More dive talk

"JRE" <nothing@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:47d2815e$0$15177$607ed4bc@cv.net...
> chilly wrote:
> > "Grumman-581" <grumman581-usenet-2008@spambob.net> wrote in message
> >
newsan.2008.03.08.08.12.48.515000@grumman581-usenet-2008-spambob-net...
> >> On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 07:27:17 +0000, chilly wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Sound like you need to rethink your banana wearing practices...
> >
> > Yeah, maybe I should stuff it in the hole in my heart?
> >
> >
> >
>
> If you have a PFO and all you've had are skin bends, you've been lucky;
> I have seen Type II DCS hits result from a PFO. (Type II is CNS
> involvement.)
>
> I'm not a doctor, but in my opinion if you have a PFO you should
> consider (a) surgery--they make an "umbrella patch" they can insert via
> a catheter--or (b) other sports.

I don't know if I have PFO. I was being a bit flip in my previous comment.
As you said, it is more likely that I would have had something serious
happen by now, if that were the case.

I'll be more closely analysing my individual dives from here on in, looking
to see if there is something else I'm doing that could be contributing to
these relatively minor 'symptoms'.

chilly wrote:

>>
>>Sounds more like an affection of nerves/vertebrae, or bad sleeping habits.
>
>
> Do you think I'm sneaking a nap in on my dives?

Why not, during long decompression .

>
>
>>Like squeezing vessels by an unfortunate combination of sleep position
>>and mattress.
>
>
> That doesn't explain why I'm fine when I go into the water and have the
> symptoms when I come out of the water.

Point taken.



>
>
>>Or a problem with Vitamin B metabolisation.
>
> ??
>
>>I don't know wether a mild diabetes could create such nerve problems.
>>Vitamin B/Magnesium related problems may be exacerbated by substance abuse.
>
> ??

Drinking a certain amount of alcohol on a regular basis over extended
periods can cause an affection of nerves.


>
>
>>An important tool to differentiate is, go diving and evaluate if the
>>problem go away under pressure.
>>
>>Similar with tiredness. In diving,it is mostly a micro bubble related
>>symptom, and should go away with normobaric 100% Oxygen breathing.
>
>
> Well, I went diving the next day, did 3 or 4 dives and the day after that
> and so on and so on. I do not remember being that tired again.

So probably a good compression7decompression cycle cured it.


> I make special effort to ensure I'm well hydrated. I am not as successful
> in ensuring I am well-rested because I have had espisodes of insomnia
> throughout my adult life.

Well, insomnia can change the way the body deals with its fluid regime.
Same goes for jet lag, reason to take it easy after travels east/westward.


>>some strenous walking( 18+11+10 km) through the mountaineous heather at
>>a pace of more than 4 miles/hour.
>>Others were current, use of reel while fighting current.
>
>
> I do lots of walking and dancing, when on the majority of my dive trips.
> Which is at least two of the reasons, I'm not currently interested in a
> live-aboard dive vacation.

I haven't sen you dance, but it is exactly such activities which could
lead to risks in diving.
Exerting joints, or doing exercise with max power ( limbo..), may
further the build-up of microbubbles.

Matthias

"mat.voss" <spammat.voss@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:fr1om0$fb5$01$1@news.t-online.com...
>
>
> >>I don't know wether a mild diabetes could create such nerve problems.
> >>Vitamin B/Magnesium related problems may be exacerbated by substance
abuse.
> >
> > ??
>
> Drinking a certain amount of alcohol on a regular basis over extended
> periods can cause an affection of nerves.

I rarely drink . . that is unless I'm on vacation. :^)

> >
> > Well, I went diving the next day, did 3 or 4 dives and the day after
that
> > and so on and so on. I do not remember being that tired again.
>
> So probably a good compression7decompression cycle cured it.

Maybe. Or maybe I did just need a nap.

> > I make special effort to ensure I'm well hydrated. I am not as
successful
> > in ensuring I am well-rested because I have had espisodes of insomnia
> > throughout my adult life.
>
> Well, insomnia can change the way the body deals with its fluid regime.
> Same goes for jet lag, reason to take it easy after travels east/westward.

Most of my dive travels are from north to south.

> >>some strenous walking( 18+11+10 km) through the mountaineous heather at
> >>a pace of more than 4 miles/hour.
> >>Others were current, use of reel while fighting current.
> >
> >
> > I do lots of walking and dancing, when on the majority of my dive trips.
> > Which is at least two of the reasons, I'm not currently interested in a
> > live-aboard dive vacation.
>
> I haven't sen you dance, but it is exactly such activities which could
> lead to risks in diving.
> Exerting joints, or doing exercise with max power ( limbo..), may
> further the build-up of microbubbles.

Well, I don't do the limbo but I can do the punta. In any event, wouldln't
the further build-up of microbubbles be felt after the dancing and not after
the dive(s) the next day or so?

[Default] Thus spake "chilly" <slarson@shaw.canada>:

>I'm sorry to report that on my most recent trip, I had another mild episode
>of skin bends.
>
>This episode was significantly less troublesome/painful than last year, and
>had I not had that significant skinbend event last year, I probably wouldn't
>even have noticed this time.
>
>I really hate to start getting paranoid but . .um . . these little things
>are starting make me remember stuff over the years. For example, while on a
>gorilla dive trip in Roatan, I came out of the water one beautiful day and
>was so tired, I could hardly take care of my gear. At the time, I just
>thought I should "man-up" and so I said nothing to anyone and went home for
>a laydown, figuring I was just getting long in the tooth.

Oooops. Lots of studies in the past have indicated that extreme
exhaustion after a dive might be asymptomatic DCS. Of course, if you
have a symptom, it can't be asymptomatic, but ...

>
>Over the years, I've had the odd event of numbness around my mouth and
>tingling in my pinkie and ring fingers. Hey, I'm not talking every dive or
>even every tenth dive. These are all very little things that I just thought
>little about at the time but now, and like I said, I'm trying not to get
>paranoid, but . . ..

Yeah, I'm starting to question some of my practices. Sometimes I'm a
little too casual in what I do. Case in point, I do a lot of
photography. Has there ever been a study of accidents to
photographers vs. the general diving population?

>
>
>

[Default] Thus spake "Scott" <pugetsounddiver@gmail.com>:

>
>"Al Wells" <al.wells@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:MPG.223dbc95b2349a9d989a0e@news.verizon.net. ..
>> In article <_aadnSJQwojCe07anZ2dnUVZ_tCrnZ2d@wavecable.com> ,
>> pugetsounddiver@gmail.com says...
>> >
>> > "mat.voss" <spammat.voss@gmx.de> wrote in message
>> > news:fr0oh5$37h$03$1@news.t-online.com...
>> >
>> > > Have a closer look.
>> > > I myself have at least 4 holes in my heart.
>> > > Right side intake, right side outlet, left side intake, left side
>outlet.
>> > > I think that makes me a two-stroke.
>> >
>> > No, you have valves...
>>
>> My favorite bike (RD350) was a 2 stroke and had reed valves
>
>Amen.
>
>I had 6 of them (RD350/400's) at various times, many of my friends rode them
>too.
>
>Absolutely brutal little bikes.
>
>We had one doing 63 hp at 13,000, and the powerband was from like 8500 on;
>below that you couldn't get the clutch out.

I am with you entriely on that. Try a race ready version. I was
getting probably 75 bhp at 16K. Very nasty little monster. But I
regularly ate 500s for lunch.

I enjoyed taking my street bike out and hunting Corvettes. Back then,
crotch rockets (then known as cafe racers) were not well known or
feared.

>
>My next fave was the 650 Turbo Seca. It was like a big RD350/400 and a lot
>faster.
>
>Still, there is nothing like a 120 cubic inch Panhead in a rigid frame that
>weighs 450 pounds full.
>
>http://www.leinewebercams.com/SHOVEL...EAD%20CAMS.htm
>
>Check out the J4 and the L5 cams.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Default] Thus spake "chilly" <slarson@shaw.canada>:

>
>"mag3" <zmpmag3-plongee@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:3nv4t3dhjgh1sn6iqo7t8f2d4cjocc5cuq@4ax.com.. .
>> On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 07:27:17 GMT, "chilly" <slarson@shaw.canada> wrote:
>>
>> >I'm sorry to report that on my most recent trip, I had another mild
>episode
>> >of skin bends.
>> >
>> >This episode was significantly less troublesome/painful than last year,
>and
>> >had I not had that significant skinbend event last year, I probably
>wouldn't
>> >even have noticed this time.
>>
>> Do you recall any similarities or differences in your diving patterns that
>may
>> have brought on the symptoms as wiith previous episodes? That is, this
>time,
>> did you dive more/less often or in same/different conditions such that the
>> symptoms occured than when diving where the symtpoms did not occur?
>> Do any particular dives "stand out" this time that haven't when you don't
>> get the condition?
>>
>> Sorry, my computer brain at work....
>>
>
>Nope, I've thought that over carefully, and even last time, I couldn't think
>of anything unusual. The last time, I had had one dive, that I felt I may
>have ascended too rapidly on the last 15 feet. Other than that, nothing
>seemed out of the ordinary on any of the dives. That said, I've only just
>started to be extra observant.

I had a very good friend who took an undeserved hit in Cozumel. She
was well within the tables, first dive of the day, 16 hours since her
previous dive, well hydrated, etc. She took five rides in the chamber
before being transfered to Houston. She did another four there. She
was a quad. That was in 1995. She died about a year ago, much before
her time.

>
>> ____________________________________________
>> Regards,
>>
>> Arnold
>

"Dan Bracuk" <bracuk@pathcom.com> wrote in message
news:hev8t31ij7i0blfo6ni4dpp2o9h158cvt7@4ax.com...
> "chilly" <slarson@shaw.canada> pounded away at his keyboard resulting
> in:
>
> :Well, I don't do the limbo but I can do the punta.
>
> Like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcibCO8HwPU

Well, that's pretty tame since it has been all cleaned up for a highschool
review, but yeah, I guess that's the idea.

"Dillon Pyron" <invaliddmpyron@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:i8e9t39be1uifko3bv3umss5f461gqs3ug@4ax.com...
> [Default] Thus spake "chilly" <slarson@shaw.canada>:
>
> >gorilla dive trip in Roatan, I came out of the water one beautiful day
and
> >was so tired, I could hardly take care of my gear. At the time, I just
> >thought I should "man-up" and so I said nothing to anyone and went home
for
> >a laydown, figuring I was just getting long in the tooth.
>
> Oooops. Lots of studies in the past have indicated that extreme
> exhaustion after a dive might be asymptomatic DCS.

Well, there ya go, my thoughts exactly.

(snip)

chilly wrote:

> Well, I don't do the limbo but I can do the punta. In any event, wouldln't
> the further build-up of microbubbles be felt after the dancing and not after
> the dive(s) the next day or so?


If you feel them after the dancing, it would be the result of a massive
bubble overload, and a very bad decompression profile, typical for a
long multilevel dive with quite some time around 100 ft, no deep stops,
only a safety stop, e.g. NDL bladerunning, plus additional risks.

I attribute a higher probability to itching post dancing, because
exertion may create "points of interest" where microbubbles are likely
to be generated.
Like soda perls which always seem to originate fom the same spot in a
soda bottle.

Matthias

"mat.voss" <spammat.voss@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:fr2qig$fni$01$1@news.t-online.com...
>
>
> chilly wrote:
>
> > Well, I don't do the limbo but I can do the punta. In any event,
wouldln't
> > the further build-up of microbubbles be felt after the dancing and not
after
> > the dive(s) the next day or so?
>
>
> If you feel them after the dancing, it would be the result of a massive
> bubble overload, and a very bad decompression profile, typical for a
> long multilevel dive with quite some time around 100 ft, no deep stops,
> only a safety stop, e.g. NDL bladerunning, plus additional risks.

I do not feel them after dancing. I do deep stops.

>
> I attribute a higher probability to itching post dancing, because
> exertion may create "points of interest" where microbubbles are likely
> to be generated.

I don't itch after dancing.

> Like soda perls which always seem to originate fom the same spot in a
> soda bottle.
>
> Matthias
>