OW cert = 5 confined + 4 open

In looking over the PADI reqs for OW cert,
I noticed that it specifies 5 confined + 4 open dives.

Our youth group has completed the 5 pool dive sessions,
but will only have a scheduled day in the summer
for the OW dive portion....
Do you really need 4 separate dives in that single day,
or is it more of the skills & knowledge demonstrated ?

How do they accomplish this same level of proficiency
at these dive resorts ? revenue vs safety... different topic.

I guess you can pretty much do what you want with a "dive session",
vs have the PADI reqs stipulate a number of "hours" in the water,
like when I was going after my pilot license..... 40 hrs of flight training

P.Schuman wrote:
> In looking over the PADI reqs for OW cert,
> I noticed that it specifies 5 confined + 4 open dives.

As per ANSI Z86.3 (& successor).


> Our youth group has completed the 5 pool dive sessions,
> but will only have a scheduled day in the summer
> for the OW dive portion...

Only a single day in which to do 4 checkout dives?



> Do you really need 4 separate dives in that single day,
> or is it more of the skills & knowledge demonstrated ?

The 4 are intended to be used for skill demonstrations, which should
include gear set-up & teardown, which makes multiple days useful.



> How do they accomplish this same level of proficiency
> at these dive resorts ?

Generally, they do the 4 checkout dives over 2 days.

> revenue vs safety... different topic.

Indeed, for 4 'bouncy' novice dives in a single day, and probably an
abbreviated day at that...



> I guess you can pretty much do what you want with a "dive session",
> vs have the PADI reqs stipulate a number of "hours" in the water,

There used to be minimum standards for each checkout dive...like a
minimum of 20 minutes, depth of 20 & 60 ft min/max, etc.



> like when I was going after my pilot license..... 40 hrs of flight training


-hh

P.Schuman wrote

> In looking over the PADI reqs for OW cert,
> I noticed that it specifies 5 confined + 4 open dives.
>
> Our youth group has completed the 5 pool dive sessions,
> but will only have a scheduled day in the summer
> for the OW dive portion....
> Do you really need 4 separate dives in that single day,
> or is it more of the skills & knowledge demonstrated ?
> How do they accomplish this same level of proficiency
> at these dive resorts ? revenue vs safety... different topic.
> I guess you can pretty much do what you want with a "dive session",
> vs have the PADI reqs stipulate a number of "hours" in the water,
> like when I was going after my pilot license..... 40 hrs of flight
> training

Here in S. Florida, they routinely do all 4 dives the same day, two in the
morning, two in the afternoon. The first two are primarily focused on
demonstration of skills you should have learned in the pool sessions. If
you didn't, it's probably too late to learn them at this point. The second
two are normally more focused on enjoying diving.

Lee

"Lee Bell" <pleebell@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:qKG%h.25245$XU4.16733@bignews8.bellsouth.net. ..
> P.Schuman wrote
>
> > In looking over the PADI reqs for OW cert,
> > I noticed that it specifies 5 confined + 4 open dives.
> >
> > Our youth group has completed the 5 pool dive sessions,
> > but will only have a scheduled day in the summer
> > for the OW dive portion....
> > Do you really need 4 separate dives in that single day,
> > or is it more of the skills & knowledge demonstrated ?
> > How do they accomplish this same level of proficiency
> > at these dive resorts ? revenue vs safety... different topic.
> > I guess you can pretty much do what you want with a "dive session",
> > vs have the PADI reqs stipulate a number of "hours" in the water,
> > like when I was going after my pilot license..... 40 hrs of flight
> > training
>
> Here in S. Florida, they routinely do all 4 dives the same day, two in the
> morning, two in the afternoon. The first two are primarily focused on
> demonstration of skills you should have learned in the pool sessions. If
> you didn't, it's probably too late to learn them at this point. The second
> two are normally more focused on enjoying diving.
>
> Lee
>

The pool time was Sunday mornings - from 9 to 12 - on 3 different sessions
with class time for discussion on different days.
So... they probably have had a good level of the basics,
and I would guess the same level of attention from the instructor
will be used for the OW session...

Tougher to get to an OW enjoyable place here in the midwest,
as the flowers just started peeking up and making sure the snow is gone.
http://www.haighquarry.com/user-temperature.php

Guess we'll be looking at a 7mm suit to keep warm...

P.Schuman wrote

> The pool time was Sunday mornings - from 9 to 12 - on 3 different sessions
> with class time for discussion on different days.
> So... they probably have had a good level of the basics,
> and I would guess the same level of attention from the instructor
> will be used for the OW session...

Most instructors who are diligent in the classroom and pool, are diligent in
open water too, but the purpose of the open water dives, in my experience,
is a bit different. It's more to see them demonstrate their ability
individually while still under some supervision. It's like a solo flight,
the last step before they're certified as competent to dive independent of
supervision.

> Tougher to get to an OW enjoyable place here in the midwest, as the
> flowers just started peeking up and making sure the snow is
> gone. http://www.haighquarry.com/user-temperature.php . Guess we'll be
> looking at a 7mm suit to keep warm...

You should be looking at airline prices for round trip flights to S. Florida
instead.

Lee

On Mon, 7 May 2007 14:47:38 -0400, "Lee Bell" <pleebell@bellsouth.net>
wrote:

>P.Schuman wrote
>
>> The pool time was Sunday mornings - from 9 to 12 - on 3 different sessions
>> with class time for discussion on different days.
>> So... they probably have had a good level of the basics,
>> and I would guess the same level of attention from the instructor
>> will be used for the OW session...
>
>Most instructors who are diligent in the classroom and pool, are diligent in
>open water too, but the purpose of the open water dives, in my experience,
>is a bit different. It's more to see them demonstrate their ability
>individually while still under some supervision. It's like a solo flight,
>the last step before they're certified as competent to dive independent of
>supervision.
>
>> Tougher to get to an OW enjoyable place here in the midwest, as the
>> flowers just started peeking up and making sure the snow is
>> gone. http://www.haighquarry.com/user-temperature.php . Guess we'll be
>> looking at a 7mm suit to keep warm...
>
>You should be looking at airline prices for round trip flights to S. Florida
>instead.
>
>Lee
>
>
I certified SSI in 98. 2 open water dives in the AM, then lunch and
a debrief in the afternoon Second day PM debrief also included
drinking the beer purchased by the students for "bone head "
infractions like putting the cap back on a used tank or leaving gear
on a standing tank and walking away without laying it down.The
instructor also offered to lets us come back the next Saturday for two
more, if we wanted and would pay for the air.

Rod wrote

> PM debrief also included drinking the beer purchased by the students for
> "bone head "
> infractions like putting the cap back on a used tank . . .

Nothing bone head about that. They're called dust caps because they were
designed to keep dust, etc. out of the valves. Some bone head dive
operator, too lazy to put a gauge on tanks to see if they are full or empty
came up with the "on is full, of is empty" idea.

"Lee Bell" <pleebell@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:qKG%h.25245$XU4.16733@bignews8.bellsouth.net. ..
> P.Schuman wrote
>
>> In looking over the PADI reqs for OW cert,
>> I noticed that it specifies 5 confined + 4 open dives.

> Here in S. Florida, they routinely do all 4 dives the same day, two in the
> morning, two in the afternoon. The first two are primarily focused on
> demonstration of skills you should have learned in the pool sessions. If
> you didn't, it's probably too late to learn them at this point. The
> second two are normally more focused on enjoying diving.

If they routinely do all 4 open water certification dives on the same day
and are PADI, they are routinely violating standards.

The maximum number of OW certification dives that can be completed for
credit during a day (dawn to dusk) is three. Four dives can be completed in
24 hours, but there must be a break overnight. For example, one could do
two dives in the afternoon followed by two dives the next morning.

sdshweb wrote

> If they routinely do all 4 open water certification dives on the same day
> and are PADI, they are routinely violating standards.

Imagine that, PADI instructors violating standards for money. Who would
have thought.

"Lee Bell" <pleebell@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:s%Q%h.25460$XU4.10116@bignews8.bellsouth.net. ..
> Rod wrote
>
>> PM debrief also included drinking the beer purchased by the students for
>> "bone head "
>> infractions like putting the cap back on a used tank . . .
>
> Nothing bone head about that. They're called dust caps because they were
> designed to keep dust, etc. out of the valves. Some bone head dive
> operator, too lazy to put a gauge on tanks to see if they are full or
> empty came up with the "on is full, of is empty" idea.

Tape around the valve means it is full no tape means it is empty. A dust
cover is on it suggests to me the tank is empty because as you say people
are trying to keep the dust out knowing there is no tape