Karll's Bullshit, and off target counter-attacks

Quotes from pre-killfile Karl

"You're entitled to your opinion."

Damn straight I am.

"And so am I".

And why not? Opinions are like assholes, and you seem to resemble an
opinion.

My source of knowledge for your condom recovery qualifications did
mention to point out your certification level, then ask about your
pontifications on solo diving and no training necessary.......all I had to
do was point out your certification level, you did the rest for me, hook,
line & sinker.

""Recovery" implies that the other person has expired. If you were diving
with them you (and they) fucked up."

Since the scenario you described about the hose describes how inability
to donate the long hose (effectively?) indicates the buddy was OOG and
presumably he was the fatality, are you laughing at yourself? Since the
only way you'd be there is if it was your buddy, but then you'd be saddened
(after laughing, I presume) that you had to self recover.....piece of cake
for a solo diver, eh?

"Since you've NEVER dove with me Curtis this much is clear - you lack
the
ability to judge whether or not I'm able to dive with any degree of
competence."

All I need to know is that you are overconfident, arrogant, and show
shitty judgment. I can forgive lack of some skills, as others do for me.

"The difference is that I don't spout off about YOUR abilities, of which
I know nothing - either good or bad."

You're too busy tooting your own horn. Besides, it's your qualities,
not abilities, that I question.

"There are scooter dives that I won't do solo, because I don't own TWO
(high performance) scooters (one to ride and one to tow); as a consequence
I expect on such a dive that I have a right to a tow out if my scooter
fails, and I likewise am obligated to tow out my buddy if HIS fails. (I
inserted "high performance" because I have an SS and two Teknas - working on
the latter as "fun" OW devices; they're a LOT lighter than the UV-18)

These are not OW dives, of course. :->"

Proof of starting to get the idea, but way too late


"So you'd argue that its perfectly ok to route a long hose off the post,
under both armpits (encircling the torso), around the neck and then into
the mouth?"

No, nor am I going to wish them dead so I can be amused. I don't have a
pompous ass cert, or self training to be one.

"Exactly how would you release said long hose if you needed to donate to
someone who is OOA? Raise both arms? With what hand do you propose to
hold the second stage you wish to give to the OOA diver while you raise
both arms?"

Never tried it, nor am I curious enough, way I'm trained works and is
proven. Not the point of the flames, you are diverting the issue.


"Oh, you mean God didn't give you THREE hands?Oh, so I am describing
something cluster-fucked? Gee, so the "rant" wasn't
a "rant" eh? You recognize that if you were diving with said person you had
better bring all your redundancy with you?"

Definitely a rant, from your pulpit. Wouldn't effect me at all, I would
have thumbed the dive before hitting the water.

"Good. Thank you for agreeing with me. :->"

As soon as you apologize and admit you were an asshole, I'll agree you
have some good points, many wild-assed dreams, piss-poor delivery and tend
to overstate your qualifications.

"And if that's bad, I bet you NEVER swim into a place where you can't
raise
said arms, right? Like, perhaps a restriction in a cave, or a tight hallway
or door in a wreck?"

Actually, yes, I do. Your point to me is?

"Oh fuck - I guess said OOA guy just plain is shit-outta-luck eh?"

From your own description, yes you are.


>But he's not lacking in judgment.

"That wasn't the question raised Mike.

Curtis claims to know if <I> can dive.

However, he has never seen me do so.

In other words, he makes his proclamation based on nothing whatsoever.

That defines "lack of judgment"."


Nope, my judgment is fine, since I question your qualifications, not
abilities, when making my judgment call.

"Afraid to come play where you can't censor and throw people off who you
disagree with, and where foul language and personal insult is met with
derision? Where tough questions that are met with redirection don't
give you the ability to shout other people down?"

Hmmm, since I've been here over 6 years, and rarely participate
elsewhere, definitely not the tech lists and psuedo-tech lists where you
preach, guess not. I also give respect to those who deserve it And guess
what, I can ignore you very well, and demonstrated how you COULD be deprived
of an audience. Tough questions? You don't want the get answers, you want
to give your answers. I can get all the best answers for any dive questions
from a much better source than rec scuba, couldn't give a shit how much you
think you are personally saving the world of diving. I can most certainly
see an egotistical asshole, and see the hypocrisy in this group by way of if
a certain other well known diver WITH the credentials made the same
statements you did, there would be an uproar. Grow up.

You make a big assumption that you deserve to be debated for every
asinine statement you utter. Guess what?

"That's what I thought."

Wrong again.

"Formal training ain't everything. I have dove well beyond what some
stupid
plastic card says more times than I've dove within its "boundaries." Then
again, so do nearly all OW divers, for example - how many of them go beyond
60'? Nearly all."

Formal training has a definite place.

"Let me see if I can list the "violations" of your money-grubbing rules
in
the last year.... I'm sure I can come up with a partial list..."

Bragging again.

"1. No scooter certification - but I scooter.
2. No underwater camera certification - but I take both still and video.
3. No spearfishing specialty - but I do that too.
4. No gas-blenders cert - but I mix my own gas.
5. No decompression card - but I do intentional decompression diving
all the time.
6. No trimix cert - see (4) above, and of course the USE of said mixed
gas."

Seem to see a missing section, the part where you have become a
recognized recovery diver, who has never recovered from the blow to his ego.
The guy with a third of the certification of cave diving.

"I can go on, and on, and on."

And I am not the only one who has noticed. Want a longer rope? You
gonna hang or hit the ground hard?

"The simple fact of the matter is that all that
a card says is that you paid someone money to issue it. You can try to
argue otherwise, but then you run into people who have a "card" issued by
an "instructor" who taught them to wrap their long hose under both armpits,
trapping it so that it cannot serve its intended purpsoe if that should ever
become necessary."

Ho-hum

"The existence of just ONE such instructor who manages to issue "cards"
is
proof that the card is meaningless.'

And the existence of you is proof that all advise given on rec scuba is
questionable, at best.

"The fact that I have done all of the above many times and have neither
been
bent or killed (the latter is obvious; the former you'll have to take on
faith) is all the evidence necessary that a card is not NECESSARY."

Given I have witnessed self-proclaimed cave divers with much need for
improvement, I no longer have faith in a braggart.

And, you could be a sock-puppet protecting the "honor" of the recently
deceased, seeing the multiple personalities here.

"So we've covered NECESSARY and SUFFICIENT."

Not at all. I could really care less about your opinion, you have shown
me poor judgment and poorer delivery.

"The point, Bill, is that those who pontificate about how you "need" a
card
to do this or that, and that the holy grail is the presence of some plastic
in your wallet, refuse to come to grips with the fact that said card is
NEITHER necessary OR sufficient to prove competence."

I think Bill just recognizes your delivery sucks.

"More ranting from an incoherent who refuses to debate the points on the
table."

Debate what? Debate that you're a pompous asshole who thinks he's a
fucking dive god? You lose. You already think you can paint me by smearing
others I may not even know, definitely don't know about, as if others can
compromise my standards. BTW, the best way you can close my dive sites is
by dying in them, so, knock yourself out.......just don't do it around me.
You wanna go set up under a sinking ship, be my guest, I promise not to
snicker in public. Brag elsewhere, not to me, I am not impressed at all.

"We'll see how long the killfile lasts.... and whether you keep your
promise
not to respond."

Well, my rules, I can change the game whenever I want. The others I
killfiled, they get a pardon, they are only guilty of giving you attention,
something you'd leave here without. As for you, Merry Christmas, you're out
until Christmas is over. Although I do not have the religious ties Tony
has, I appreciate the ideals of Christmas. That means I'll read your
response, or rant, but we have nothing to debate. I have no interest in
teaching a self-proclaimed king of the strokes anything other than he isn't
fooling everyone, and I definitely have ruled you out as a role model.

BTW, sorry I missed your sage wisdom past 5 days, it is lost in
cyberspace.

Curtis

Merry Christmas everyone!

"Curtis" <cavey_curtis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:903zd.28963$uM5.24114@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Quotes from pre-killfile Karl
>
> "You're entitled to your opinion."
>
> Damn straight I am.
>
> "And so am I".
>
> And why not? Opinions are like assholes, and you seem to resemble an
> opinion.
>
> My source of knowledge for your condom recovery qualifications did
> mention to point out your certification level, then ask about your
> pontifications on solo diving and no training necessary.......all I had to
> do was point out your certification level, you did the rest for me, hook,
> line & sinker.
>
> ""Recovery" implies that the other person has expired. If you were diving
> with them you (and they) fucked up."
>
> Since the scenario you described about the hose describes how
inability
> to donate the long hose (effectively?) indicates the buddy was OOG and
> presumably he was the fatality, are you laughing at yourself? Since the
> only way you'd be there is if it was your buddy, but then you'd be
saddened
> (after laughing, I presume) that you had to self recover.....piece of cake
> for a solo diver, eh?
>
> "Since you've NEVER dove with me Curtis this much is clear - you lack
> the
> ability to judge whether or not I'm able to dive with any degree of
> competence."
>
> All I need to know is that you are overconfident, arrogant, and show
> shitty judgment. I can forgive lack of some skills, as others do for me.
>
> "The difference is that I don't spout off about YOUR abilities, of
which
> I know nothing - either good or bad."
>
> You're too busy tooting your own horn. Besides, it's your qualities,
> not abilities, that I question.
>
> "There are scooter dives that I won't do solo, because I don't own TWO
> (high performance) scooters (one to ride and one to tow); as a consequence
> I expect on such a dive that I have a right to a tow out if my scooter
> fails, and I likewise am obligated to tow out my buddy if HIS fails. (I
> inserted "high performance" because I have an SS and two Teknas - working
on
> the latter as "fun" OW devices; they're a LOT lighter than the UV-18)
>
> These are not OW dives, of course. :->"
>
> Proof of starting to get the idea, but way too late
>
>
> "So you'd argue that its perfectly ok to route a long hose off the
post,
> under both armpits (encircling the torso), around the neck and then into
> the mouth?"
>
> No, nor am I going to wish them dead so I can be amused. I don't have
a
> pompous ass cert, or self training to be one.
>
> "Exactly how would you release said long hose if you needed to donate
to
> someone who is OOA? Raise both arms? With what hand do you propose to
> hold the second stage you wish to give to the OOA diver while you raise
> both arms?"
>
> Never tried it, nor am I curious enough, way I'm trained works and is
> proven. Not the point of the flames, you are diverting the issue.
>
>
> "Oh, you mean God didn't give you THREE hands?Oh, so I am describing
> something cluster-fucked? Gee, so the "rant" wasn't
> a "rant" eh? You recognize that if you were diving with said person you
had
> better bring all your redundancy with you?"
>
> Definitely a rant, from your pulpit. Wouldn't effect me at all, I
would
> have thumbed the dive before hitting the water.
>
> "Good. Thank you for agreeing with me. :->"
>
> As soon as you apologize and admit you were an asshole, I'll agree you
> have some good points, many wild-assed dreams, piss-poor delivery and tend
> to overstate your qualifications.
>
> "And if that's bad, I bet you NEVER swim into a place where you can't
> raise
> said arms, right? Like, perhaps a restriction in a cave, or a tight
hallway
> or door in a wreck?"
>
> Actually, yes, I do. Your point to me is?
>
> "Oh fuck - I guess said OOA guy just plain is shit-outta-luck eh?"
>
> From your own description, yes you are.
>
>
> >But he's not lacking in judgment.
>
> "That wasn't the question raised Mike.
>
> Curtis claims to know if <I> can dive.
>
> However, he has never seen me do so.
>
> In other words, he makes his proclamation based on nothing whatsoever.
>
> That defines "lack of judgment"."
>
>
> Nope, my judgment is fine, since I question your qualifications, not
> abilities, when making my judgment call.
>
> "Afraid to come play where you can't censor and throw people off who
you
> disagree with, and where foul language and personal insult is met with
> derision? Where tough questions that are met with redirection don't
> give you the ability to shout other people down?"
>
> Hmmm, since I've been here over 6 years, and rarely participate
> elsewhere, definitely not the tech lists and psuedo-tech lists where you
> preach, guess not. I also give respect to those who deserve it And guess
> what, I can ignore you very well, and demonstrated how you COULD be
deprived
> of an audience. Tough questions? You don't want the get answers, you
want
> to give your answers. I can get all the best answers for any dive
questions
> from a much better source than rec scuba, couldn't give a shit how much
you
> think you are personally saving the world of diving. I can most certainly
> see an egotistical asshole, and see the hypocrisy in this group by way of
if
> a certain other well known diver WITH the credentials made the same
> statements you did, there would be an uproar. Grow up.
>
> You make a big assumption that you deserve to be debated for every
> asinine statement you utter. Guess what?
>
> "That's what I thought."
>
> Wrong again.
>
> "Formal training ain't everything. I have dove well beyond what some
> stupid
> plastic card says more times than I've dove within its "boundaries." Then
> again, so do nearly all OW divers, for example - how many of them go
beyond
> 60'? Nearly all."
>
> Formal training has a definite place.
>
> "Let me see if I can list the "violations" of your money-grubbing
rules
> in
> the last year.... I'm sure I can come up with a partial list..."
>
> Bragging again.
>
> "1. No scooter certification - but I scooter.
> 2. No underwater camera certification - but I take both still and video.
> 3. No spearfishing specialty - but I do that too.
> 4. No gas-blenders cert - but I mix my own gas.
> 5. No decompression card - but I do intentional decompression diving
> all the time.
> 6. No trimix cert - see (4) above, and of course the USE of said mixed
> gas."
>
> Seem to see a missing section, the part where you have become a
> recognized recovery diver, who has never recovered from the blow to his
ego.
> The guy with a third of the certification of cave diving.
>
> "I can go on, and on, and on."
>
> And I am not the only one who has noticed. Want a longer rope? You
> gonna hang or hit the ground hard?
>
> "The simple fact of the matter is that all that
> a card says is that you paid someone money to issue it. You can try to
> argue otherwise, but then you run into people who have a "card" issued by
> an "instructor" who taught them to wrap their long hose under both
armpits,
> trapping it so that it cannot serve its intended purpsoe if that should
ever
> become necessary."
>
> Ho-hum
>
> "The existence of just ONE such instructor who manages to issue
"cards"
> is
> proof that the card is meaningless.'
>
> And the existence of you is proof that all advise given on rec scuba
is
> questionable, at best.
>
> "The fact that I have done all of the above many times and have
neither
> been
> bent or killed (the latter is obvious; the former you'll have to take on
> faith) is all the evidence necessary that a card is not NECESSARY."
>
> Given I have witnessed self-proclaimed cave divers with much need for
> improvement, I no longer have faith in a braggart.
>
> And, you could be a sock-puppet protecting the "honor" of the recently
> deceased, seeing the multiple personalities here.
>
> "So we've covered NECESSARY and SUFFICIENT."
>
> Not at all. I could really care less about your opinion, you have
shown
> me poor judgment and poorer delivery.
>
> "The point, Bill, is that those who pontificate about how you "need" a
> card
> to do this or that, and that the holy grail is the presence of some
plastic
> in your wallet, refuse to come to grips with the fact that said card is
> NEITHER necessary OR sufficient to prove competence."
>
> I think Bill just recognizes your delivery sucks.
>
> "More ranting from an incoherent who refuses to debate the points on
the
> table."
>
> Debate what? Debate that you're a pompous asshole who thinks he's a
> fucking dive god? You lose. You already think you can paint me by
smearing
> others I may not even know, definitely don't know about, as if others can
> compromise my standards. BTW, the best way you can close my dive sites is
> by dying in them, so, knock yourself out.......just don't do it around me.
> You wanna go set up under a sinking ship, be my guest, I promise not to
> snicker in public. Brag elsewhere, not to me, I am not impressed at all.
>
> "We'll see how long the killfile lasts.... and whether you keep your
> promise
> not to respond."
>
> Well, my rules, I can change the game whenever I want. The others I
> killfiled, they get a pardon, they are only guilty of giving you
attention,
> something you'd leave here without. As for you, Merry Christmas, you're
out
> until Christmas is over. Although I do not have the religious ties Tony
> has, I appreciate the ideals of Christmas. That means I'll read your
> response, or rant, but we have nothing to debate. I have no interest in
> teaching a self-proclaimed king of the strokes anything other than he
isn't
> fooling everyone, and I definitely have ruled you out as a role model.
>
> BTW, sorry I missed your sage wisdom past 5 days, it is lost in
> cyberspace.
>
> Curtis
>
> Merry Christmas everyone!

And to you.

Don't let him wind you, even though you handed him his ass in a hat.

Karl is "one of those" who never did, never made, but can backseat everyone
who ever did.

Remember the last guy here that thought owning a boat made him an expert?

In article <903zd.28963$uM5.24114@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
Curtis <cavey_curtis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Since the scenario you described about the hose describes how inability
>to donate the long hose (effectively?) indicates the buddy was OOG and
>presumably he was the fatality, are you laughing at yourself? Since the
>only way you'd be there is if it was your buddy, but then you'd be saddened
>(after laughing, I presume) that you had to self recover.....piece of cake
>for a solo diver, eh?

That's not true, of course. You can come upon someone who has had a problem
and expired without being their buddy. But in the world of Curtis, nobody
ever dives solo, and nobody ever dives except "just like him."

He simply refuses to see the forest for the trees.

> "So you'd argue that its perfectly ok to route a long hose off the post,
>under both armpits (encircling the torso), around the neck and then into
>the mouth?"
>
> No, nor am I going to wish them dead so I can be amused.

Heh, we're all entitled to our opinion.

> As soon as you apologize and admit you were an asshole, I'll agree you
>have some good points, many wild-assed dreams, piss-poor delivery and tend
>to overstate your qualifications.

As soon as you apologize and admit that you're a fuckhead, I might think
about it.

On second thought, I won't.

> Nope, my judgment is fine, since I question your qualifications, not
>abilities, when making my judgment call.

Oh, so now Cavey Curtis judges people on their <QUALIFICATIONS>, not
<ABILITIES.>

And that, my friend, is how one ends up dead.

Just ask the nice divers in Mexico who dove with a guide who had fabulous
"qualifications" recently.

> Formal training has a definite place.

Yes, it separates money from sheep and promotes cult behavior.

As seen right here.

> Given I have witnessed self-proclaimed cave divers with much need for
>improvement, I no longer have faith in a braggart.

Nor in certification eh?

> "We'll see how long the killfile lasts.... and whether you keep your
>promise
>not to respond."
>
> Well, my rules, I can change the game whenever I want.

In other words, to the list of sins, we can add "hypocrite" and "liar".

Thanks.

>Curtis
>
> Merry Christmas everyone!

May you have CO(al) in your next fill :->

--
--
Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist
http://www.denninger.net My home on the net - links to everything I do!
http://scubaforum.org Your UNCENSORED place to talk about DIVING!
http://www.spamcuda.net SPAM FREE mailboxes - FREE FOR A LIMITED TIME!
http://genesis3.blogspot.com Musings Of A Sentient Mind

"Karl Denninger" wrote ...
> But in the world of Curtis, nobody ever dives solo,
>and nobody ever dives except "just like him."

Having dove 'with' Curtis, I would have to say that that is an inaccurate
statement...

> May you have CO(al) in your next fill :->

A drop of mercaptan in the tank would be more interesting...

"Grumman-581" wrote

> Having dove 'with' Curtis, I would have to say that that is an inaccurate
> statement...

Have fun diving with Karl.

Curtis

In article <10spfjv1n6pnf20@corp.supernews.com>, Scott
<pugetsounddiver@geemail.com> wrote:

€ Remember the last guy here that thought owning a boat made him an expert?

Yup. They found the boat.

--
"C'mon, you sons of bitches, you want to live forever?"
-Sergeant Major Dan Daly

In article <zm3zd.29019$uM5.15112@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
Curtis <cavey_curtis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>Krusty "Karl Denninger" wrote
>
>> Oh, so now Cavey Curtis judges people on their <QUALIFICATIONS>, not
>> <ABILITIES.>
>>
>> And that, my friend, is how one ends up dead.
>
> How so? We're talking your internet posturing, before we ever meet, so
>guess you assume too much.....once again.
>
>> In other words, to the list of sins, we can add "hypocrite" and "liar".
>
> If you insist, but you could just admit I played your ass to watch you
>reveal yourself what I loath about you.
>
>> May you have CO(al) in your next fill :->
>
> May you have shit in your hood, razors in your condom and fishbreath in
>your bed. <-------obligatory smiley
>
> and proof I read you
>
>Curtis

Add "liar" twice more - after all, you DID claim you killfiled me.

You just couldn't do it, could 'ya Curtis?

--
--
Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist
http://www.denninger.net My home on the net - links to everything I do!
http://scubaforum.org Your UNCENSORED place to talk about DIVING!
http://www.spamcuda.net SPAM FREE mailboxes - FREE FOR A LIMITED TIME!
http://genesis3.blogspot.com Musings Of A Sentient Mind

"Curtis" wrote ...
> Have fun diving with Karl.

Hell, if I would dive with Greg, I would dive with *anybody*... <grin>

Of course, Greg chickened out once he heard we were going to BBQ him...

In article <pP4zd.46991$5F2.40097@fe05.lga>,
Grumman-581 <grumman581-YYYY-MM@charter.net> wrote:
>
>"Curtis" wrote ...
>> Have fun diving with Karl.
>
>Hell, if I would dive with Greg, I would dive with *anybody*... <grin>
>
>Of course, Greg chickened out once he heard we were going to BBQ him...

I'll post some video of us scootering the Oriskany this summer - just to piss
'ya off Cavey.......

Or heh, maybe a nice dive at JB? :->

--
--
Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist
http://www.denninger.net My home on the net - links to everything I do!
http://scubaforum.org Your UNCENSORED place to talk about DIVING!
http://www.spamcuda.net SPAM FREE mailboxes - FREE FOR A LIMITED TIME!
http://genesis3.blogspot.com Musings Of A Sentient Mind

"Karl Denninger" wrote ...
> I'll post some video of us scootering the Oriskany this summer - just to
piss
> 'ya off Cavey.......

Never tried scootering -- neither the water type nor the two wheeled foot
push powered type... Might be interesting to try the former, but I'll pass
on the latter...

Hey, I've got an idea... Lets grab one of the two wheeled foot push powered
type of scooters and stage a photo on the flight deck of the Oriskany...
<grin>

> Or heh, maybe a nice dive at JB? :->

I recently heard that there are some gators that hide out in the hydrillia
in the lake... Considering how many times I had to hop overboard to clear my
jet intake, I'm glad they don't have a taste for neoprene...