Key West Trip and Dive Report

Got to Key West Saturday afternoon and we stayed at the Hyatt Resort on the
north end of the island. This is not a motel, but a timeshare, which was
listed on Expedia. I suppose that it was not timeshared out, so they rented
it out for our time. Even though there was no maid service, it was a great
place to stay. There were two bedrooms, kitchen, dining room, living room,
and a screen in deck. Very quiet and very nice, my wife was happy, I would
recommend it.

What can I say about Duval Street that has not already been said? Whenever
we had no plans, we ended up there, which was everynight. Always something
interesting to do and see there. Once again, the Sunset Celebrations were
entertaining. We ate at Cheeseburger Paradise, Hard Rock Cafe,
Margaritaville, and other places around the island. I would rate the food
from good to very good.

As for snorkling, Fort Zachary Taylor Park has a nice beach, where you can
rent chairs and umbrellas. There are artificial reefs about 20 to 30 feet
off shore with abundant fish life and good visibility.

Now, for the Dive Report. I dove two days and used Dive Key West and was
very impressed with them. They are a friendly and customer oriented
business. They practically did everything for you and all I had to do was
just doublecheck all my equipment and the set-up. I took two morning dive
trips and there were seven of us one morning and five the next, so there was
no rushed cattle boat experience. I think it would be difficult for some to
get out of bed early after a night on the town, but if you can, mornings
were a good time to go, then I spend the rest of the day with my non-diving
wife. The first day, we dove an outer reef about 30 feet and a shallow
inner reef. Visibility was about 20 to 25 feet at best. Maybe it was just
the time I was there, but I would rate Nassau as the best visibility I have
ever seen, followed by Cayman. So, from my experience, that puts Key West
third on the list, at least for me. At least for now.

The next day was a 65 foot dive to Joe's Tug. Interesting dive. I saw a
video on the internet from a couple of years ago with an intact one piece
Joe's Tug. What I saw and videod was a smashed wreck in two main pieces
with a debris field in the middle. I read this happened after Hurricane
Francis and I marveled at nature's destructive fury, especially at this
depth. There was an abundance of feeding fish on all the pieces, but I did
not see the eel. The video housing started leaking, a slow drip at 15 feet
turned into a steady drip at 65. However, I wanted the footage, figured
there was ample room in the housing, took a chance, and everything worked
out upon my return to the surface after 30 minutes. Our last dive was
another shallow reef dive and I videod that, too. The housing kept dripping
at a rate of 1 drip every thirty seconds, so after an hour, there would be
120 drips on the housing floor. Figured I'd still be okay. (By the way,
repaired the housing yesterday at home.) Always nice to be around the coral
reef life. Something you don't see everyday. As before, I will post the
video on Google Video for those that are interested, after the editing.

To sum up, overall, very good vacation ***. The Hyatt ***1/2. Food ***.
As for diving, still better than the quarry I dove here in Ohio, so I have
had better, I have had worse. Overall, I would rate it as good diving in
Key West ***.

"Marshall Karp" <marshallkarp@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:BZ8qg.1182$543.914@trnddc04...
> Now, for the Dive Report.

Good report, thank you.

To bad about the visibility. Besides the usual storm to churn things up,
wind direction, and in/outgoing tides have a roll. Sounds like you had
Great Lakes visibility. That's why we really got spoiled by Cayman; regular
100ft visibility on the walls.

You are a brave man to be diving with a leak on a camera housing. It's one
thing to know how much is coming in, and another to keep it at the bottom of
the housing, particularly getting out of the water.

We head to Marathon in two weeks; hoping for good conditions.

George


"Marshall Karp" <marshallkarp@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:BZ8qg.1182$543.914@trnddc04...
> Got to Key West Saturday afternoon and we stayed at the Hyatt Resort on
> the north end of the island. This is not a motel, but a timeshare, which
> was listed on Expedia. I suppose that it was not timeshared out, so they
> rented it out for our time. Even though there was no maid service, it was
> a great place to stay. There were two bedrooms, kitchen, dining room,
> living room, and a screen in deck. Very quiet and very nice, my wife was
> happy, I would recommend it.
>
> What can I say about Duval Street that has not already been said?
> Whenever we had no plans, we ended up there, which was everynight. Always
> something interesting to do and see there. Once again, the Sunset
> Celebrations were entertaining. We ate at Cheeseburger Paradise, Hard
> Rock Cafe, Margaritaville, and other places around the island. I would
> rate the food from good to very good.
>
> As for snorkling, Fort Zachary Taylor Park has a nice beach, where you can
> rent chairs and umbrellas. There are artificial reefs about 20 to 30 feet
> off shore with abundant fish life and good visibility.
>
> Now, for the Dive Report. I dove two days and used Dive Key West and was
> very impressed with them. They are a friendly and customer oriented
> business. They practically did everything for you and all I had to do was
> just doublecheck all my equipment and the set-up. I took two morning dive
> trips and there were seven of us one morning and five the next, so there
> was no rushed cattle boat experience. I think it would be difficult for
> some to get out of bed early after a night on the town, but if you can,
> mornings were a good time to go, then I spend the rest of the day with my
> non-diving wife. The first day, we dove an outer reef about 30 feet and a
> shallow inner reef. Visibility was about 20 to 25 feet at best. Maybe it
> was just the time I was there, but I would rate Nassau as the best
> visibility I have ever seen, followed by Cayman. So, from my experience,
> that puts Key West third on the list, at least for me. At least for now.
>
> The next day was a 65 foot dive to Joe's Tug. Interesting dive. I saw a
> video on the internet from a couple of years ago with an intact one piece
> Joe's Tug. What I saw and videod was a smashed wreck in two main pieces
> with a debris field in the middle. I read this happened after Hurricane
> Francis and I marveled at nature's destructive fury, especially at this
> depth. There was an abundance of feeding fish on all the pieces, but I
> did not see the eel. The video housing started leaking, a slow drip at 15
> feet turned into a steady drip at 65. However, I wanted the footage,
> figured there was ample room in the housing, took a chance, and everything
> worked out upon my return to the surface after 30 minutes. Our last dive
> was another shallow reef dive and I videod that, too. The housing kept
> dripping at a rate of 1 drip every thirty seconds, so after an hour, there
> would be 120 drips on the housing floor. Figured I'd still be okay. (By
> the way, repaired the housing yesterday at home.) Always nice to be
> around the coral reef life. Something you don't see everyday. As before,
> I will post the video on Google Video for those that are interested, after
> the editing.
>
> To sum up, overall, very good vacation ***. The Hyatt ***1/2. Food ***.
> As for diving, still better than the quarry I dove here in Ohio, so I have
> had better, I have had worse. Overall, I would rate it as good diving in
> Key West ***.
>

Hi George,

Not such a brave man. I wanted the video footage and just factored in all
things together, I figured I could get the dive in before I got close to a
problem with flooding.

The leak problem came about because I had some work done on my homemade
housing prior to the trip by the housing fabricator. Unbeknowst to me, in
refastening the hardware, one of the screws went in too far and minutely
punctured the housing. The pressure (isn't Boyle's Law great?) was forcing
water down and around the screw threads and dripping into the housing.
Anyway, my housing has a shelf that the camera rests on, and I have 4 pounds
of soft weight packs to weigh the set-up down, due to the boyancy. The
front weight pack was soaking up the drips so they weren't sloshing around.
Again, I took calculated risks to finish the dive and get the footage, which
I will post when I edit it. Again, what started out as slow drips at 15 to
20 feet turned into steady drips at 65 feet.

When I first saw drips on the first reef dive, with depths of 25 to 30 feet,
I felt sick to my stomach and could not enjoy the surroundings as I kept
checking the housing. I did not use it on the next even shallower reef dive
and used my sony digital camera and housing. However, the reason I like
video is that I turn my videocamera on, get everything, and edit good shots
later. I am not a professional photographer and I marvel at the people who
have that gift and take those great shots. How they can do that certainly
eludes me and my still shots never turn out very visually interesting.

I was told by the fabricator that if I had a problem on the road to use
model glue on my acrylic housing, so I went to the Ben Franklin Craft Store
in Key West, got model glue, and hoped to repair the housing that night for
use next day. However, upon my return to the Hyatt, after being on Duval
Street late, I discovered that the leaking screw was a star hex kind and I
did not have a screw driver to get it out. I put a drop of glue on the
leakpoint inside the housing, let it dry all night, and hoped for the best
the next morning.

The next day, was the Joe's Tug Dive to 65 feet and after 15 feet, I could
see where the water pressure forced water through what was probably a thin
glue membrane and the leak started again. As I wrote above, I figured I
could get the 30 minute dive time in, so I kept going and I knew I could get
the second shallow reef dive in. The thing that really concerned me, and I
kept checking for, was a spider web cracking radiating out from the weak
point. Fortunately, this did not happen.

Back home Sunday, I unscrewed the screw, used acrylic glue in the hole, put
a couple of washers under the screwhead to back it out a little, and screwed
it back in. I am pretty sure this will work, but will put it in the laundry
tub for testing before my next dive trip.

So now you know the leak experience in case anyone else can learn from this.

Hope your Marathon trip goes well and the weather and visibility is good.
Best wishes.

Marshall

"George Price" <gprice3@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:VMFqg.33725$LT2.18758@tornado.tampabay.rr.com ...
> To bad about the visibility. Besides the usual storm to churn things up,
> wind direction, and in/outgoing tides have a roll. Sounds like you had
> Great Lakes visibility. That's why we really got spoiled by Cayman;
> regular 100ft visibility on the walls.
>
> You are a brave man to be diving with a leak on a camera housing. It's
> one thing to know how much is coming in, and another to keep it at the
> bottom of the housing, particularly getting out of the water.
>
> We head to Marathon in two weeks; hoping for good conditions.
>
> George
>
>
> "Marshall Karp" <marshallkarp@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:BZ8qg.1182$543.914@trnddc04...
>> Got to Key West Saturday afternoon and we stayed at the Hyatt Resort on
>> the north end of the island. This is not a motel, but a timeshare, which
>> was listed on Expedia. I suppose that it was not timeshared out, so they
>> rented it out for our time. Even though there was no maid service, it
>> was a great place to stay. There were two bedrooms, kitchen, dining
>> room, living room, and a screen in deck. Very quiet and very nice, my
>> wife was happy, I would recommend it.
>>
>> What can I say about Duval Street that has not already been said?
>> Whenever we had no plans, we ended up there, which was everynight.
>> Always something interesting to do and see there. Once again, the Sunset
>> Celebrations were entertaining. We ate at Cheeseburger Paradise, Hard
>> Rock Cafe, Margaritaville, and other places around the island. I would
>> rate the food from good to very good.
>>
>> As for snorkling, Fort Zachary Taylor Park has a nice beach, where you
>> can rent chairs and umbrellas. There are artificial reefs about 20 to 30
>> feet off shore with abundant fish life and good visibility.
>>
>> Now, for the Dive Report. I dove two days and used Dive Key West and was
>> very impressed with them. They are a friendly and customer oriented
>> business. They practically did everything for you and all I had to do
>> was just doublecheck all my equipment and the set-up. I took two morning
>> dive trips and there were seven of us one morning and five the next, so
>> there was no rushed cattle boat experience. I think it would be
>> difficult for some to get out of bed early after a night on the town, but
>> if you can, mornings were a good time to go, then I spend the rest of the
>> day with my non-diving wife. The first day, we dove an outer reef about
>> 30 feet and a shallow inner reef. Visibility was about 20 to 25 feet at
>> best. Maybe it was just the time I was there, but I would rate Nassau as
>> the best visibility I have ever seen, followed by Cayman. So, from my
>> experience, that puts Key West third on the list, at least for me. At
>> least for now.
>>
>> The next day was a 65 foot dive to Joe's Tug. Interesting dive. I saw a
>> video on the internet from a couple of years ago with an intact one piece
>> Joe's Tug. What I saw and videod was a smashed wreck in two main pieces
>> with a debris field in the middle. I read this happened after Hurricane
>> Francis and I marveled at nature's destructive fury, especially at this
>> depth. There was an abundance of feeding fish on all the pieces, but I
>> did not see the eel. The video housing started leaking, a slow drip at
>> 15 feet turned into a steady drip at 65. However, I wanted the footage,
>> figured there was ample room in the housing, took a chance, and
>> everything worked out upon my return to the surface after 30 minutes.
>> Our last dive was another shallow reef dive and I videod that, too. The
>> housing kept dripping at a rate of 1 drip every thirty seconds, so after
>> an hour, there would be 120 drips on the housing floor. Figured I'd
>> still be okay. (By the way, repaired the housing yesterday at home.)
>> Always nice to be around the coral reef life. Something you don't see
>> everyday. As before, I will post the video on Google Video for those
>> that are interested, after the editing.
>>
>> To sum up, overall, very good vacation ***. The Hyatt ***1/2. Food ***.
>> As for diving, still better than the quarry I dove here in Ohio, so I
>> have had better, I have had worse. Overall, I would rate it as good
>> diving in Key West ***.
>>
>
>

"George Price" <gprice3@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:Yf_qg.45936$Ui7.41585@tornado.tampabay.rr.com ...
>
> "Marshall Karp" <marshallkarp@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:GQUqg.1879$nG2.409@trnddc05...
>> Hi George,
>>
>> Not such a brave man. I wanted the video footage and just factored in
>> all things together, I figured I could get the dive in before I got close
>> to a problem with flooding.
>>
>> The leak problem came about because I had some work done on my homemade
>> housing prior to the trip by the housing fabricator. Unbeknowst to me,
>> in refastening the hardware, one of the screws went in too far and
>> minutely punctured the housing. The pressure (isn't Boyle's Law great?)
>> was forcing water down and around the screw threads and dripping into the
>> housing. Anyway, my housing has a shelf that the camera rests on, and I
>> have 4 pounds of soft weight packs to weigh the set-up down, due to the
>> boyancy. The front weight pack was soaking up the drips so they weren't
>> sloshing around. Again, I took calculated risks to finish the dive and
>> get the footage, which I will post when I edit it. Again, what started
>> out as slow drips at 15 to 20 feet turned into steady drips at 65 feet.
>>
>> When I first saw drips on the first reef dive, with depths of 25 to 30
>> feet, I felt sick to my stomach and could not enjoy the surroundings as I
>> kept checking the housing. I did not use it on the next even shallower
>> reef dive and used my sony digital camera and housing. However, the
>> reason I like video is that I turn my videocamera on, get everything, and
>> edit good shots later. I am not a professional photographer and I marvel
>> at the people who have that gift and take those great shots. How they
>> can do that certainly eludes me and my still shots never turn out very
>> visually interesting.
>>
>> I was told by the fabricator that if I had a problem on the road to use
>> model glue on my acrylic housing, so I went to the Ben Franklin Craft
>> Store in Key West, got model glue, and hoped to repair the housing that
>> night for use next day. However, upon my return to the Hyatt, after
>> being on Duval Street late, I discovered that the leaking screw was a
>> star hex kind and I did not have a screw driver to get it out. I put a
>> drop of glue on the leakpoint inside the housing, let it dry all night,
>> and hoped for the best the next morning.
>>
>> The next day, was the Joe's Tug Dive to 65 feet and after 15 feet, I
>> could see where the water pressure forced water through what was probably
>> a thin glue membrane and the leak started again. As I wrote above, I
>> figured I could get the 30 minute dive time in, so I kept going and I
>> knew I could get the second shallow reef dive in. The thing that really
>> concerned me, and I kept checking for, was a spider web cracking
>> radiating out from the weak point. Fortunately, this did not happen.
>>
>> Back home Sunday, I unscrewed the screw, used acrylic glue in the hole,
>> put a couple of washers under the screwhead to back it out a little, and
>> screwed it back in. I am pretty sure this will work, but will put it in
>> the laundry tub for testing before my next dive trip.
>>
>> So now you know the leak experience in case anyone else can learn from
>> this.
>>
>> Hope your Marathon trip goes well and the weather and visibility is good.
>> Best wishes.
>>
>> Marshall
>
> Thanks,
>
> At this point, we're just hoping for 1-2 ft seas. My wife and our twins
> get sea sick, so I'm SOL ( and out $300 per day) if it's rough. Getting
> off a boat in 3-4 ft seas is easy, but getting back on.......for us , it
> just isn't worth it. Turns out three major dive operations in Marathon
> have a "no cancellation policy". I guess they are tired of people not
> showing up. No refund, unless they cancel the trip. We would normally
> dive with Doug Morgan out of Banana Bay, but we had to bug out a day early
> under duress due to a family situation last year, and the memories don't
> need to be revisited this year; nothing to do with Doug Morgan and Banana
> Bay. Since we have to plan things months in advance, we're rolling the
> dice with Tilden's at Hawks Cay. Hawks Cay even has a two week
> cancellation policy.
>
> I'm still trying to get my all-elusive spotted eagle ray shot. Never
> close enough to get good color from the strobe at five feet or less. We
> had two huge eagle rays in Marathon last year, but visibility was crappy,
> it's useless to try and catch them. They show up in the pictures real
> nice, but they were just at the edge of my strobe range.....one of these
> days.
>
> George
>

Let me restate the cancellation policy on the diving. Like Hawks Cay, you
have to cancel two weeks in advance to get a refund. Anything less than 14
days; you lose half of the cost and get the rest as a store credit. You can
read the rest at:

http://www.tildensscubacenter.com/cancellation-policy/




>>
>> "George Price" <gprice3@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:VMFqg.33725$LT2.18758@tornado.tampabay.rr.com ...
>>> To bad about the visibility. Besides the usual storm to churn things
>>> up, wind direction, and in/outgoing tides have a roll. Sounds like you
>>> had Great Lakes visibility. That's why we really got spoiled by Cayman;
>>> regular 100ft visibility on the walls.
>>>
>>> You are a brave man to be diving with a leak on a camera housing. It's
>>> one thing to know how much is coming in, and another to keep it at the
>>> bottom of the housing, particularly getting out of the water.
>>>
>>> We head to Marathon in two weeks; hoping for good conditions.
>>>
>>> George
>>>
>>>
>>> "Marshall Karp" <marshallkarp@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:BZ8qg.1182$543.914@trnddc04...
>>>> Got to Key West Saturday afternoon and we stayed at the Hyatt Resort on
>>>> the north end of the island. This is not a motel, but a timeshare,
>>>> which was listed on Expedia. I suppose that it was not timeshared out,
>>>> so they rented it out for our time. Even though there was no maid
>>>> service, it was a great place to stay. There were two bedrooms,
>>>> kitchen, dining room, living room, and a screen in deck. Very quiet
>>>> and very nice, my wife was happy, I would recommend it.
>>>>
>>>> What can I say about Duval Street that has not already been said?
>>>> Whenever we had no plans, we ended up there, which was everynight.
>>>> Always something interesting to do and see there. Once again, the
>>>> Sunset Celebrations were entertaining. We ate at Cheeseburger
>>>> Paradise, Hard Rock Cafe, Margaritaville, and other places around the
>>>> island. I would rate the food from good to very good.
>>>>
>>>> As for snorkling, Fort Zachary Taylor Park has a nice beach, where you
>>>> can rent chairs and umbrellas. There are artificial reefs about 20 to
>>>> 30 feet off shore with abundant fish life and good visibility.
>>>>
>>>> Now, for the Dive Report. I dove two days and used Dive Key West and
>>>> was very impressed with them. They are a friendly and customer
>>>> oriented business. They practically did everything for you and all I
>>>> had to do was just doublecheck all my equipment and the set-up. I took
>>>> two morning dive trips and there were seven of us one morning and five
>>>> the next, so there was no rushed cattle boat experience. I think it
>>>> would be difficult for some to get out of bed early after a night on
>>>> the town, but if you can, mornings were a good time to go, then I spend
>>>> the rest of the day with my non-diving wife. The first day, we dove an
>>>> outer reef about 30 feet and a shallow inner reef. Visibility was
>>>> about 20 to 25 feet at best. Maybe it was just the time I was there,
>>>> but I would rate Nassau as the best visibility I have ever seen,
>>>> followed by Cayman. So, from my experience, that puts Key West third on
>>>> the list, at least for me. At least for now.
>>>>
>>>> The next day was a 65 foot dive to Joe's Tug. Interesting dive. I saw
>>>> a video on the internet from a couple of years ago with an intact one
>>>> piece Joe's Tug. What I saw and videod was a smashed wreck in two main
>>>> pieces with a debris field in the middle. I read this happened after
>>>> Hurricane Francis and I marveled at nature's destructive fury,
>>>> especially at this depth. There was an abundance of feeding fish on
>>>> all the pieces, but I did not see the eel. The video housing started
>>>> leaking, a slow drip at 15 feet turned into a steady drip at 65.
>>>> However, I wanted the footage, figured there was ample room in the
>>>> housing, took a chance, and everything worked out upon my return to the
>>>> surface after 30 minutes. Our last dive was another shallow reef dive
>>>> and I videod that, too. The housing kept dripping at a rate of 1 drip
>>>> every thirty seconds, so after an hour, there would be 120 drips on the
>>>> housing floor. Figured I'd still be okay. (By the way, repaired the
>>>> housing yesterday at home.) Always nice to be around the coral reef
>>>> life. Something you don't see everyday. As before, I will post the
>>>> video on Google Video for those that are interested, after the editing.
>>>>
>>>> To sum up, overall, very good vacation ***. The Hyatt ***1/2. Food
>>>> ***. As for diving, still better than the quarry I dove here in Ohio,
>>>> so I have had better, I have had worse. Overall, I would rate it as
>>>> good diving in Key West ***.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

> At this point, we're just hoping for 1-2 ft seas. My wife and our twins
> get sea sick, so I'm SOL ( and out $300 per day) if it's rough.

Who are you paying $300 a day and what are you getting in return?

>> Turns out three major dive operations in Marathon have a "no
>> cancellation policy".
>> I guess they are tired of people not showing up. No refund, unless they
>> cancel the trip.

For three or more people, chances are good that you can rent a boat and
dive, snorkel and cruise all day long for less than the cost of a single two
tank dive trip with a commercial dive operator. If you have a GPS, which
you can buy for less than $200, finding the same dive sites the operators
visit most often isn't a real challange. They're listed on charts you can
buy in any local marina or marine store for a few dollars more.

>> I'm still trying to get my all-elusive spotted eagle ray shot. Never
>> close enough to get good color from the strobe at five feet or less. We
>> had two huge eagle rays in Marathon last year, but visibility was crappy,
>> it's useless to try and catch them. They show up in the pictures real
>> nice, but they were just at the edge of my strobe range.....one of these
>> days.

There are only a few ways I know of to get the shot you want:
1. Ambush them. When you see them coming, try to figure out where they are
heading and get there first. It's not a sure strategy, but it's more likely
to succeed than chasing them. If you're in a rental boat, or one of your
own, you can sometimes use the boat to get ahead of them in shallow enough
water to get your shot without a strobe; but, normally, only if you're
willing to spend a good part of the day trying.
2. Get shallow enough that you don't need your strobe. Eagle Rays are not
all that colorful. They're pretty much shades of black and white. A
shallow water shot can be as good as a deeper shot taken with a strobe,
maybe even better.
3. Get lucky.

Lee

"Lee Bell" <pleebell2@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:Z56rg.3621$IF2.163@bignews7.bellsouth.net...
>> At this point, we're just hoping for 1-2 ft seas. My wife and our twins
>> get sea sick, so I'm SOL ( and out $300 per day) if it's rough.
>
> Who are you paying $300 a day and what are you getting in return?

Every operator I have found in the keys anymore is $75 for tanks and
weights; so there's your $300 for four people. The kids will need rental
BC's and regs, so it will actually cost a bit more. We thought of buying
their own gear, but for the time they actually use it, as well as growing
like weeds, we are holding off for now; my son just cleared 6ft, and he's
fourteen. I'm not sure why they always include weights, since most
certified divers own their own that is appropriate for their person
requirements. I always haul my wife's, and my coated lead, but we usually
use what they have on the boat instead of hauling it around. The kids have
soft lead shot belts. We have two AL 80's, but for the difference between
refilling and renting ($3 apiece), it's not worth it to haul them around.

We really need to buy some new gear; I was at Divers Outlet (Watersports
World?) here in Orlando today to get my twins mask prescription lenses
upgraded, and get a new HP hose for my gauges I just replaced last year, and
I was informed not to dive on any tank rated over 3000 psi with my first
stage. Of course, my dive shop on the other side of town has never
mentioned that. The yolk is not rated for over 3000psi, as it was explained
(becuase they're real old). The man at Divers Outlet is real good (Gil);
I've taken these masks in three years in a row now, and he's taken the old
lenses out, cleaned the mask, and put the new ones in, tested the seal. He
made short work of my mini Dacor gauge, when I was trying to figure out how
to get the damn thing out of the housing. The main thing: I was only
charged for parts; nothing for the time he took to do all of this (about
half an hour for the two masks and HP hose)
>
>>> Turns out three major dive operations in Marathon have a "no
>>> cancellation policy".
>>> I guess they are tired of people not showing up. No refund, unless they
>>> cancel the trip.
>
> For three or more people, chances are good that you can rent a boat and
> dive, snorkel and cruise all day long for less than the cost of a single
> two tank dive trip with a commercial dive operator. If you have a GPS,
> which you can buy for less than $200, finding the same dive sites the
> operators visit most often isn't a real challenge. They're listed on
> charts you can buy in any local marina or marine store for a few dollars
> more.
>

One of these days! I'm still not comfortable about leaving an unattended
boat on the surface. Yes, if we were able to dive often enough, it would be
the way to go. Capt. Banny was showing me how to use his GPS about five
years ago. I still haven't bought one for land for lack of need, but they
are easy enough to use. I think the main factor right now is diving with
two inexperienced kids, and I wouldn't want to add an inexperienced boat
captain to the mix just yet. I have paid pretty close attention at how they
radio around going for the blue water once we clear the coast; watching
where the storms are, etc.

I just think the cancellation policies are not very fair, and for the time
in advance we need to insure a spot, it can be pretty hit or miss in the
Keys. We wanted to go to Grand Cayman, Cobalt Coast this year, but it was
going to be way to expensive. We plan on going next year when it will be
more affordable for us. It will still cost as much, but we will be better
able to afford it. Before the kids started diving, my wife an I dove GC and
CB (more CB) for about ten years, and never and a problem early in "the
season" in late June with reliable conditions


>>> I'm still trying to get my all-elusive spotted eagle ray shot. Never
>>> close enough to get good color from the strobe at five feet or less. We
>>> had two huge eagle rays in Marathon last year, but visibility was
>>> crappy, it's useless to try and catch them. They show up in the
>>> pictures real nice, but they were just at the edge of my strobe
>>> range.....one of these days.
>
> There are only a few ways I know of to get the shot you want:
> 1. Ambush them. When you see them coming, try to figure out where they
> are heading and get there first. It's not a sure strategy, but it's more
> likely to succeed than chasing them. If you're in a rental boat, or one
> of your own, you can sometimes use the boat to get ahead of them in
> shallow enough water to get your shot without a strobe; but, normally,
> only if you're willing to spend a good part of the day trying.
> 2. Get shallow enough that you don't need your strobe. Eagle Rays are not
> all that colorful. They're pretty much shades of black and white. A
> shallow water shot can be as good as a deeper shot taken with a strobe,
> maybe even better.
> 3. Get lucky.
>

1. I wish. I can never get in front of them, and I only see them after
they are passing by. I came real close in CB some years ago when I came
over a coral finger to find one grazing...pretty much just a bad angle.
2. The ones we saw in Marathon last year, the visibility was only about
15-20 in 15ft of water. two of the biggest I've ever seen..had to be at
least a five foot wingspan (of course , to me it looked seven underwater) go
cruising by to our right. I just caught them at the edge of visibility,
turned and tried to catch up. The kids and wife wondered what the hell I
was doing because they didn't see them due to bad visibility. They caught
up enough to catch a glimpse, and the rays were gone.
3. I'm still waiting on that one

George

"George Price" <gprice3@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:kFkrg.54813$7G2.47045@tornado.tampabay.rr.com ...

> I was informed not to dive on any tank rated over 3000 psi with my first
> stage. Of course, my dive shop on the other side of town has never
> mentioned that. The yolk is not rated for over 3000psi, as it was
> explained (becuase they're real old).

What unmitigated bullshit.

George Price wrote

> Every operator I have found in the keys anymore is $75 for tanks and
> weights; so there's your $300 for four people.

Since I bring my own tanks and don't use weights, you caught me by surprise.
I know things have been getting more expensive, but I was unaware they had
gotten that expensive. Perhaps it is possible to justify buying tanks
economically.

> The kids will need rental BC's and regs, so it will actually cost a bit
> more. We thought of buying their own gear, but for the time
> they actually use it, as well as growing like weeds, we are holding off
> for now; my son just cleared 6ft, and he's fourteen. I'm not
> sure why they always include weights, since most certified divers own
> their own that is appropriate for their person requirements.

You need to look at the plate, wing and harness configurations we've been
talking about for a while. One of several advantages is that they are
pretty much one size fits all. Users who are still growing simply let out
the straps a bit. As for including lead, they do that because many divers
fly to dive locations and don't bring their own weights with them. I'm used
to having boats provide weights as part of the charter. I don't think I've
ever been charged separately for them.

> The kids have soft lead shot belts.

Something everyone who uses a weight belt should have. As I suspect you
know, the pouch type belts hold hard weights just as well and almost as
comfortably as they hold soft ones.

> We have two AL 80's, but for the difference between refilling and renting
> ($3 apiece), it's not worth it to haul them around.

Almost always true for those that are happy diving with standard 80s. I'm
not one of those people. I either dive compact 80s (which are about 4 lbs
less buoyant than the standard 80s or HP 100s, which are even less buoyant.

> I was informed not to dive on any tank rated over 3000 psi with my first
> stage. Of course, my dive shop on the other side of town has never
> mentioned that.

I'm surprised anyone has mentioned it. Diving to 3,300 psi with a yoke type
regulator has been pretty standard for some time. These days, diving to
3,500 is becoming standard. I doubt manufacturers would be selling 3,500,
actually 3,400 something, tanks with yoke capable valves if they weren't
safe.

> The man at Divers Outlet is real good (Gil); I've taken these masks in
> three years in a row now, and he's taken the old lenses out, cleaned the
> mask, and put the new ones in, tested the seal. He made short work of my
> mini Dacor gauge, when I was
> trying to figure out how to get the damn thing out of the housing. The
> main thing: I was only charged for parts; nothing for the
> time he took to do all of this (about half an hour for the two masks and
> HP hose).

I shop Diver's outlet, or whatever the name is now, here in Ft. Lauderdale.
They have some of the best prices around, but they are not people I go to
for advice on quality equipment or service, for that matter. I've always
found them to be nice and as helpful as possible, but I've not found them
particularly knowledgeable. I buy tanks there, but don't get them filled
there. They don't have nitrox or air filtered to nitrox standards. The
shop I do use will slap an O2 ready sticker on a tank I buy there, provided
I don't get it filled there, without charging for an O2 cleaning or
inspection.

> One of these days! I'm still not comfortable about leaving an unattended
> boat on the surface.

Understandable. It's not something to be taken lightly. Of course, you
always have the option of diving in pairs. While it's hard to get used to
leaving one pair on the surface while the other dives, when you have the
boat for the day, you can still dive more for the same money than you can on
a commercial boat.

> Yes, if we were able to dive often enough, it would be the way to go.
> Capt. Banny was showing me how to use his GPS about
> five years ago. I still haven't bought one for land for lack of need, but
> they are easy enough to use. I think the main factor right
> now is diving with two inexperienced kids, and I wouldn't want to add an
> inexperienced boat captain to the mix just yet. I have
> paid pretty close attention at how they radio around going for the blue
> water once we clear the coast; watching where the storms
> are, etc.

Clint Eastwood was a bit abrupt when he said "Every man should know his
limitations." Your risk tolerance is a bit different from mine. Then
again, you have kids and I don't. That does make a difference.

Damned near everything I own that moves has a GPS. I have two of them on
our 32 foot cruiser/fishing/diving boat, one on the 15 foot trailerable boat
and one for our inflatable dinghy and my kayak. I have I take with me in
the car, one on each of our bicycles and one on each of our ATVs. It's not
that I always need to know where I am, but rather, that I always need to
know how to get home from wherever I am. Both the Ocean and the Everglades
tend to look the same in all directions when you're out of sight of
significant landmarks.

Lee

"Lee Bell" <pleebell2@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:Jaqrg.20288$7K2.7630@bignews2.bellsouth.net.. .
> George Price wrote
>
>> Every operator I have found in the keys anymore is $75 for tanks and
>> weights; so there's your $300 for four people.
>
> Since I bring my own tanks and don't use weights, you caught me by
> surprise. I know things have been getting more expensive, but I was
> unaware they had gotten that expensive. Perhaps it is possible to justify
> buying tanks economically.
>
>> The kids will need rental BC's and regs, so it will actually cost a bit
>> more. We thought of buying their own gear, but for the time
>> they actually use it, as well as growing like weeds, we are holding off
>> for now; my son just cleared 6ft, and he's fourteen. I'm not
>> sure why they always include weights, since most certified divers own
>> their own that is appropriate for their person requirements.
>
> You need to look at the plate, wing and harness configurations we've been
> talking about for a while. One of several advantages is that they are
> pretty much one size fits all. Users who are still growing simply let out
> the straps a bit. As for including lead, they do that because many divers
> fly to dive locations and don't bring their own weights with them. I'm
> used to having boats provide weights as part of the charter. I don't
> think I've ever been charged separately for them.
>
>> The kids have soft lead shot belts.
>
> Something everyone who uses a weight belt should have. As I suspect you
> know, the pouch type belts hold hard weights just as well and almost as
> comfortably as they hold soft ones.
>
>> We have two AL 80's, but for the difference between refilling and renting
>> ($3 apiece), it's not worth it to haul them around.
>
> Almost always true for those that are happy diving with standard 80s. I'm
> not one of those people. I either dive compact 80s (which are about 4 lbs
> less buoyant than the standard 80s or HP 100s, which are even less
> buoyant.
>
>> I was informed not to dive on any tank rated over 3000 psi with my first
>> stage. Of course, my dive shop on the other side of town has never
>> mentioned that.
>
> I'm surprised anyone has mentioned it. Diving to 3,300 psi with a yoke
> type regulator has been pretty standard for some time. These days, diving
> to 3,500 is becoming standard. I doubt manufacturers would be selling
> 3,500, actually 3,400 something, tanks with yoke capable valves if they
> weren't safe.
>
As I mentioned to Popeye, my Cressi first stage is twenty years old and is
not as substantial as the newer
yolks...but I don't know when they started making them thicker, as well as
having at least 3200 psi on it
many, many times. No one has ever brought it up, but the guy nailed the
exact age of the 1st stage.

>> The man at Divers Outlet is real good (Gil); I've taken these masks in
>> three years in a row now, and he's taken the old lenses out, cleaned the
>> mask, and put the new ones in, tested the seal. He made short work of my
>> mini Dacor gauge, when I was
>> trying to figure out how to get the damn thing out of the housing. The
>> main thing: I was only charged for parts; nothing for the
>> time he took to do all of this (about half an hour for the two masks and
>> HP hose).
>
> I shop Diver's outlet, or whatever the name is now, here in Ft.
> Lauderdale. They have some of the best prices around, but they are not
> people I go to for advice on quality equipment or service, for that
> matter. I've always found them to be nice and as helpful as possible, but
> I've not found them particularly knowledgeable. I buy tanks there, but
> don't get them filled there. They don't have nitrox or air filtered to
> nitrox standards. The shop I do use will slap an O2 ready sticker on a
> tank I buy there, provided I don't get it filled there, without charging
> for an O2 cleaning or inspection.
>

I usually use what is now Paradise Divers (used to be Northwest Divers), but
they are on the complete
other side of town. Service work on regs is done there; no one else
services Cressi..they have to send it out.
Divers Outlet is close. I didn't even know they could service the HP hose,
but took it anyway. I don't find
it challenging at all to change them, but as I said, I wasn't real sure how
to pop this mini guage out of the boot
without really screwing it up.

Like I said; I think we really need to go by some new equipment,
particularly new regs. Any suggestions?

>> One of these days! I'm still not comfortable about leaving an unattended
>> boat on the surface.
>
> Understandable. It's not something to be taken lightly. Of course, you
> always have the option of diving in pairs. While it's hard to get used to
> leaving one pair on the surface while the other dives, when you have the
> boat for the day, you can still dive more for the same money than you can
> on a commercial boat.
>
>> Yes, if we were able to dive often enough, it would be the way to go.
>> Capt. Banny was showing me how to use his GPS about
>> five years ago. I still haven't bought one for land for lack of need,
>> but they are easy enough to use. I think the main factor right
>> now is diving with two inexperienced kids, and I wouldn't want to add an
>> inexperienced boat captain to the mix just yet. I have
>> paid pretty close attention at how they radio around going for the blue
>> water once we clear the coast; watching where the storms
>> are, etc.
>
> Clint Eastwood was a bit abrupt when he said "Every man should know his
> limitations." Your risk tolerance is a bit different from mine. Then
> again, you have kids and I don't. That does make a difference.
>
> Damned near everything I own that moves has a GPS. I have two of them on
> our 32 foot cruiser/fishing/diving boat, one on the 15 foot trailerable
> boat and one for our inflatable dinghy and my kayak. I have I take with
> me in the car, one on each of our bicycles and one on each of our ATVs.
> It's not that I always need to know where I am, but rather, that I always
> need to know how to get home from wherever I am. Both the Ocean and the
> Everglades tend to look the same in all directions when you're out of
> sight of significant landmarks.
>
They would seem to be almost indispensable on a boat. I thought it was
interesting how they show every
single little nook and cranny along the coast, particularly in the Keys
where there are thousands of them, or finding a wreck
miles off shore, and you land right on it.

> Lee
>