Earth Hour

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Hour#Earth_Hour_2008

Scott wrote:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Hour#Earth_Hour_2008
>
>
what an asinine symbolic gesture.

One hour, of one day.



--
“TANSTAAFL”
__________________________________________________ __________________________

America: Ironically, the safest place to be anti-American.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences." - Proverbs 22:3

On Mar 29, 4:22*pm, dazed and confuzzed <dedmann@comcast_remove.net>
wrote:
> Scott wrote:
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Hour#Earth_Hour_2008
>
> what an asinine symbolic gesture.
>
> One hour, of one day.

You think it's asinine to care a little bit about the condition of the
planet? Sure the hour won't fix anything on it's own account, but it
seems to me one of our own members takes the trouble to use some
pretty off the wall alternative fuels for his truck. Perhaps you
remember reading something about that?

What's so asinine about a whole lot of folks sending a message that
they care and are proactively encouraging more folks to get with the
programme, any programme, as long as it might help to get a little
more mileage out of our world as we know it?

JF

"dazed and confuzzed" <dedmann@comcast_remove.net> wrote in message
news:xbKdnTFfaa6fOHPanZ2dnUVZ_t3inZ2d@comcast.com. ..

> Scott wrote:

> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Hour#Earth_Hour_2008

> what an asinine symbolic gesture.

> One hour, of one day.

I was hoping someone else would recognize the folly.

How about nothing that uses gasoline (meaning Persian oil) moves for one
single day.

No trains, no trucks, no airplanes, no busses, nothing moves.

No one drives the kids to church or soccer.

One single day of zero consumption by the entire United States.

On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 13:45:13 -0700 (PDT), JOF <jofrancis@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Mar 29, 4:22*pm, dazed and confuzzed <dedmann@comcast_remove.net>
>wrote:
>> Scott wrote:
>> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Hour#Earth_Hour_2008
>>
>> what an asinine symbolic gesture.
>>
>> One hour, of one day.
>
>You think it's asinine to care a little bit about the condition of the
>planet? Sure the hour won't fix anything on it's own account, but it
>seems to me one of our own members takes the trouble to use some
>pretty off the wall alternative fuels for his truck. Perhaps you
>remember reading something about that?
>
>What's so asinine about a whole lot of folks sending a message that
>they care and are proactively encouraging more folks to get with the
>programme, any programme, as long as it might help to get a little
>more mileage out of our world as we know it?
>
>JF
>
>

Because 1 hour out of 8760 in a year is 0.011% of that year and a 10%
reduction (optimistically estimating) for that 1 hour in a few cities
is a fraction of total annual energy consumption for the world.
Result: Empty gesture.

How many people even knew of it in advance? I know I didn't.


Want to get more mileage out of our world? 99.98% of energy received
on earth is solar. Amounting to about 1000 to 1550 Watts per square
meter depending on who you want to believe. This amounts to 127 x
10^15 Watts falling on Earth every day. How about lighting your city
with solar power instead of coal, nuclear or oil? You only have to do
1/2 the job too, the sun will do it the rest of the time. :)

JOF wrote:

> On Mar 29, 4:22 pm, dazed and confuzzed <dedmann@comcast_remove.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Scott wrote:
>>
>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Hour#Earth_Hour_2008
>>
>>what an asinine symbolic gesture.
>>
>>One hour, of one day.
>
>
> You think it's asinine to care a little bit about the condition of the
> planet? Sure the hour won't fix anything on it's own account, but it
> seems to me one of our own members takes the trouble to use some
> pretty off the wall alternative fuels for his truck. Perhaps you
> remember reading something about that?
>
> What's so asinine about a whole lot of folks sending a message that
> they care and are proactively encouraging more folks to get with the
> programme, any programme, as long as it might help to get a little
> more mileage out of our world as we know it?
>
> JF
>
>
>
It's asinine because everyone follows along and says what a wonderful
thing it is. It's a Kumbayah moment, then everyone goes home in their
SUV, to a multi thousand square foot home in the suburbs, and leaves all
of their lights on, their computers running, and feels good about
themselves.

Ultimately, it changes nothing.

The alternative fuels issue is purely economic. Any benefit to the
planet is just a bonus.

But I don't pretend to be altruistic for it.

If they really believed, then the buildings would stay dark 365. But
they don't.

Nor will the participants of this charade change their lifestyle enough
(if any) to matter.



--
“TANSTAAFL”
__________________________________________________ __________________________

America: Ironically, the safest place to be anti-American.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences." - Proverbs 22:3

On Mar 29, 6:07*pm, Geoff <ge...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 13:45:13 -0700 (PDT), JOF <jofran...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Mar 29, 4:22*pm, dazed and confuzzed <dedmann@comcast_remove.net>
> >wrote:
> >> Scott wrote:
> >> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Hour#Earth_Hour_2008
>
> >> what an asinine symbolic gesture.
>
> >> One hour, of one day.
>
> >You think it's asinine to care a little bit about the condition of the
> >planet? Sure the hour won't fix anything on it's own account, but it
> >seems to me one of our own members takes the trouble to use some
> >pretty off the wall alternative fuels for his truck. Perhaps you
> >remember reading something about that?
>
> >What's so asinine about a whole lot of folks sending a message that
> >they care and are proactively encouraging more folks to get with the
> >programme, any programme, as long as it might help to get a little
> >more mileage out of our world as we know it?
>
> >JF
>
> Because 1 hour out of 8760 in a year is 0.011% of that year and a 10%
> reduction (optimistically estimating) for that 1 hour in a few cities
> is a fraction of total annual energy consumption for the world.
> Result: Empty gesture.
>
> How many people even knew of it in advance? I know I didn't.
>
> Want to get more mileage out of our world? 99.98% of energy received
> on earth is solar. Amounting to about 1000 to 1550 Watts per square
> meter depending on who you want to believe. This amounts to 127 x
> 10^15 Watts falling on Earth every day. How about lighting your city
> with solar power instead of coal, nuclear or oil? You only have to do
> 1/2 the job too, the sun will do it the rest of the time. :)-

So nobody should do nothin'? That'll make the world a better place fer
sure. Your SUV only uses a fraction more fuel than your neighbour's
Prius. Your old windows only leak a fraction more heat than Low-E
glass. Your old furnace only burns a fraction more gas than your
neighbour's high efficiency furnace. Have you converted your home to
that solar heating system you say is so readily available? Why on
earth would you ever inconvenience yourself to help save the world?
I'll bet you don't believe anything in Al Gore's movie, or anything
his opponents say either. I agree that Gore may be dramatizing things
a tad, but somewhere in the middle ground we have a problem.

Hopefully those fractions won't come back to haunt your family when
your great great great grandkids are strangling from the preponderance
of pollutants in their air, or when they're freezing cuz there's no
fossil fuels left to heat their houses and the bleeding hearts are
dancing on their graves celebrating the victory over nuclear energy
production. We're losing ground to our consumerism. It's time to wake
up and smell the coffee.

JF

JOF wrote:

> On Mar 29, 6:07 pm, Geoff <ge...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 13:45:13 -0700 (PDT), JOF <jofran...@gmail.com>
>>wrote:

<snip>

> So nobody should do nothin'? That'll make the world a better place fer
> sure. Your SUV only uses a fraction more fuel than your neighbour's
> Prius. Your old windows only leak a fraction more heat than Low-E
> glass. Your old furnace only burns a fraction more gas than your
> neighbour's high efficiency furnace. Have you converted your home to
> that solar heating system you say is so readily available? Why on
> earth would you ever inconvenience yourself to help save the world?
> I'll bet you don't believe anything in Al Gore's movie, or anything
> his opponents say either. I agree that Gore may be dramatizing things
> a tad, but somewhere in the middle ground we have a problem.
>
> Hopefully those fractions won't come back to haunt your family when
> your great great great grandkids are strangling from the preponderance
> of pollutants in their air, or when they're freezing cuz there's no
> fossil fuels left to heat their houses and the bleeding hearts are
> dancing on their graves celebrating the victory over nuclear energy
> production. We're losing ground to our consumerism. It's time to wake
> up and smell the coffee.
>
> JF

So:

What do you drive?

How big is your house? Does it have triple pane glass? Are running with
solar panels and geothermal heat, or do you burn wood and/or other
renewables? Do you commute to work in an auto, or do you bicycle? How
many lights are on at your home during the evening? How many
televisions? Computers?

Somehow I think that you don't practice what you preach either. But I
bet you feel good since you switched to CFL's.

--
“TANSTAAFL”
__________________________________________________ __________________________

America: Ironically, the safest place to be anti-American.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences." - Proverbs 22:3

JOF wrote:

> On Mar 29, 6:07 pm, Geoff <ge...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 13:45:13 -0700 (PDT), JOF <jofran...@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>On Mar 29, 4:22 pm, dazed and confuzzed <dedmann@comcast_remove.net>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>Scott wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Hour#Earth_Hour_2008
>>
>>>>what an asinine symbolic gesture.
>>
>>>>One hour, of one day.
>>
>>>You think it's asinine to care a little bit about the condition of the
>>>planet? Sure the hour won't fix anything on it's own account, but it
>>>seems to me one of our own members takes the trouble to use some
>>>pretty off the wall alternative fuels for his truck. Perhaps you
>>>remember reading something about that?
>>
>>>What's so asinine about a whole lot of folks sending a message that
>>>they care and are proactively encouraging more folks to get with the
>>>programme, any programme, as long as it might help to get a little
>>>more mileage out of our world as we know it?
>>
>>>JF
>>
>>Because 1 hour out of 8760 in a year is 0.011% of that year and a 10%
>>reduction (optimistically estimating) for that 1 hour in a few cities
>>is a fraction of total annual energy consumption for the world.
>>Result: Empty gesture.
>>
>>How many people even knew of it in advance? I know I didn't.
>>
>>Want to get more mileage out of our world? 99.98% of energy received
>>on earth is solar. Amounting to about 1000 to 1550 Watts per square
>>meter depending on who you want to believe. This amounts to 127 x
>>10^15 Watts falling on Earth every day. How about lighting your city
>>with solar power instead of coal, nuclear or oil? You only have to do
>>1/2 the job too, the sun will do it the rest of the time. :)-
>
>
> So nobody should do nothin'? That'll make the world a better place fer
> sure. Your SUV only uses a fraction more fuel than your neighbour's
> Prius. Your old windows only leak a fraction more heat than Low-E
> glass. Your old furnace only burns a fraction more gas than your
> neighbour's high efficiency furnace. Have you converted your home to
> that solar heating system you say is so readily available? Why on
> earth would you ever inconvenience yourself to help save the world?
> I'll bet you don't believe anything in Al Gore's movie, or anything
> his opponents say either. I agree that Gore may be dramatizing things
> a tad, but somewhere in the middle ground we have a problem.
>
> Hopefully those fractions won't come back to haunt your family when
> your great great great grandkids are strangling from the preponderance
> of pollutants in their air, or when they're freezing cuz there's no
> fossil fuels left to heat their houses and the bleeding hearts are
> dancing on their graves celebrating the victory over nuclear energy
> production. We're losing ground to our consumerism. It's time to wake
> up and smell the coffee.
>
> JF

Apparently, it isn't working in AUS:

http://timblair.net/ee/index.php/web...rkage_boosted/

--
“TANSTAAFL”
__________________________________________________ __________________________

America: Ironically, the safest place to be anti-American.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences." - Proverbs 22:3

On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 19:36:49 -0700 (PDT), JOF <jofrancis@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Your SUV only uses a fraction more fuel than your neighbour's
>Prius. Your old windows only leak a fraction more heat than Low-E
>glass. Your old furnace only burns a fraction more gas than your
>neighbour's high efficiency furnace. Have you converted your home to
>that solar heating system you say is so readily available? Why on
>earth would you ever inconvenience yourself to help save the world?
>I'll bet you don't believe anything in Al Gore's movie, or anything
>his opponents say either. I agree that Gore may be dramatizing things
>a tad, but somewhere in the middle ground we have a problem.

Empty gestures are a waste of time and probably endangered a few
people in those cities for the sake of a little energy. Yes, people
should do something, like turn off the lights in office towers when
they are unoccupied. How about some decent automation in those
buildings to do that? Why isn't this a daily occurrence?

How about turning off the great whale of Sidney's performing arts
center at night instead of keeping it lighted for the tourists?

As for SUV's, I don't own one. I have a 2005 Taurus, company issue
with 35000 miles on it and that's an average of 972 miles per month.
My neighbor has one too. His wife has a Prelude. My wife has a 11 year
old Maxima with 135000 miles on it. I don't drive but 5 miles on
weekends because I travel so much for work I stay home all weekend
long. Last year the car was parked at the airport for the first 6
months of the year coming home (20 miles, round trip) with me every
other weekend when I flew home. I have driven Prius' on business
trips.

I live in So. California, my windows are open most of the time.
I have not run my furnace since NOV or early DEC when it got cold.
I have not run my A/C all year.
Even so, the furnace, A/C is high efficiency, less than 1 year old.

I have solar hot water heater and high efficiency gas hot water. In
the last 10 years I spent an average of $21.73 per month on natural
gas. As I sit here I have one light on my front porch on and one in
this room with the computer. My carbon footprint is already pretty low
as you can see. My coworker has a photovoltaic system on his home and
it generates 10kw per day. His meter runs backwards on sunny summer
days.

All in all I'd say my life style is greener than yours since you only
gave 1 hour and a few lights up while I have been living this way for
22 years.

Al Gore's movie was a pack of lies and deceitful images designed to
exaggerate and illustrate a prejudiced conclusion that Global Warming
or Climate Change is largely influenced by man. This is far from the
truth considering the forces of nature involved in planetary climates
and the activity of the sun and its influence on the earth. There is
no credible scientific basis for asserting the present climate change
is caused by man's consumption of fossil fuels. All of it is based on
flawed "models" that often don't account for factors like orbital
mechanics of the earth-moon system and variability of the sun or of
volcanic eruptions. The climate is warming but it is simply a
consequence of the ending of the last ice age. Glaciers have been
receding for the last 10,000 years, the natives of North America are
descendants of people who crossed over the poles. You think they did
it over 1000's of miles of snow? Which is more plausible, 1000's of
miles of snow without food or game in sight or boats across temperate
seas?

I've been to Europe, England, Canada, China, Taiwan, Hong Kong,
Shanghai, Beijing, Guilin, Gaoshung. I can tell you those cities and
countries all look pretty much the same and probably very much like
Sidney at night. Although the Chinese shut down their towers at 9pm
every night in Shanghai but mostly due to scarcity of power not for
conservation or climate change. If they could they would probably run
them all night.

As for those lousy Americans and their great big lighted cities and
SUV's and gas guzzling cars, well, that's what keeps Land Rover in
business and Toyota making Tundra, Sequoia, 4Runners, Land Cruisers,
Hilander, Sienna and I don't know how many other models of SUV. Here's
a statistic you'll love - Toyota makes 7 models of sedans, 9
SUV/trucks and only 3 hybrids. Wow, there's a green company.

The green-ness of hybrids is suspect since the total cost of ownership
over the lifetime of the vehicle under normal maintenance and disposal
has yet to be determined. I am sure they will find something toxic in
them. Look at the waste being generated in Mercury disposal for
compact fluorescents. Look at the cost in making the ceramic bases for
them, the ovens it takes to make the ceramics, the cost of making
fiberglass circuit boards for the electronics in CFL's. False
economies are a bitch.

Are you ready for the downsizing of the steel industry, the rubber
industry, the glass industry and the chemical industries that support
all these bad habits? Are you ready to reduce your exports to the U.S.
and the downsizing of your industrial base and unemployment that comes
from getting consumers and these huge markets to conserve more and
consume less?

Get ready, it's coming anyway, because when the U.S. economy goes into
full recession the rest of the world won't be far behind.