beach diving how far is too far ?

How far is too far when beach diving ? Of my 100 dives to date about
20 dives are beach dives and the remainder either charter boat dives
or dives from privately owned boats and even a few jon boat dives.
Of my 80 non-beach dives I really can't recall any problems that even
came
close to what I would call uncomfortable or dangerous, of my 20 beach
dives I have experienced at least five dives that I considered over
extended
and some that bordered on dangerous. There seems to be a more care
free
approach to this diving when in fact I believe the planning and
caution with this diving should be every bit as organized as a deep
water dive perhaps
more so since your access to first aid or rescue is even further away
than
when diving by boat. I have seen nausea present itself after fighting
a surf
before the dive even starts and I have experienced being farther out
to sea
than was safe either by plan or by nature. I post this only to make
the point that beach diving in a best case scenario can be quite
enjoyable but to plan
on best case scenario and then be presented with sudden changes in
weather conditions, currents, and outgoing tides a beach dive could
turn fatal as easy
as any other. Which brings me to me to my topic, how far is too far.
That
500 feet from shore that you believed was well within your limits in
good weather could certainly be a fatal distance in bad weather. I
would say personally if you believe that your at about your limits
under ideal conditions to get back to shore you'll surely be over your
limit in bad weather. I think there are many that believe the "surface
swim" is a fail
safe back up when a low air or out of air arises, those people have
never been caught in a storm one half mile off shore with an empty air
tank and
no way to even begin to seek help. I have not been there either but
I've
always believed in planning for the worst case scenario and not
experiencing
it rather than planning for the best and being put in a dangerous or
even fatal
situation. Be careful, the rough surf can be demanding for even the
most fit divers and when a bad tropical storm kicks up you can flush
that 1000 dive log book down the toilet, it wont mean a thing !

Kevin Falconer Fort Myers, FL

On 9 Aug 2004 18:09:23 -0700, kpjfalconer@aol.com (Kevin Falconer)
wrote:

>How far is too far when beach diving ? Of my 100 dives to date about
>20 dives are beach dives and the remainder either charter boat dives
>or dives from privately owned boats and even a few jon boat dives.

20?
You've got me beat. I have only two non-classroom beach dives, and
those were freshwater lakes.
DIR-F was a freshwater lake too.

One of my AOW dives was a freshwater lake, and one was the Colorado
River.

4 of my OW class dives were beach.
2 of those were in ankle-slappers.
2 were in 1ft "surf".
The remaining 3 of my AOW class dives were beach.
One of my 4 wreck class dives was beach.
Those 4 were pretty hairy... entry wasn't too bad except for one, but
all 4 exits were a B*I*T*C*H.

That's 11 times I've dove in the ocean from the beach.
3 non-surf-entry dives that were technically "beach entry"
4 non-surf-entry dives that were technically "boat ramp entry"

I hate surf entries and surface swims.

If I want to surface swim, I'll snorkel.
If I want to deal with surf, I'll body surf... WITHOUT 70 pounds of
gear on my back and a $2,000 drysuit :)

If I want to dive, I haul 70 pounds of gear and 6-10 tanks down the
gangway to my buddy's boat and we enjoy a relaxing weekend at the
island.



--- Rich
http://richlockyer.tripod.com/

kpjfalconer@aol.com (Kevin Falconer) wrote:

> I post this only to make the point that beach diving in a
> best case scenario can be quite enjoyable but to plan on
> best case scenario and then be presented with sudden changes in
> weather conditions, currents, and outgoing tides a beach dive
> could turn fatal as easy as any other.

Well stated. A good diver will always take the dive conditions into
account, before, during and after a dive.


> Which brings me to me to my topic, how far is too far.
> That 500 feet from shore that you believed was well within
> your limits in good weather could certainly be a fatal distance
> in bad weather.

It doesn't even have to be bad weather...a change in the currents due to
the tide can be all it takes.

IIRC, they never found those two guys who disappeared while diving off
of Bonaire's "Slaves" area in the Southwest corner a few years ago.


> I think there are many that believe the "surface swim" is a fail
> safe back up when a low air or out of air arises, those people have
> never been caught in a storm one half mile off shore with an empty air
> tank and no way to even begin to seek help.

A surface swim with full gear in "real" open water is rarely fun and
entertaining: its work. The ideal shore dive is to be able to enter
and promptly submerge (and have things to look at right away) to get
away from a non-glassy water surface.

Insofar as what then is "too far", if the swim out is going to be UW, a
simple "practicality" is one definition that can be used: assuming an
average depth of 30fsw or so, most people will burn most of their air on
the commute out/back and not have much left for the dive if the commute
is more than roughly 20 minutes or so.

So how far can you comfortably swim in 20 minutes?


-hh

Rich Lockyer wrote:

> I hate surf entries and surface swims.
>
> If I want to surface swim, I'll snorkel.
> If I want to deal with surf, I'll body surf... WITHOUT 70 pounds of
> gear on my back and a $2,000 drysuit :)
>
> If I want to dive, I haul 70 pounds of gear and 6-10 tanks down the
> gangway to my buddy's boat and we enjoy a relaxing weekend at the
> island.

Proving once again that you and I are twins separated at birth....

Kevin Falconer wrote:

>I've
>always believed in planning for the worst case scenario and not
>experiencing
>it rather than planning for the best and being put in a dangerous or
>even fatal
>situation.
>
Great post, and your statement above is what many divers seem to not
understand. Plan for the worst - hope for the best. Good motto for any
potentially dangerous event. It never ceases to amaze me how many shore
divers I run into who do not plan their dives, who do not know basic
navigation skills, who don't carry even basic emergency gear (as in a
whistle), and who never seem to have even the most basic emergency plans
in place before they dive. It takes 5 minutes to go through a dive plan
with your buddy, get compass bearings, and go over what you're going to
do if something bad should happen - hell, if you're fortunate enough to
always dive with the same buddy much of this becomes automatic.

And like you I have, on occasion, surfaced in sketchy conditions. I
don't think I've ever been in a situation where I would have died, but
without a doubt the planning we had done in advance made these
situations an inconvenience, rather then a serious problem.

Bryan

In article <4d967234.0408091709.19460b8c@posting.google.com >, Kevin
Falconer <kpjfalconer@aol.com> wrote:

>
> I have not been there either but
> I've
> always believed in planning for the worst case scenario and not
> experiencing
> it rather than planning for the best and being put in a dangerous or
> even fatal
> situation.

I could bring up something about a 6 ft3 pony, but that might disrupt
the warm, fuzzy self-congratulations going on here

" H. Huntzinger" <{NOSPAM-rm_to_reply}rec-scuba@huntzinger.com> wrote

> Well stated. A good diver will always take the dive conditions into
> account, before, during and after a dive.


Well stated but I will have to admit not always well practiced.
Another aspect of the beach diving is group diving and there seems to
be a just go with the flow attitude especially diving with new buddies
when you dont want to
appear overly cautious or god forbid, bossy. It's a tough call when
you know from the get go everyone is gliding over what should be some
very basic stuff,
unfortunately it takes a dive for one to realize who are the
conscientious ones
and who just take safety for granted. I will never deny anyone I'm to
dive with
my full attention when they express any concerns about an upcoming
dive, I in fact would encourage it. In my opinion communication and
pre-dive planning is
an issue that's taken far too lightly in most cases.


Kevin Falconer Fort Myers, FL

On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 07:45:49 -0400, " H. Huntzinger"
<{NOSPAM-rm_to_reply}rec-scuba@huntzinger.com> wrote:

>So how far can you comfortably swim in 20 minutes?

My scooter can get me about a mile :)



--- Rich
http://richlockyer.tripod.com/

kpjfalconer@aol.com (Kevin Falconer) wrote:
>
> Another aspect of the beach diving is group diving and there seems to
> be a just go with the flow attitude especially diving with new buddies
> when you dont want to appear overly cautious or god forbid, bossy.

The solution there is to shore dive solo


> It's a tough call when you know from the get go everyone
> is gliding over what should be some very basic stuff,
> unfortunately it takes a dive for one to realize who are the
> conscientious ones and who just take safety for granted.

The real problem is with people who take things for granted while they
lack the ability to carry out their assumed contingency plan. There's
the example here of a surface swim back to shore...how many people have
actually tried to float in their gear for 10-20-30 minutes with an empty
tank in water that wasn't as flat as a pool or pond? It may come as a
very rude surprise when they find themselves in even a small 2ft chop
for a half hour long swim back in.


> ...In my opinion communication and pre-dive planning is
> an issue that's taken far too lightly in most cases.

Agreed. Unfortunately, that shortcoming's not unique to shore diving.



-hh

Why surface swim unless you have no choice? When I did my OW I was taught to
take advantage of the surf going out and later divemastering in Montery we
taught the same to our students. Surf isn't uniform and the water that runs
up on the beach has to return to the sea somewhere. It flows laterally
until it finds a slight depression, joins up with its buddies and forms a
current flowing back out to sea. That point is usually marked by a gap in
the breakers and that gap is your entry point. Take a compass bearing to
your dive location, go on your regulator, wade out through the gap past the
surfline, drop down to the bottom where the water is smooth and get a free
ride in the undertow out beyond the breakers. Depending on why you're doing
the dive you can either surface behind the waves and snorkle on out or
continue on the bottom admiring the critters. When it's time to return you
don't come back all the way on the surface - perhaps pop up briefly to take
a compass bearing again on a landmark at your desired exit point but then
drop to the bottom and return to the beach underwater following your compass
bearing, either the one you just shot or the reciprocal bearing to your
entry swim, all the way in. Or you could snorkle in until nearer the beach
before dropping down if you want. At the beach you don't go through the
surf - you go under it. When you get into surf you crawl up the beach
underwater on your hands and knees - when a wave comes in you let it carry
you forward, then as it returns you grip the sand to hold your position,
then during slack water you crawl forward, repeating until you're far enough
up the beach to be out of the surf.

Your point is on currents, tides, and developing weather are well taken.
That's why you should always consult with divers who are intimate with local
conditions before going on a dive in new territory, have a book of tide
tables and know how to use them, and monitor the mariner's weather
information broadcasts - a VHF receiver - a transceiver even better - that
can monitor Coast Guard and NOAA broadcasts should be part of your kit.

"Kevin Falconer" <kpjfalconer@aol.com> wrote in message
news:4d967234.0408091709.19460b8c@posting.google.c om...
> How far is too far when beach diving ? Of my 100 dives to date about
> 20 dives are beach dives and the remainder either charter boat dives
> or dives from privately owned boats and even a few jon boat dives.
> Of my 80 non-beach dives I really can't recall any problems that even
> came
> close to what I would call uncomfortable or dangerous, of my 20 beach
> dives I have experienced at least five dives that I considered over
> extended
> and some that bordered on dangerous. There seems to be a more care
> free
> approach to this diving when in fact I believe the planning and
> caution with this diving should be every bit as organized as a deep
> water dive perhaps
> more so since your access to first aid or rescue is even further away
> than
> when diving by boat. I have seen nausea present itself after fighting
> a surf
> before the dive even starts and I have experienced being farther out
> to sea
> than was safe either by plan or by nature. I post this only to make
> the point that beach diving in a best case scenario can be quite
> enjoyable but to plan
> on best case scenario and then be presented with sudden changes in
> weather conditions, currents, and outgoing tides a beach dive could
> turn fatal as easy
> as any other. Which brings me to me to my topic, how far is too far.
> That
> 500 feet from shore that you believed was well within your limits in
> good weather could certainly be a fatal distance in bad weather. I
> would say personally if you believe that your at about your limits
> under ideal conditions to get back to shore you'll surely be over your
> limit in bad weather. I think there are many that believe the "surface
> swim" is a fail
> safe back up when a low air or out of air arises, those people have
> never been caught in a storm one half mile off shore with an empty air
> tank and
> no way to even begin to seek help. I have not been there either but
> I've
> always believed in planning for the worst case scenario and not
> experiencing
> it rather than planning for the best and being put in a dangerous or
> even fatal
> situation. Be careful, the rough surf can be demanding for even the
> most fit divers and when a bad tropical storm kicks up you can flush
> that 1000 dive log book down the toilet, it wont mean a thing !
>
> Kevin Falconer Fort Myers, FL