Just got my first wetsuit

I just got my first wetsuit. With the help of everyone here, my instructor,
who runs the dive shop, and the manufacturer, I settled on a 3/2 in an M/L
size, the first size I tried on.

We ordered a M to try, and it was definitely snug but not unbearable. A bit
restrictive but I could still raise my arms up. I could breath okay, but
felt like I was being strangled a bit around the neck.

The ML was form fitting everywhere except my upper arms, a tad loose, and
there was a small gap in the small of my back. Much more comfortable and I
wasn't strangling.

According to Bare, they said to get the one that's most comfortable but not
loose. Bare claims their lower end models are not made of the stretchy new
fabrics that loosen when wet and give you lots of motion when you get them
really tight. You guys seemed to be divided as to comfort and really snug.
My instructor said either would be fine, but also said it's nice to be
comfortable and the ML didn't look to big.

I think the fit is right on, and thanks again for the help.

Sheldon

Sheldon wrote

>You guys seemed to be divided as to comfort and really snug.

I think you were misreading us. A wetsuit works because it traps water
between the suit and the body and insulates that water from ambient
temperature. The body warms the water, which, in turn, insulates the body.
Think of that water as the thermal underwear inside a drysuit. In order to
be effective, the wetsuit has to be snug enough to keep water exchange to a
minimum. If your suit does that, it's fine. If it doesn't, it's less than
optimal. Everything is a trade off. Even if it is not optimal, it may be
good enough. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. In cold water, a
poor seal that allows cold water in is pretty easy to recognize.

> My instructor said either would be fine, but also said it's nice to be
> comfortable and the ML didn't look to big.

That's not the kind of statement that gives confidence in the instructor.

> I think the fit is right on, and thanks again for the help.

I hope you're right.

Lee

"Lee Bell" <pleebell@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:l62hj.49255$N67.11624@bignews5.bellsouth.net. ..
> Sheldon wrote
>
>>You guys seemed to be divided as to comfort and really snug.
>
> I think you were misreading us. A wetsuit works because it traps water
> between the suit and the body and insulates that water from ambient
> temperature. The body warms the water, which, in turn, insulates the body.
> Think of that water as the thermal underwear inside a drysuit. In order to
> be effective, the wetsuit has to be snug enough to keep water exchange to
> a minimum. If your suit does that, it's fine. If it doesn't, it's less
> than optimal. Everything is a trade off. Even if it is not optimal, it may
> be good enough. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. In cold water,
> a poor seal that allows cold water in is pretty easy to recognize.
>
>> My instructor said either would be fine, but also said it's nice to be
>> comfortable and the ML didn't look to big.
>
> That's not the kind of statement that gives confidence in the instructor.
>
>> I think the fit is right on, and thanks again for the help.
>
> I hope you're right.
>
> Lee

While the M was strangling me somewhat, and the ML was not, the ML was still
snug and appeared to be making a seal around my neck. After taking all this
into account I pretty much went with Bare's recommendations (they said the
suit will not stretch or loosen in the water). Everyplace on my body,
except the small of my back and my upper arms, the suit fits like a glove
right up against me. The M is just tighter, "almost" to the point of
cutting of my circulation, and definitely tight around the neck.

That said, I do agree with you. The proof is in the diving, and I won't
really know till I get the suit in the water. Since it was purchased for
diving in the Caribbean it can't be too much of a mistake if it is one.

I'm still learning. If the worst mistake I make diving is buying a wetsuit
that's a bit too large I'd say that' not too bad.

I'll keep you posted.

Sheldon

On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 06:21:03 -0500, Lee Bell wrote:

> I think you were misreading us. A wetsuit works because it traps water
> between the suit and the body and insulates that water from ambient
> temperature. The body warms the water, which, in turn, insulates the body.

Uhhh... Water is not an insulator... It conducts heat... The insulator is
the neoprene... The water perhaps distributes the heat from one part of
the body to another part of the body, but that just means that it is
taking it from one place and moving it somewhere else... If your wetsuit
is allowing this, it's probably also allowing water in from the outside
which means that some of the water that you've already warmed is going to
escape... Basically, you're pumping your body heat into the sea / lake
water...

--
See NNTP header field "X-Real-Email-Address" to reply by email.

"Grumman-581" <grumman581-usenet-2008@spambob.net> wrote in message
newsan.2008.01.09.20.39.15.922000@spambob.net...
> On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 06:21:03 -0500, Lee Bell wrote:
>
>> I think you were misreading us. A wetsuit works because it traps water
>> between the suit and the body and insulates that water from ambient
>> temperature. The body warms the water, which, in turn, insulates the
>> body.
>
> Uhhh... Water is not an insulator... It conducts heat... The insulator is
> the neoprene... The water perhaps distributes the heat from one part of
> the body to another part of the body, but that just means that it is
> taking it from one place and moving it somewhere else... If your wetsuit
> is allowing this, it's probably also allowing water in from the outside
> which means that some of the water that you've already warmed is going to
> escape... Basically, you're pumping your body heat into the sea / lake
> water...
>

That's what I've heard, but there seems to be a discrepancy about this fact,
even in this group. Many people still feel that your body warms up the
water in the wetsuit. And, in reality it probably does. You just hope it's
not flowing in and out at too great a rate. I'm beginning to think the
proper fit for a wetsuit is not tight but rather no gaps. If it fits like a
glove it's probably right. If it's tight, how tight is too tight? You
would also think that if you stretch it too tight over your body it will
actually lose some thickness.

Sheldon wrote:

>"Grumman-581" <grumman581-usenet-2008@spambob.net> wrote in message
>newsan.2008.01.09.20.39.15.922000@spambob.net.. .
>
>
>>On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 06:21:03 -0500, Lee Bell wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>I think you were misreading us. A wetsuit works because it traps water
>>>between the suit and the body and insulates that water from ambient
>>>temperature. The body warms the water, which, in turn, insulates the
>>>body.
>>>
>>>
>>Uhhh... Water is not an insulator... It conducts heat... The insulator is
>>the neoprene... The water perhaps distributes the heat from one part of
>>the body to another part of the body, but that just means that it is
>>taking it from one place and moving it somewhere else... If your wetsuit
>>is allowing this, it's probably also allowing water in from the outside
>>which means that some of the water that you've already warmed is going to
>>escape... Basically, you're pumping your body heat into the sea / lake
>>water...
>>
>>
>>
>
>That's what I've heard, but there seems to be a discrepancy about this fact,
>even in this group. Many people still feel that your body warms up the
>water in the wetsuit. And, in reality it probably does. You just hope it's
>not flowing in and out at too great a rate. I'm beginning to think the
>proper fit for a wetsuit is not tight but rather no gaps. If it fits like a
>glove it's probably right. If it's tight, how tight is too tight? You
>would also think that if you stretch it too tight over your body it will
>actually lose some thickness.
>
>
Sounds to me like the ML you bought is a pretty good fit for
off-the-rack. The M probably would've been okay too. Stock sizes are
always a compromise, and fit isn't too critical in a 3 mm for warm water
diving. My warm water suit is too loose-- but it still beats a t-shirt!

> While the M was strangling me somewhat, and the ML was not, the ML was
> still snug and appeared to be making a seal around my neck. After taking
> all this into account I pretty much went with Bare's recommendations (they
> said the suit will not stretch or loosen in the water). Everyplace on my
> body, except the small of my back and my upper arms, the suit fits like a
> glove right up against me. The M is just tighter, "almost" to the point
> of cutting of my circulation, and definitely tight around the neck.

I obviously didn't speak clearly. You know how well it fits best. From your
description, I think you'll probalby be fine. You'll know for sure the first
few times you use it in cold water.

Some people just can't find an off the shelf wetsuit that fits well. At my
current weight, I'm one of them. I'm working on getting back to a more
standard size. If I were to buy a wetsuit to fit me today, I'd go for a
custom one. That's easy for me, there's a shop that makes them for a
reasonable price within a few miles of my home. Not everyone's that lucky.

Good luck with yours. I hope it's both warm and comfortable.

Lee

Sheldon wrote

>>> I think you were misreading us. A wetsuit works because it traps water
>>> between the suit and the body and insulates that water from ambient
>>> temperature. The body warms the water, which, in turn, insulates the
>>> body.
>>
>> Uhhh... Water is not an insulator... It conducts heat... The insulator is
>> the neoprene... The water perhaps distributes the heat from one part of
>> the body to another part of the body, but that just means that it is
>> taking it from one place and moving it somewhere else... If your wetsuit
>> is allowing this, it's probably also allowing water in from the outside
>> which means that some of the water that you've already warmed is going to
>> escape... Basically, you're pumping your body heat into the sea / lake
>> water...

> That's what I've heard, but there seems to be a discrepancy about this
> fact, even in this group. Many people still feel that your body warms up
> the water in the wetsuit.

It does. Grumman was primarily addressing my statement that the water
insulates your body. He's probably technically correct.

> I'm beginning to think the proper fit for a wetsuit is not tight but
> rather no gaps.

That would be the ideal. Some wetsuits have pads that go along the spine to
help create a no gap fit.

> If it fits like a glove it's probably right. If it's tight, how tight is
> too tight?

That's an excellent question. Too bad there isn't a good answer to it. If
the suit cuts off circulation, it's too tight for sure. If it restricts
breathing, that's also a bad sign. I have that problem with mine now. I wish
it was because my suit shrank. It's not. Beyond that, everything is a trade
off between a fit snug enough to keep water transfer to a minimum and one so
snug that it's uncomfortable. The best balance is a highly individual
decision. The easier the wetsuit material stretches, though, the better it's
likely to fit before becoming uncomfortable.

> You would also think that if you stretch it too tight over your body it
> will actually lose some thickness.

It does, but not much. You lose a lot more thickness, and thermal
protection, due to pressure compression than you do from stretch
compression. That's one of the more significant weaknesses of wetsuits
versus drysuits.

Lee

Go for the bigger size.
Make absolutely shure that there is no pressure on your
throat/adam's appel area.

Enjoy diving.

Look for a good neoprene seamstress to have your suit
adjusted after 2 years or 100 dives.

Matthias

Sheldon wrote:

> "Lee Bell" <pleebell@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:l62hj.49255$N67.11624@bignews5.bellsouth.net. ..
>
>>Sheldon wrote
>>
>>
>>>You guys seemed to be divided as to comfort and really snug.
>>
>>I think you were misreading us. A wetsuit works because it traps water
>>between the suit and the body and insulates that water from ambient
>>temperature. The body warms the water, which, in turn, insulates the body.
>>Think of that water as the thermal underwear inside a drysuit. In order to
>>be effective, the wetsuit has to be snug enough to keep water exchange to
>>a minimum. If your suit does that, it's fine. If it doesn't, it's less
>>than optimal. Everything is a trade off. Even if it is not optimal, it may
>>be good enough. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. In cold water,
>>a poor seal that allows cold water in is pretty easy to recognize.
>>
>>
>>>My instructor said either would be fine, but also said it's nice to be
>>>comfortable and the ML didn't look to big.
>>
>>That's not the kind of statement that gives confidence in the instructor.
>>
>>
>>>I think the fit is right on, and thanks again for the help.
>>
>>I hope you're right.
>>
>>Lee
>
>
> While the M was strangling me somewhat, and the ML was not, the ML was still
> snug and appeared to be making a seal around my neck. After taking all this
> into account I pretty much went with Bare's recommendations (they said the
> suit will not stretch or loosen in the water). Everyplace on my body,
> except the small of my back and my upper arms, the suit fits like a glove
> right up against me. The M is just tighter, "almost" to the point of
> cutting of my circulation, and definitely tight around the neck.
>
> That said, I do agree with you. The proof is in the diving, and I won't
> really know till I get the suit in the water. Since it was purchased for
> diving in the Caribbean it can't be too much of a mistake if it is one.
>
> I'm still learning. If the worst mistake I make diving is buying a wetsuit
> that's a bit too large I'd say that' not too bad.
>
> I'll keep you posted.
>
> Sheldon
>
>

"Lee Bell" <pleeb...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Sheldon wrote
> > [Grumman wrote]
> >> Uhhh... Water is not an insulator... It conducts heat... The insulator is
> >> the neoprene... The water perhaps distributes the heat from one part of
> >> the body to another part of the body, but that just means that it is
> >> taking it from one place and moving it somewhere else... If your wetsuit
> >> is allowing this, it's probably also allowing water in from the outside....
> >
> > That's what I've heard, but there seems to be a discrepancy about this
> > fact, even in this group. *Many people still feel that your body warmsup
> > the water in the wetsuit.
>
> It does. Grumman was primarily addressing my statement that the water
> insulates your body. He's probably technically correct.

In reading through it, it was a minor slip up. The simple summary is
that with a wetsuit, warmth is generally afforded by two major
factors: how good the insulation is (neoprene thickness), and how good
is the weatherstripping (ability of the fit to minimize water
exchange).


> > I'm beginning to think the proper fit for a wetsuit is not tight but
> > rather no gaps.
>
> That would be the ideal. Some wetsuits have pads that go along the spine to
> help create a no gap fit.

Minimizing gaps will minimize the total amount of water inside the
suit with you. This is good because this means less water to be
heated, but it also generally makes it harder for your motion to
physically pump water around in the wetsuit, which invariably means
water out of the wetsuit, which then has to be replaced with cold new
water that will then be warmed up.


> > If it fits like a glove it's probably right. *If it's tight, how tightis
> > too tight?
>
> That's an excellent question. Too bad there isn't a good answer to it. If
> the suit cuts off circulation, it's too tight for sure. If it restricts
> breathing, that's also a bad sign. I have that problem with mine now. I wish
> it was because my suit shrank. It's not. Beyond that, everything is a trade
> off between a fit snug enough to keep water transfer to a minimum and one so
> snug that it's uncomfortable. The best balance is a highly individual
> decision. The easier the wetsuit material stretches, though, the better it's
> likely to fit before becoming uncomfortable.

Generally, you need to be most careful around the neck and chest for
breathing, but you also don't want it to be too tight around the
extremities as this could restrict bloodflow, and we do know that
being cold can affect DCS risk. In general, I don't go above 'snug'
for the non-respiratory parts of the body, and for my neck, I look for
what I'll call "touching". Its a balancing act, but need to remember
that it is far more important to avoid a fold or pocket that will hold
a quart than to make it 'skin tight" to squeeze out those last 6
ounces.


-hh