hoodwinked by the manufacturers
> and shops, that they don't realize that they "ought" to be able to try gear
> before getting stuck with it.
> Find a shop carrying the gear you are interested in, and try to talk them
> into a demo with credit card deposit--the credit card deposit for if you
> ruin something.
> And it would be worth paying significantly more than a normal "rental" fee,
> for the chance to find out if some particular gear is as good as you have
> heard--or as good as it "looks"
>
> Or, find a buddy who has the gear you are interested in, and see if you can
> try their stuff. Blind faith in manufacturers and dive shops has gotten us
> garbage like twin jets and $80 snorkels. Rodales just looked at the whoring
> going on already, and tried to become better liars. I think they succeeded.

As usual, I agree with Dan 100%!

I have found that most shops will let a regular customer try gear. Other
shops will charge a rental fee, applicable to the gear if you buy. But
you always have to ask.

"Dan Volker" wrote

> The old steel 72's are/were light. Actually much nicer to dive with than
an
> 80 aluminum.I don't think you'll see enough of these today to start a
thread with

Hmmm. I can't speak to all steel 72s, but mine were as close to neutral
when empty as it's possible to be, making them considerably less buoyant
than the standard aluminum 80s that pretty much made them obsolete.
Catalina compact 80s and, presumably, the new neutral Luxfers, have
essentially the same in water characteristics.

Lee

"Lee Bell" wrote
> "de Valois" wrote
> > Scuba Booby doesn't report news. He parrots what he finds on other people's
> > websites, and passes them off as his "new expose".
>
> So? As long as his information is factual, who cares where he got it. I
> don't much like his spamming the group, but I generally find his articles to
> be interesting. Who am I to fault somebody that does the research for me?

If he took the extra twenty seconds to post to each group
seperately he might be a lot more welcome. The big cross-post
is trademarked spammer and the groups have a very different
ethos.

Also does he 'find' them on many web-sites? I admit I
killfiled him long ago but I thought he was a CDNN
sock puppet to the point where Suunto and Mares, as
CDNN sponsors, are on my 'NO BUY' list.

nigelH

"Schmoe" wrote in
> The only truly objective magazine online or off that I'm aware of is
> Undercurrent. It's a Not-for profit org.>

Gack!

Undercurrent has long ago been exposed for a profit making and advertisement
selling operation that it is.

Check out rec.scuba archives.

UC actively solicited ads for their internet version, placing the money for
those ads in "Ben's" left pocket. Of course, when the holy virgin printed
version was mailed out, stamps were never bought with THAT money. "Ben" used
the money from his OTHER left pocket.

No, UC is for sale as well. Ben finaly gurgled out a Clintonesque waffle a
number of monrths after the fact.

Sorry I had to repeat myself, there's always somebody new who believes Ben's
fairy tales.

There is no truth for sale. The truth is free.

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:44:10 -0500, "Dan Volker"
<dvolker@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>

>Make no mistake, CDNN is just as prostituted and controlled by special
>interests as is the typical print rag in diving. If anything, they have more
>agenda's than other magazines, including lunatic fringe groups, which few on
>this NG could stomach.
>

Still pissed off because CDNN blew the whistle on your beloved Peter
Hughes and his DeathTrap Dancers? If you really believe CDNN is
controlled by special interests and lunatic fringe groups, name them.

In article <bf939afa6e2baaf4f7fe1cc96b7720b7@news.teranews.co m>,
Slow Death <123@bioforus.uv> wrote:

<SNIP> If you really believe CDNN is
> controlled by special interests and lunatic fringe groups, name them.

AH -- how about Psycho Killers and Slow Death?? no wait - iguess they
do sound mainstream

--
--Chandler --
May Hog be your boatman when you reach the River Styx