Earth Hour

On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 20:04:31 -0500, dazed and confuzzed wrote:

> But generally no one is willing to be inconvenienced to make any changes.

Hey, I had to replace all my dimmer switches when I switched to compact
fluorescent bulbs... Not being able to dim my lights is an inconvenience,
isn't it?

<grin>

--
See NNTP header field "X-Real-Email-Address" to reply by email.

"dazed and confuzzed" <dedmann@comcast_remove.net> wrote in message
news:Xc2dneUdE_ECpW3anZ2dnUVZ_qKgnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> dechucka wrote:
>
>> "dazed and confuzzed" <dedmann@comcast_remove.net> wrote in message
>> news:s-idnSQCYoM2gm3anZ2dnUVZ_uidnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>
>>>JOF wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Mar 30, 5:59 pm, Geoff <ge...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:16:25 -0700 (PDT), JOF <jofran...@gmail.com>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>If we build a new place it won't be any bigger than what we have
>>>>>>already.
>>>>>
>>>>>What? Build a new place? With all those trees sacrificed for the wood
>>>>>to make it? How anti-green can you be?
>>>>>How about all those petrochemicals to make the new shingles for the
>>>>>new place not to mention all the new furniture, plywood and
>>>>>formaldehyde gas it will emit for the next 20 years? Make sure you
>>>>>double insulated and hyper seal it to keep the formaldehyde inside.
>>>>>But be sure to turn off the lights so you don't consume too much
>>>>>energy. :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>We're into steel studs up here now although the trusses are generally
>>>>still wood. It's either build new or replace the roof on the old
>>>>Where's the saving there? We use air exchangers here now to try to
>>>>abate the toxin containment. Some of our new houses are smart houses
>>>>that automagically control things like lights and heat. Not sure if
>>>>I'd go to that extent or not.
>>>>
>>>>Hey, you're probably right about avoiding the token gestures. Why
>>>>encourage folks to be environmentally responsible when for the
>>>>majority it will only be a token gesture? The earth is probably
>>>>destined for breakdown anyway so why delay the inevitable, right?
>>>>
>>>>JF
>>>
>>>TOken gestures are just that, tokens. THey have no real effect to change
>>>people's lifestyles. It just makes them feel good.
>>>
>>>And that's what you folks are all about, isn't it?
>>
>>
>> you've got a problem with feeling good?
>
> I do when the gesture that makes you feel good for doing something is
> empty and meaningless.

I tend to agree with you, coming home from Sydney last night the city was
ablaze and this was a Sunday night. This was after all of the photos in the
paper of the city "blacked" out

>
> If these folks actually did something that required some lifestyle change,
> then they wouldn't be token gestures. If the gestures resulted in some
> meaningful change they wouldn't be meaningless "token" gestures.

I feel good because I have the solar hot water system and 6 solar panels
that pump any access power back into the grid. IMHO every new house or
renovated house should be made to have solar panels, the cost in the great
schemes of things would not be that great and would come down as the number
of panel produced is increased.

>
> But generally no one is willing to be inconvenienced to make any changes.

Even with subsidies and carbon credits a lot of the changes can also be
expensive. The hybrid cars here in Aus come at a premium to the equivalent
cars and may I say are a pain in the arse when they prang and we have water
spraying around with the battery system

dechucka wrote:

> "dazed and confuzzed" <dedmann@comcast_remove.net> wrote in message
> news:Xc2dneUdE_ECpW3anZ2dnUVZ_qKgnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>
>>dechucka wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"dazed and confuzzed" <dedmann@comcast_remove.net> wrote in message
>>>news:s-idnSQCYoM2gm3anZ2dnUVZ_uidnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>JOF wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Mar 30, 5:59 pm, Geoff <ge...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:16:25 -0700 (PDT), JOF <jofran...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>If we build a new place it won't be any bigger than what we have
>>>>>>>already.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>What? Build a new place? With all those trees sacrificed for the wood
>>>>>>to make it? How anti-green can you be?
>>>>>>How about all those petrochemicals to make the new shingles for the
>>>>>>new place not to mention all the new furniture, plywood and
>>>>>>formaldehyde gas it will emit for the next 20 years? Make sure you
>>>>>>double insulated and hyper seal it to keep the formaldehyde inside.
>>>>>>But be sure to turn off the lights so you don't consume too much
>>>>>>energy. :)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>We're into steel studs up here now although the trusses are generally
>>>>>still wood. It's either build new or replace the roof on the old
>>>>>Where's the saving there? We use air exchangers here now to try to
>>>>>abate the toxin containment. Some of our new houses are smart houses
>>>>>that automagically control things like lights and heat. Not sure if
>>>>>I'd go to that extent or not.
>>>>>
>>>>>Hey, you're probably right about avoiding the token gestures. Why
>>>>>encourage folks to be environmentally responsible when for the
>>>>>majority it will only be a token gesture? The earth is probably
>>>>>destined for breakdown anyway so why delay the inevitable, right?
>>>>>
>>>>>JF
>>>>
>>>>TOken gestures are just that, tokens. THey have no real effect to change
>>>>people's lifestyles. It just makes them feel good.
>>>>
>>>>And that's what you folks are all about, isn't it?
>>>
>>>
>>>you've got a problem with feeling good?
>>
>>I do when the gesture that makes you feel good for doing something is
>>empty and meaningless.
>
>
> I tend to agree with you, coming home from Sydney last night the city was
> ablaze and this was a Sunday night. This was after all of the photos in the
> paper of the city "blacked" out

So most folks earned nothing, and there fore the "gesture" was at best
symbolic.
>
>
>>If these folks actually did something that required some lifestyle change,
>>then they wouldn't be token gestures. If the gestures resulted in some
>>meaningful change they wouldn't be meaningless "token" gestures.
>
>
> I feel good because I have the solar hot water system and 6 solar panels
> that pump any access power back into the grid. IMHO every new house or
> renovated house should be made to have solar panels, the cost in the great
> schemes of things would not be that great and would come down as the number
> of panel produced is increased.

That is meaningful change. How much does it decrease you electric bill?
And your gas consumption? What is the payback time for a system like that?
>
>
>>But generally no one is willing to be inconvenienced to make any changes.
>
>
> Even with subsidies and carbon credits a lot of the changes can also be
> expensive. The hybrid cars here in Aus come at a premium to the equivalent
> cars and may I say are a pain in the arse when they prang and we have water
> spraying around with the battery system
>
>


--
“TANSTAAFL”
__________________________________________________ __________________________

America: Ironically, the safest place to be anti-American.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences." - Proverbs 22:3

"dazed and confuzzed" <dedmann@comcast_remove.net> wrote in message
newsbidnRxQwp922G3anZ2dnUVZ_v2pnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> dechucka wrote:
>
>> "dazed and confuzzed" <dedmann@comcast_remove.net> wrote in message
>> news:Xc2dneUdE_ECpW3anZ2dnUVZ_qKgnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>>
>>>dechucka wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"dazed and confuzzed" <dedmann@comcast_remove.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:s-idnSQCYoM2gm3anZ2dnUVZ_uidnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>JOF wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Mar 30, 5:59 pm, Geoff <ge...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:16:25 -0700 (PDT), JOF <jofran...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>If we build a new place it won't be any bigger than what we have
>>>>>>>>already.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>What? Build a new place? With all those trees sacrificed for the wood
>>>>>>>to make it? How anti-green can you be?
>>>>>>>How about all those petrochemicals to make the new shingles for the
>>>>>>>new place not to mention all the new furniture, plywood and
>>>>>>>formaldehyde gas it will emit for the next 20 years? Make sure you
>>>>>>>double insulated and hyper seal it to keep the formaldehyde inside.
>>>>>>>But be sure to turn off the lights so you don't consume too much
>>>>>>>energy. :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>We're into steel studs up here now although the trusses are generally
>>>>>>still wood. It's either build new or replace the roof on the old
>>>>>>Where's the saving there? We use air exchangers here now to try to
>>>>>>abate the toxin containment. Some of our new houses are smart houses
>>>>>>that automagically control things like lights and heat. Not sure if
>>>>>>I'd go to that extent or not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Hey, you're probably right about avoiding the token gestures. Why
>>>>>>encourage folks to be environmentally responsible when for the
>>>>>>majority it will only be a token gesture? The earth is probably
>>>>>>destined for breakdown anyway so why delay the inevitable, right?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>JF
>>>>>
>>>>>TOken gestures are just that, tokens. THey have no real effect to
>>>>>change people's lifestyles. It just makes them feel good.
>>>>>
>>>>>And that's what you folks are all about, isn't it?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>you've got a problem with feeling good?
>>>
>>>I do when the gesture that makes you feel good for doing something is
>>>empty and meaningless.
>>
>>
>> I tend to agree with you, coming home from Sydney last night the city was
>> ablaze and this was a Sunday night. This was after all of the photos in
>> the paper of the city "blacked" out
>
> So most folks earned nothing, and there fore the "gesture" was at best
> symbolic.
>>
>>
>>>If these folks actually did something that required some lifestyle
>>>change, then they wouldn't be token gestures. If the gestures resulted in
>>>some meaningful change they wouldn't be meaningless "token" gestures.
>>
>>
>> I feel good because I have the solar hot water system and 6 solar panels
>> that pump any access power back into the grid. IMHO every new house or
>> renovated house should be made to have solar panels, the cost in the
>> great schemes of things would not be that great and would come down as
>> the number of panel produced is increased.
>
> That is meaningful change. How much does it decrease you electric bill?
> And your gas consumption? What is the payback time for a system like that?

Don't know about the electricity bill yet re the solar panels because they
haven't been in that long they haven't been in for a year and any saving in
a shorter period I think a meaningless. It will be interesting what the
difference is because we don't have town water so use a lot of electricity
running pumps and also things like electric fences. The solar hot water
system made a considerable difference to our power bill and we have work out
a payback period of about 5 years. No town gas so use bottled gas but only
for cooking.

dechucka wrote:

> "dazed and confuzzed" <dedmann@comcast_remove.net> wrote in message
> newsbidnRxQwp922G3anZ2dnUVZ_v2pnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>
>>dechucka wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"dazed and confuzzed" <dedmann@comcast_remove.net> wrote in message
>>>news:Xc2dneUdE_ECpW3anZ2dnUVZ_qKgnZ2d@comcast.c om...
>>>
>>>
>>>>dechucka wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"dazed and confuzzed" <dedmann@comcast_remove.net> wrote in message
>>>>>news:s-idnSQCYoM2gm3anZ2dnUVZ_uidnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>JOF wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Mar 30, 5:59 pm, Geoff <ge...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:16:25 -0700 (PDT), JOF <jofran...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>If we build a new place it won't be any bigger than what we have
>>>>>>>>>already.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>What? Build a new place? With all those trees sacrificed for the wood
>>>>>>>>to make it? How anti-green can you be?
>>>>>>>>How about all those petrochemicals to make the new shingles for the
>>>>>>>>new place not to mention all the new furniture, plywood and
>>>>>>>>formaldehyde gas it will emit for the next 20 years? Make sure you
>>>>>>>>double insulated and hyper seal it to keep the formaldehyde inside.
>>>>>>>>But be sure to turn off the lights so you don't consume too much
>>>>>>>>energy. :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>We're into steel studs up here now although the trusses are generally
>>>>>>>still wood. It's either build new or replace the roof on the old
>>>>>>>Where's the saving there? We use air exchangers here now to try to
>>>>>>>abate the toxin containment. Some of our new houses are smart houses
>>>>>>>that automagically control things like lights and heat. Not sure if
>>>>>>>I'd go to that extent or not.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Hey, you're probably right about avoiding the token gestures. Why
>>>>>>>encourage folks to be environmentally responsible when for the
>>>>>>>majority it will only be a token gesture? The earth is probably
>>>>>>>destined for breakdown anyway so why delay the inevitable, right?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>JF
>>>>>>
>>>>>>TOken gestures are just that, tokens. THey have no real effect to
>>>>>>change people's lifestyles. It just makes them feel good.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>And that's what you folks are all about, isn't it?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>you've got a problem with feeling good?
>>>>
>>>>I do when the gesture that makes you feel good for doing something is
>>>>empty and meaningless.
>>>
>>>
>>>I tend to agree with you, coming home from Sydney last night the city was
>>>ablaze and this was a Sunday night. This was after all of the photos in
>>>the paper of the city "blacked" out
>>
>>So most folks earned nothing, and there fore the "gesture" was at best
>>symbolic.
>>
>>>
>>>>If these folks actually did something that required some lifestyle
>>>>change, then they wouldn't be token gestures. If the gestures resulted in
>>>>some meaningful change they wouldn't be meaningless "token" gestures.
>>>
>>>
>>>I feel good because I have the solar hot water system and 6 solar panels
>>>that pump any access power back into the grid. IMHO every new house or
>>>renovated house should be made to have solar panels, the cost in the
>>>great schemes of things would not be that great and would come down as
>>>the number of panel produced is increased.
>>
>>That is meaningful change. How much does it decrease you electric bill?
>>And your gas consumption? What is the payback time for a system like that?
>
>
> Don't know about the electricity bill yet re the solar panels because they
> haven't been in that long they haven't been in for a year and any saving in
> a shorter period I think a meaningless. It will be interesting what the
> difference is because we don't have town water so use a lot of electricity
> running pumps and also things like electric fences. The solar hot water
> system made a considerable difference to our power bill and we have work out
> a payback period of about 5 years. No town gas so use bottled gas but only
> for cooking.
>
>

That's pretty significant.

Let me know what the payback works out to be on the solar setup.

--
“TANSTAAFL”
__________________________________________________ __________________________

America: Ironically, the safest place to be anti-American.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences." - Proverbs 22:3

"dazed and confuzzed" <dedmann@comcast_remove.net> wrote in message
news:TOWdnYVbFa0Izm3anZ2dnUVZ_oTinZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> dechucka wrote:
>
>> "dazed and confuzzed" <dedmann@comcast_remove.net> wrote in message
>> newsbidnRxQwp922G3anZ2dnUVZ_v2pnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>>
>>>dechucka wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"dazed and confuzzed" <dedmann@comcast_remove.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:Xc2dneUdE_ECpW3anZ2dnUVZ_qKgnZ2d@comcast. com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>dechucka wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"dazed and confuzzed" <dedmann@comcast_remove.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:s-idnSQCYoM2gm3anZ2dnUVZ_uidnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>JOF wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Mar 30, 5:59 pm, Geoff <ge...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:16:25 -0700 (PDT), JOF <jofran...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>If we build a new place it won't be any bigger than what we have
>>>>>>>>>>already.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>What? Build a new place? With all those trees sacrificed for the
>>>>>>>>>wood
>>>>>>>>>to make it? How anti-green can you be?
>>>>>>>>>How about all those petrochemicals to make the new shingles for the
>>>>>>>>>new place not to mention all the new furniture, plywood and
>>>>>>>>>formaldehyde gas it will emit for the next 20 years? Make sure you
>>>>>>>>>double insulated and hyper seal it to keep the formaldehyde inside.
>>>>>>>>>But be sure to turn off the lights so you don't consume too much
>>>>>>>>>energy. :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>We're into steel studs up here now although the trusses are
>>>>>>>>generally
>>>>>>>>still wood. It's either build new or replace the roof on the old
>>>>>>>>Where's the saving there? We use air exchangers here now to try to
>>>>>>>>abate the toxin containment. Some of our new houses are smart houses
>>>>>>>>that automagically control things like lights and heat. Not sure if
>>>>>>>>I'd go to that extent or not.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Hey, you're probably right about avoiding the token gestures. Why
>>>>>>>>encourage folks to be environmentally responsible when for the
>>>>>>>>majority it will only be a token gesture? The earth is probably
>>>>>>>>destined for breakdown anyway so why delay the inevitable, right?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>JF
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>TOken gestures are just that, tokens. THey have no real effect to
>>>>>>>change people's lifestyles. It just makes them feel good.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>And that's what you folks are all about, isn't it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>you've got a problem with feeling good?
>>>>>
>>>>>I do when the gesture that makes you feel good for doing something is
>>>>>empty and meaningless.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I tend to agree with you, coming home from Sydney last night the city
>>>>was ablaze and this was a Sunday night. This was after all of the photos
>>>>in the paper of the city "blacked" out
>>>
>>>So most folks earned nothing, and there fore the "gesture" was at best
>>>symbolic.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>If these folks actually did something that required some lifestyle
>>>>>change, then they wouldn't be token gestures. If the gestures resulted
>>>>>in some meaningful change they wouldn't be meaningless "token"
>>>>>gestures.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I feel good because I have the solar hot water system and 6 solar panels
>>>>that pump any access power back into the grid. IMHO every new house or
>>>>renovated house should be made to have solar panels, the cost in the
>>>>great schemes of things would not be that great and would come down as
>>>>the number of panel produced is increased.
>>>
>>>That is meaningful change. How much does it decrease you electric bill?
>>>And your gas consumption? What is the payback time for a system like
>>>that?
>>
>>
>> Don't know about the electricity bill yet re the solar panels because
>> they haven't been in that long they haven't been in for a year and any
>> saving in a shorter period I think a meaningless. It will be interesting
>> what the difference is because we don't have town water so use a lot of
>> electricity running pumps and also things like electric fences. The solar
>> hot water system made a considerable difference to our power bill and we
>> have work out a payback period of about 5 years. No town gas so use
>> bottled gas but only for cooking.
>
> That's pretty significant.
>
> Let me know what the payback works out to be on the solar setup.

will do thanks for the interest

On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:26:29 -0700 (PDT), JOF <jofrancis@gmail.com>
wrote:

>We're into steel studs up here now although the trusses are generally
>still wood.

Ah! Steel frames. You mean iron and carbon alloyed with some manganese
and copper cooked in electric blast furnaces with oxygen and coke (not
the soda) made from coal. It only takes about 440 kWh per ton, (not
counting the power it took to produce the coke) to produce steel so
I'm sure there's a big savings there. Not to worry though, coke is
made from low-sulfur coal and we export a lot of that. Coke is also
produced in New South Wales, Australia. --- Hey! Wasn't that one of
the cities in the EH contingent last night? I bet it was. Wow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coke_%28fuel%29

One major byproduct of coke production is carbon monoxide and
hydrogen. They "purify" the hydrogen by passing the gas through water
vapor to get pure hydrogen and carbon dioxide gas. You can use the
hydrogen to help stoke the heating of the coke. Not sure what they do
with the carbon dioxide. Maybe they liquefy it and use it to blend
with Coke, the soda. Of course liquefying CO2 takes compressors and
expansion coolers and they run on electricity. Hmm... maybe they just
vent it to the air?

Steel is what made Gary Indiana, Cleveland Ohio and Pittsburgh
Pennsylvania such garden cities before America became "enlightened"
and outsourced steel making to Japan. Wonder how many Americans lost
their jobs when than business folded. Not to worry, they probably got
jobs in IT or went for MBA degrees so they could run large American
corporations like McDonalds or Wal-Mart.

Steel is also a major component of hybrid vehicles. Sure wish we still
made automobiles here too. I bet a lot of trees were saved by not
using wood studs. A lot of GHG too. Wait... isn't CO2 a GHG? Where did
I see something about CO2 and steel...

"Geoff" <geoff@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:kdo0v3hf6vunrq26j37l4rha65t4qetd0b@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:26:29 -0700 (PDT), JOF <jofrancis@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>We're into steel studs up here now although the trusses are generally
>>still wood.
>
> Ah! Steel frames. You mean iron and carbon alloyed with some manganese
> and copper cooked in electric blast furnaces with oxygen and coke (not
> the soda) made from coal. It only takes about 440 kWh per ton, (not
> counting the power it took to produce the coke) to produce steel so
> I'm sure there's a big savings there. Not to worry though, coke is
> made from low-sulfur coal and we export a lot of that. Coke is also
> produced in New South Wales, Australia. --- Hey! Wasn't that one of
> the cities in the EH contingent last night? I bet it was. Wow.

NSW is a State of the Commonwealth of Australia, Capital city Sydney. NSW is
famous for coal fired power stations, dirty coal and the building of an
unneeded desalination plant that is expensive in power and money as they
don't want to recycle water

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 15:50:38 +1100, "dechucka"
<dechucka@vomithotmail.com> wrote:

>
>"Geoff" <geoff@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>news:kdo0v3hf6vunrq26j37l4rha65t4qetd0b@4ax.com.. .
>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:26:29 -0700 (PDT), JOF <jofrancis@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>We're into steel studs up here now although the trusses are generally
>>>still wood.
>>
>> Ah! Steel frames. You mean iron and carbon alloyed with some manganese
>> and copper cooked in electric blast furnaces with oxygen and coke (not
>> the soda) made from coal. It only takes about 440 kWh per ton, (not
>> counting the power it took to produce the coke) to produce steel so
>> I'm sure there's a big savings there. Not to worry though, coke is
>> made from low-sulfur coal and we export a lot of that. Coke is also
>> produced in New South Wales, Australia. --- Hey! Wasn't that one of
>> the cities in the EH contingent last night? I bet it was. Wow.
>
>NSW is a State of the Commonwealth of Australia, Capital city Sydney. NSW is
>famous for coal fired power stations, dirty coal and the building of an
>unneeded desalination plant that is expensive in power and money as they
>don't want to recycle water
>

Thanks for the correction! That's right, Sidney, NSW, Australia. The
city with the sometimes-dark Opera House and the Harbor Bridge. Origin
of Earth Hour.

"Geoff" <geoff@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:m3s0v31hr1kqmjs2jt1idaonbhk6s93lgm@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 15:50:38 +1100, "dechucka"
> <dechucka@vomithotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Geoff" <geoff@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>news:kdo0v3hf6vunrq26j37l4rha65t4qetd0b@4ax.com. ..
>>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:26:29 -0700 (PDT), JOF <jofrancis@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>We're into steel studs up here now although the trusses are generally
>>>>still wood.
>>>
>>> Ah! Steel frames. You mean iron and carbon alloyed with some manganese
>>> and copper cooked in electric blast furnaces with oxygen and coke (not
>>> the soda) made from coal. It only takes about 440 kWh per ton, (not
>>> counting the power it took to produce the coke) to produce steel so
>>> I'm sure there's a big savings there. Not to worry though, coke is
>>> made from low-sulfur coal and we export a lot of that. Coke is also
>>> produced in New South Wales, Australia. --- Hey! Wasn't that one of
>>> the cities in the EH contingent last night? I bet it was. Wow.
>>
>>NSW is a State of the Commonwealth of Australia, Capital city Sydney. NSW
>>is
>>famous for coal fired power stations, dirty coal and the building of an
>>unneeded desalination plant that is expensive in power and money as they
>>don't want to recycle water
>>
>
> Thanks for the correction! That's right, Sidney, NSW, Australia. The
> city with the sometimes-dark Opera House and the Harbor Bridge. Origin
> of Earth Hour.


with a "y' please. Was Sydney really the originator of earth hour?