Force Fins forces Rodale's Scuba Diving to pay for scuba equipment ratings scam

"Slow Death" <123@bioforus.uv> wrote in message
news:cfbbb1f237892779549042b1008fa92d@news.teranew s.com...
> On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:53:31 -0500, "Dan Volker"
> <dvolker@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
> >
> >Every time I have tried to find out anything about CDNN and how it
gathers
> >its "news" stories, I have found agendas running first, and PR stories
> >masquerading as news, following.
> >Give it a rest.
> >Dan V
> >
>
> No surprise you could not name any special interests nor lunatic
> fringe groups that control CDNN. There aren't any. It's just part of
> your ongoing con-game to smear people who got it done while you, Holt,
> Slate, Torode and Abernethy self-destructed and lost your credibility
> with a dirty tricks campaign that failed to persuade the public we
> should all line up and condone harassing marine wildlife by commercial
> dive operators who even attempted to equate a ban on shark feeding
> with 9/11. Talk about ground zero stupidity! CDNN whipped your ass
> and hung you out to dry. YOU LOST! Shark feeding is illegal in the
> state of Florida. Get over it bitch and stop your pathetic sniveling,
> which only serves to persuade those is the middle like me that CDNN,
> the Human Society, National Geographic, Reef Relief and a dozen other
> "lunatic fringe groups" are absolutely right.

Right...my con game....my biggest contribution to that issue was shooting a
film of the Lake Worth pier, with its hundreds of fisherman, and the huge
number of struggling fish on the end of fishing lines--right next to where
children are swimming. I had an especially nice shot of the fillet stations
along the pier, where the fisherman would cut up their fish, and blood and
fish parts would be instantly hosed right into the water less than 15 feet
away from a group of 7 and 8 year old children. This "chumming" was almost
non-stop. I then had interviews with the fisherman, about how they hooked
all types of sharks here regularly....and an interview with a lifeguard
saying he really thought fishing by the swimming area made his job of
protecting the swimmers much more difficult than it should be.
I was against a "real" threat to beach going swimmers, while CDNN supported
fishing, ignored the pier issue, and then CDNN fought to take divers out of
the "save the shark" mentality guys like Abernethy were creating, as it was
hurting sportfisherman and shark fisherman.

Slowdeath, you might want to pass on about now


Dan V

You distorted the intent of my post. I said that Rodale's takes its advertising
revenue, and pays salaries to reporters to go out and get news stories, where
Scuba Booby parrots things he finds on other websites.

And we have no way of knowing whether what Booby reports is accurate and factual
or not. In many ways, CDNN sounds like some gossip mill that repeats a story
just for the sensational effect, like the National Enquirer or the Star. They
don't have to be held to a higher standard, they feel, because they're not
responsible for the original story. But damned if they haven't been caught out
passing on lies from time to time.

Force Fin left this mess on Fri, 14 Nov 2003 03:37:55 GMT for The Way to clean
up:
>
>Personally, I'm not convinced the motivation was ad dollars. Rodale
>confirmed they have no test data or
>documentation to support results published in the review of Force Fin and
>Extra Force Fin. And, Nature's Wing Fin Design, LLC contracted with the
>author of the ... reviews "for approximately four years .... to conduct
>test dives."
>
>On the other side of the coin, we requested an independent third party
>observer present if we were to submit fins for testing. Our request was
>denied.
>
>Susanne Chess
>Force Fin
>
>"de Valois" <devalois@nailedandused.com> wrote in message
>news:bp0j4e0ikh@drn.newsguy.com...
>> Scuba Booby doesn't report news. He parrots what he finds on other
>people's
>> websites, and passes them off as his "new expose".
>>
>> He's worse than Rodale's, in effect, because at least Rodale's takes that
>ad
>> money and pays salaries to reporters to go out and get information,
>whatever
>> bias they may have.
>>
>> belt left this mess on Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:20:41 GMT for The Way to clean
>up:
>> >
>> >Nice article..I wondered.
>> >interesting..at first, I thought the CDDN site was an "angry-hippy" site
>> >after following several handy links. But once I made it to the home
>> >page--which is at the end of the bar---I saw that they have many
>informative
>> >articles.
>> >
>> >But, am I the only one who noticed that all of their sponsors are also
>> >listed in the "Editors Choice"?
>> >
>> >I could be making a mountain out of a molehill---but sponsor means
>"paid".
>> >Editors choice implies an honest preference. Perhaps they were lucky
>enough
>> >to have every one of their sponsors as providers of the highest quality
>> >services. Not many companies are wealthy enough to make that
>distinction.
>> >
>> >Also, I found an article on there that trashing PADI like it wasnt worth
>> >anything, (given that the "dive in 15 min" book sounded odd).
>> >
>> >
>> >"Dive News" <always@on.topic.always> wrote in message
>> >news:3fb390ee$0$27693$45beb828@newscene.com...
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Force Fins forces Rodale's Scuba Diving to pay for scuba equipment
>ratings
>> >> scam
>> >>
>> >> http://www.cdnn.info/industry/i031113/i031113.html
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Tao te Carl
>> "It takes a village to have an idiot." - Carl (c) 2003
>>
>> (Kudos to Cap'n Jim Wyatt for this link) BEFORE you ask a dumb-ass
>question
>> here...http://www.speakeasy.org/~neilco/bart.gif
>>
>
>

Tao te Carl
"It takes a village to have an idiot." - Carl (c) 2003

(Kudos to Cap'n Jim Wyatt for this link) BEFORE you ask a dumb-ass question
here...http://www.speakeasy.org/~neilco/bart.gif

On 14 Nov 2003 06:34:52 -0800, de Valois <devalois@nailedandused.com>
wrote:

>You distorted the intent of my post. I said that Rodale's takes its advertising
>revenue, and pays salaries to reporters to go out and get news stories, where
>Scuba Booby parrots things he finds on other websites.
>
>And we have no way of knowing whether what Booby reports is accurate and factual
>or not. In many ways, CDNN sounds like some gossip mill that repeats a story
>just for the sensational effect, like the National Enquirer or the Star. They
>don't have to be held to a higher standard, they feel, because they're not
>responsible for the original story. But damned if they haven't been caught out
>passing on lies from time to time.
>

You don't know what you're talking about and misrepresenting the
people who work at Cyber Diver as "Scuba Booby" is equivalent to
Rodale's lying about Force Fins. You industry whores need to get your
act together. Want CDNN original material? I'd be happy to provide
it to you but obviously that's not what you're really looking for.
You're attempting to justify Rodale's "pay me I'm yours" bullshit.
Like I said before, go back to the Rodale's industry controlled
message board and do your industry whore cheer-leading there. After
all, that's where you get your paycheck, isn't it bitch?

"Dan Volker" <dvolker@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:rDOsb.109$oo.107@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
>
>.............. If anything, they have more
> agenda's than other magazines, including lunatic fringe groups, which few
on
> this NG could stomach.
>

I think you're underestimating the lunatic fringe on this froup.

Dave.

"de Valois" <devalois@nailedandused.com> wrote in message
news:bp2omv01eqj@drn.newsguy.com...
> Dan Volker left this mess on Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:50:15 -0500 for The Way
to

> >And there is always rec.scuba for opinions----and for something more
> >meaningful, try to dive with someone from rec.scuba who has the equipment
> >you are interested in, and who will let you try it. This might be your
best
> >tool.
> >
>
> I agree, with the codicil that you again will have to read between the
lines.
> Here, there's an awful lot of shit-stirring that goes on just to create
> mischief.
>
> Tao te Carl
> "It takes a village to have an idiot." - Carl (c) 2003
>
> (Kudos to Cap'n Jim Wyatt for this link) BEFORE you ask a dumb-ass
question
> here...http://www.speakeasy.org/~neilco/bart.gif


One more reason I put little faith in the Dive shops and MFG's for fair gear
reviews----since there are virtually no "Demos" going on out there, its very
hard for the dive consumer to find out when they are fed BS. In snow skiing,
if a boot manufacturer made an amazing claim, skiers would demo the product
right away, and the backlash from deceitful reviews would be nasty...

Regards,
Dan V

Yes and no. Four of the five original causes of action were dismissed on a
technicality. The judge chose to apply the one year statute of limitations
for defamation to all causes of action except the breach of contract. The
actions about which we complained spanned years.

I take it that you picked up that information from Dane Farnum's statement.
Did you notice that he now describes the tests as the "only comparative"
instead of "objective and unbiased"?

Truth Prevailed and that's a win for everyone.

Susanne Chess
Force Fin


"de Valois" <devalois@nailedandused.com> wrote in message
news:bp2ou001foc@drn.newsguy.com...
> By the way, Susanne, isn't it true that Force Fins only saw a $9,000
settlement
> in this case?
>
> So basically, you ended up with less than you sued for. And I think, if
I'm not
> mistaken, four out of the five charges you guys sued on were thrown out,
were
> they not?
>
> That's hardly the "victory" that Scuba Booby is exploiting, now is it?
>
> Force Fin left this mess on Fri, 14 Nov 2003 03:42:58 GMT for The Way to
clean
> up:
> >
> >Dan would have everyone in fins as long as his legs. I'm not dishing free
> >diving fins. They are very elegant. Its just I prefer a fin 1/2 the size
of
> >other fins, 1/4 of the size of Dan's fins that does the job as well or
> >better. And, I've been in some fast currents and kept up with some the
best
> >of them without trying. Oh, I'm not out of shape. I swim a minimum of 5
> >miles a week and so does Bob Evans.
> >
> >Susanne Chess
> >Force Fin
> >
> >"Schmoe" <jschmoeleg@optonline.net> wrote in message
> >news:uSQsb.12348$p%6.3409650@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv. net...
> >> "Dan Volker" <dvolker@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> >> news:rDOsb.109$oo.107@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
> >> >
> >> <snip>
> >>
> >> > Make no mistake, CDNN is just as prostituted and controlled by
special
> >> > interests as is the typical print rag in diving. If anything, they
have
> >> more
> >> > agenda's than other magazines, including lunatic fringe groups, which
> >few
> >> on
> >> > this NG could stomach.
> >> >
> >>
> >> The only truly objective magazine online or off that I'm aware of is
> >> Undercurrent. It's a Not-for profit org.
> >>
> >> Dan, you seem to know a lot about fins so I'll ask you directly, if you
> >> don't mind. I want to replace my fins. Solid swimmer and in good shape,
> >only
> >> dive 4-5 days per year. I'd like a powerful fin that works well on
drift
> >> dives and my current fins are hard as rocks and old. Suggestions and
> >> recommendations are appreciated.
> >>
> >> Cheers!
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> Tao te Carl
> "It takes a village to have an idiot." - Carl (c) 2003
>
> (Kudos to Cap'n Jim Wyatt for this link) BEFORE you ask a dumb-ass
question
> here...http://www.speakeasy.org/~neilco/bart.gif
>

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:08:39 +0000 (UTC), "Nigel Hewitt"
<nigelh@REMOVETHISnigelhewitt.net> wrote:

>"Lee Bell" wrote
>> "de Valois" wrote
>> > Scuba Booby doesn't report news. He parrots what he finds on other people's
>> > websites, and passes them off as his "new expose".
>>
>> So? As long as his information is factual, who cares where he got it. I
>> don't much like his spamming the group, but I generally find his articles to
>> be interesting. Who am I to fault somebody that does the research for me?
>
>If he took the extra twenty seconds to post to each group
>seperately he might be a lot more welcome. The big cross-post
>is trademarked spammer and the groups have a very different
>ethos.
>
>Also does he 'find' them on many web-sites? I admit I
>killfiled him long ago but I thought he was a CDNN
>sock puppet to the point where Suunto and Mares, as
>CDNN sponsors, are on my 'NO BUY' list.
>
>nigelH
>

Just bought USD $2500 worth of Mares and Suunto because they support
CDNN. I know it's difficult for islanders but why not dump the tired
old limey territorialism bit and get hip to the EU and the global
beat! It's going to happen whether you like it or not.

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:08:13 GMT, "Force Fin" <info@forcefin.com>
wrote:

>Yes and no. Four of the five original causes of action were dismissed on a
>technicality. The judge chose to apply the one year statute of limitations
>for defamation to all causes of action except the breach of contract. The
>actions about which we complained spanned years.
>
>I take it that you picked up that information from Dane Farnum's statement.
>Did you notice that he now describes the tests as the "only comparative"
>instead of "objective and unbiased"?
>
>Truth Prevailed and that's a win for everyone.
>
>Susanne Chess
>Force Fin
>
>

Ignore "de Valois" Suzanne. He's a name caller and on retainer to
Rodales. About the $4 to $5 million in damages, GO FOR IT!

VERY satisfied 'Extra Force Fins' owner

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 17:17:13 GMT, "Lee Bell"
<leebell@ix.remove.netcom.com> wrote:

>There were a lot of people,
>with a lot of money at stake, claiming that feeding sharks did not change
>their behavior and would not cause them to associate people with food. At
>best, they were wrong. At worst, they were intentionally lying.
>
>Lee
>

Worse than "worst", the shark feeders ran all over Florida smearing
the pro-ban coalition as "stooges" and "lunatics" and "fishing
industry special interests". That "discredit your opponents" strategy
backfired because anybody could understand it simply wasn't true. The
fact that Dan is still attempting to foment that anti-CDNN crap speaks
volumes about why the feeders lost and why they will fail to reverse
the ban no matter how much money PADI/DEMA pumps into the "let's feed
sharks to save sharks" bullshit.

"Slow Death" <123@bioforus.uv> wrote in message
news:9a145716fe2a3d559927e54dc66648e9@news.teranew s.com...
> On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 17:17:13 GMT, "Lee Bell"
> <leebell@ix.remove.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> >There were a lot of people,
> >with a lot of money at stake, claiming that feeding sharks did not change
> >their behavior and would not cause them to associate people with food.
At
> >best, they were wrong. At worst, they were intentionally lying.
> >
> >Lee
> >
>
> Worse than "worst", the shark feeders ran all over Florida smearing
> the pro-ban coalition as "stooges" and "lunatics" and "fishing
> industry special interests". That "discredit your opponents" strategy
> backfired because anybody could understand it simply wasn't true. The
> fact that Dan is still attempting to foment that anti-CDNN crap speaks
> volumes about why the feeders lost and why they will fail to reverse
> the ban no matter how much money PADI/DEMA pumps into the "let's feed
> sharks to save sharks" bullshit.

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.....Just keep spitting out the same misdirected
information.
How about actually DOING something, and take up arms against the chumming at
fishing piers---shore fishing and pier fishing is a huge threat to nearby
swimmers --why don't you and CDNN care about this enough to give it some
news coverage--at least comprable to what you did with the dive based shark
feeds...If you actually went after the shore and Pier fishing, I'd have to
take your side on an issue--and that would be "horrible" for me


Dan V