Earth Hour

On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 21:23:38 -0800, "Scott"
<pugetsounddiver@gmail.com> wrote:

>"Geoff" <geoff@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>news:140uu3dufg13cif4mb0oom504j1e4kudug@4ax.com.. .
>
><el snippo>
>
>> Get ready, it's coming anyway, because when the U.S. economy goes into
>> full recession the rest of the world won't be far behind.
>
>I guess that would be why "they" hate "us".
>
>Gotta have some one to beg for freedom from, and someone to blame when the
>social shit hits the bottom.
>

Yes, it's so typical. Hate the man because he's got something you
want/need/can't have/won't work for, whatever.

FYI, California ISO power curve of system demand peaked at about 20:00
local time at 27115 megawatts and is currently at 26199 MW at 21:33.

http://www.caiso.com/outlook/SystemStatus.html

This is the demand for ALL of California, so it looks like The Great
Green San Francisco Earth Hour didn't even make a dent. In fact, the
actual usage curve EXCEEDED the daily seasonal average by about 2000
MW.

Actual demand at 20:00 was 27095 MW falling to 26719 MW at 21:00.
It was 25067 MW at 19:00.

Demand forecast for those hours were 25119, 26846, 26492 MW.
So actual demand exceeded forecast by 249 MW for the hour between
20:00 and 21:00.

Actual generation capacity was 32687 MW at 20:00.

20:00 at this time of year and day of week is actually a peak time so
that's a good place to start hitting on reducing consumption.

"Geoff" <geoff@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:140uu3dufg13cif4mb0oom504j1e4kudug@4ax.com...

<el snippo>

> Get ready, it's coming anyway, because when the U.S. economy goes into
> full recession the rest of the world won't be far behind.

I guess that would be why "they" hate "us".

Gotta have some one to beg for freedom from, and someone to blame when the
social shit hits the bottom.

Scott wrote:

>"dazed and confuzzed" <dedmann@comcast_remove.net> wrote in message
>news:xbKdnTFfaa6fOHPanZ2dnUVZ_t3inZ2d@comcast.com ...
>
>
>
>>Scott wrote:
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Hour#Earth_Hour_2008
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>>what an asinine symbolic gesture.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>One hour, of one day.
>>
>>
>
>I was hoping someone else would recognize the folly.
>
>How about nothing that uses gasoline (meaning Persian oil) moves for one
>single day.
>
>No trains, no trucks, no airplanes, no busses, nothing moves.
>
>No one drives the kids to church or soccer.
>
>One single day of zero consumption by the entire United States.
>
>
Token gestures like Earth Hour are mainly about appeasing guilt. I turn
off the TV and sit in the dark for an hour, so I can feel I've done my
part. It's like kneeling on marbles and praying to God for my sins.
Guilt and penance. It's not only irrational, it's anti-rational.

"Paulf Foley" <paulfxfoley@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:13uuvnqlk66ln87@corp.supernews.com...

> Token gestures like Earth Hour are mainly about appeasing guilt. I turn
off the TV and sit in the dark for an hour, so I can feel I've done my
> part. It's like kneeling on marbles and praying to God for my sins.
Guilt and penance. It's not only irrational, it's anti-rational.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

On Mar 29, 10:44*pm, dazed and confuzzed <dedmann@comcast_remove.net>
wrote:
> JOF wrote:

> > So nobody should do nothin'? That'll make the world a better place fer
> > sure. Your SUV only uses a fraction more fuel than your neighbour's
> > Prius. Your old windows only leak a fraction more heat than Low-E
> > glass. Your old furnace only burns a fraction more gas than your
> > neighbour's high efficiency furnace. Have you converted your home to
> > that solar heating system you say is so readily available? Why on
> > earth would you ever inconvenience yourself to help save the world?
> > I'll bet you don't believe anything in Al Gore's movie, or anything
> > his opponents say either. I agree that Gore may be dramatizing things
> > a tad, but somewhere in the middle ground we have a problem.
>
> > Hopefully those fractions won't come back to haunt your family when
> > your great great great grandkids are strangling from the preponderance
> > of pollutants in their air, or when they're freezing cuz there's no
> > fossil fuels left to heat their houses and the bleeding hearts are
> > dancing on their graves celebrating the victory over nuclear energy
> > production. We're losing ground to our consumerism. It's time to wake
> > up and smell the coffee.
>
> > JF
>
> So:
>
> What do you drive?

We've got a Pilot and a CTS. They aren't exactly Hybrids but they
aren't bad on gas and we don't put on a lot of miles anyway. We both
do a bit of business travel in the winter and with our snowfall I like
the idea of the 4WD, expecially for my wife.

> How big is your house? Does it have triple pane glass? Are running with
> solar panels and geothermal heat, or do you burn wood and/or other
> renewables? *Do you commute to work in an auto, or do you bicycle? How
> many lights are on at your home during the evening? How many
> televisions? Computers?

Our house is only about 1500 feet. We replaced the windows in the
house about 15 years ago with pretty good ones, not Low E though. They
weren't all that well known at the time. We put a high efficiency
furnace in about 13 years ago and I've been thinking about upgrading
again. We had a contractor come in and do what he could with our
insulation, walls and roof. I took out the gas pool heater years ago.
We use timers and dimmers for lights. All our appliances are to the
current Energy Star (or whatever that is) standard. We have just one
TV in the house and two computers which we both use for our business.

> Somehow I think that you don't practice what you preach either. But I
> bet you feel good since you switched to CFL's.

Our sons started us recycling paper, glass and plastics when they were
still in public school and we still do it. And yes, we've switched to
CFL's (and they're a pita) and yes, my wife turned off all the lights
last night like a good little girl.

We're not exactly paragons of social conscience but we make a token
effort.

JF

JOF wrote:

>
> We're not exactly paragons of social conscience but we make a token
> effort.
>
> JF
>
>
My point exactly. You do what is reasonable, and economical. But it IS a
token effort. Not really any different than myself.

Our efforts to conserve really amount to very little, much like the
"earth hour".

But I (and I suspect you) don't do it just to feel good about our
"gesture".

--
“TANSTAAFL”
__________________________________________________ __________________________

America: Ironically, the safest place to be anti-American.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences." - Proverbs 22:3

On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 15:22:26 -0500, dazed and confuzzed
<dedmann@comcast_remove.net> wrote:

>Scott wrote:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Hour#Earth_Hour_2008
>>
>>
>what an asinine symbolic gesture.
>
>One hour, of one day.

I thought it was a meaningless gesture and I wasn't going to comply.

My wife suggested we turn off everything and go upstairs, and gave me
a wink. I happily complied.

On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 08:11:16 -0700, JOF wrote:

> Our house is only about 1500 feet.

What some people might fail to realize though is that 1500 sq-ft up there
is not the same as 1500 sq-ft down here... Up there, a house is likely to
have a basement under the entire 1500 sq-ft living area in addition to
possibly even under an attached garage and that does not count in the
living space of the house when it is sold...

--
See NNTP header field "X-Real-Email-Address" to reply by email.

"dazed and confuzzed" <dedmann@comcast_remove.net> wrote in message
news:z5mdnYcFSq19J3LanZ2dnUVZ_jqdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..

> My point exactly. You do what is reasonable, and economical. But it IS a
> token effort. Not really any different than myself.

> Our efforts to conserve really amount to very little, much like the
> "earth hour".

> But I (and I suspect you) don't do it just to feel good about our
> "gesture".

I just gestured $75 worth of conservation into our 5 liter V8, all wheel
drive, 5100lb Explorer.

"Geoff" <geoff@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:5n5uu3pit27smgcus3rri7ea9016t6mn2q@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 21:23:38 -0800, "Scott"
> <pugetsounddiver@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >"Geoff" <geoff@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> >news:140uu3dufg13cif4mb0oom504j1e4kudug@4ax.com.. .
> >
> ><el snippo>
> >
> >> Get ready, it's coming anyway, because when the U.S. economy goes into
> >> full recession the rest of the world won't be far behind.
> >
> >I guess that would be why "they" hate "us".
> >
> >Gotta have some one to beg for freedom from, and someone to blame when
the
> >social shit hits the bottom.
> >
>
> Yes, it's so typical. Hate the man because he's got something you
> want/need/can't have/won't work for, whatever.
>
> FYI, California ISO power curve of system demand peaked at about 20:00
> local time at 27115 megawatts and is currently at 26199 MW at 21:33.
>
> http://www.caiso.com/outlook/SystemStatus.html
>
> This is the demand for ALL of California, so it looks like The Great
> Green San Francisco Earth Hour didn't even make a dent. In fact, the
> actual usage curve EXCEEDED the daily seasonal average by about 2000
> MW.
>
> Actual demand at 20:00 was 27095 MW falling to 26719 MW at 21:00.
> It was 25067 MW at 19:00.
>
> Demand forecast for those hours were 25119, 26846, 26492 MW.
> So actual demand exceeded forecast by 249 MW for the hour between
> 20:00 and 21:00.
>
> Actual generation capacity was 32687 MW at 20:00.
>
> 20:00 at this time of year and day of week is actually a peak time so
> that's a good place to start hitting on reducing consumption.

One must wonder how "they" are going to spin the fact that their little
circle-jerk/circus didn't amount to a spec of flea shit on an elephants ass.

My electric comes from a hydro plant about 5 miles away...