Question re: BCD, regulator, weights

I need some recommendations for equipment that I hope to buy in the
near future for warm water diving. Excuse my newbie terminology.

The BCD's with the pockets for weights "appear" to be easier to deal
with than weight belts which I find to be a pain. I get the impression
though, that you'd have to transport the weights to your diving
location or do many places have weighted bags you can use?

I am also interested in having the BCD include the octopus integrated
into the BCD (on one's left side) instead of the typical right-side
"dangling" octopus. Is there any downside to this type of octo and do
you need to buy a specific type of BCD to include the integrated
octopus or can you retrofit any BCD to become integrated with an
octopus?

Any advice will be appreciated.

Sy

--
Please post and reply to sytech@yahoo.com

<sytech@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:090720062046385307%sytech@yahoo.com...
>
>
> I need some recommendations for equipment that I hope to buy in the
> near future for warm water diving. Excuse my newbie terminology.
>
> The BCD's with the pockets for weights "appear" to be easier to deal
> with than weight belts which I find to be a pain. I get the impression
> though, that you'd have to transport the weights to your diving
> location or do many places have weighted bags you can use?
>
> I am also interested in having the BCD include the octopus integrated
> into the BCD (on one's left side) instead of the typical right-side
> "dangling" octopus. Is there any downside to this type of octo and do
> you need to buy a specific type of BCD to include the integrated
> octopus or can you retrofit any BCD to become integrated with an
> octopus?
>
> Any advice will be appreciated.

Do a google groups advanced search on "air2" in the groups rec.scuba.*

Dennis

<sytech@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:090720062046385307%sytech@yahoo.com...
>
>
> The BCD's with the pockets for weights "appear" to be easier to deal
> with than weight belts which I find to be a pain. I get the impression
> though, that you'd have to transport the weights to your diving
> location or do many places have weighted bags you can use?

I dislike weight belts. The integrated weight pockes will hold solid or
soft weights. Many boats have weights on board. If you're diving with a
shop that furnishes weights you may need to carry the weight to your
destination or it may be available at the dive site.


> I am also interested in having the BCD include the octopus integrated
> into the BCD (on one's left side) instead of the typical right-side
> "dangling" octopus. Is there any downside to this type of octo and do
> you need to buy a specific type of BCD to include the integrated
> octopus or can you retrofit any BCD to become integrated with an
> octopus?

There is a downside to everything but I wouldn't let a couple minor
negatives stop you from using an integrated octopus. Any type of BCD whose
inflator connector is the same the diameter as the octopus is the easiest to
connect to and requires very little effort. Worst case scenario is complete
replacement of the bladder connector to the octopus. You can retrofit.

"Popeye" wrote

> Most places, in my experience, do -not- have soft weight, they aren't very
> durable.

And they are more expensive.

> Secondly, if you're talking about a "Mares HUB", have yourself slapped
> until the notion passes.

I certainly agree with that.

> They do come with 2 different sizes of fittings, but adapters are
> available, and, in a worst case scenario, one would have to switch a low
> pressure hose.
>
> But if you own and travel with both BCD and regs, it's not an issue.

Actually, it is an issue, just not a big one. Some places that have a
supply of standard inflator hoses, do not have an adequate supply of
proprietary ones for inflator/alternate units. The solution is easy, carry
a spare.

Lee

Popeye wrote:
> <sytech@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:090720062046385307%sytech@yahoo.com...
> >
> >
> > I need some recommendations for equipment that I hope to buy in the
> > near future for warm water diving. Excuse my newbie terminology.
> >
> > The BCD's with the pockets for weights "appear" to be easier to deal
> > with than weight belts which I find to be a pain. I get the impression
> > though, that you'd have to transport the weights to your diving
> > location or do many places have weighted bags you can use?
>
> I found that hard weights fit in my BCD just as well, if you have one
> single weight.
>
> Most places, in my experience, do -not- have soft weight, they aren't very
> durable.
>
> > I am also interested in having the BCD include the octopus integrated
> > into the BCD (on one's left side) instead of the typical right-side
> > "dangling" octopus. Is there any downside to this type of octo and do
> > you need to buy a specific type of BCD to include the integrated
> > octopus or can you retrofit any BCD to become integrated with an
> > octopus?
>
> First off, any "dangling" octopus is a sign of poor skillset- it should be
> secured.
>
> Secondly, if you're talking about a "Mares HUB", have yourself slapped
> until the notion passes.
>
> As far as a downside, an "integrated octo", commonly called an "Air II"
> (although that -is- a particular brand), requires different training and
> tactics to employ.
>
> I.e., how easily can you breath it, and use it to control your depth, in a
> panicked diver/rescue situation?
>
> Because you'll be breathing it during air sharing, not the other guy.
>
> It's too short to pass away, and you -must not- give him control of your
> power inflator.

Yes, yes yes. What Pops said. And get a BP/wing; give up the BC idea.


>
> They do come with 2 different sizes of fittings, but adapters are
> available, and, in a worst case scenario, one would have to switch a low
> pressure hose.
>
> But if you own and travel with both BCD and regs, it's not an issue.
>
> It's something that brooks lively argument here, many of us having used
> and discarded them, you might try the archives.
>
> I, however, am looking to employ one myself, for convenience.

You are WHAT???? Do tell your reasoning here!

*

"Star" <lclee1@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1152543754.494848.127230@b28g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...

>> I, however, am looking to employ one myself, for convenience.
>
> You are WHAT???? Do tell your reasoning here!

I set out to assemble the most minimal rig possible.

With the retrospect of 400 dives in a tech BC and 600 dives in a BP/W, in
all conditions, I decided that on some (or -most-) dives, I don't need a
full secondary necklaced regulator.

The truest essence of DIR -or- Hogarthianism, is true minimalism.

Let's not take what we don't need... Right?

I've used a lift bag scores of times on a warm water drift dive- I kept
it.

I've used the octo, in this situation, once, in 1000 dives.

So we can minimalize that.

Since 99% of the divers in the water only have a 30-33" reg to donate, as
will I, and since we're going to call the dive on the spot, I just need a
reg, for myself, to get me up.

No problem.

The sport rig I have mostly done now has two hoses, no SPG.

Anything else is arguably unnecessary for a warm water, hi-viz dive.

Other dives (tech or training) would have other requirements.

Off the top of my head, the only other two times I had to donate a reg was
with (and to) studii.



--
Popeye
"Best thing for him, really, his therapy was
going nowhere." -Dr. Hannibal Lector.

www.finalprotectivefire.com

sytech@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> I need some recommendations for equipment that I hope to buy in the
> near future for warm water diving. Excuse my newbie terminology.
>
> The BCD's with the pockets for weights "appear" to be easier to deal
> with than weight belts which I find to be a pain. I get the impression
> though, that you'd have to transport the weights to your diving
> location or do many places have weighted bags you can use?

I find weight pockets - and the BCs that take them - bulky,
draggy, and complicated, but others love them. Suggest you try
both before you make an expensive commitment.
>
> I am also interested in having the BCD include the octopus integrated
> into the BCD (on one's left side) instead of the typical right-side
> "dangling" octopus. Is there any downside to this type of octo and do
> you need to buy a specific type of BCD to include the integrated
> octopus or can you retrofit any BCD to become integrated with an
> octopus?

An octo does not have to dangle, in fact it should not. It
should be clipped off in the front or at the right waist (as
should the console/spg).

As a practical matter, you'll never use the octo except to take
a rescue or dm course, and the integrated ones do make for a
cleaner rig. They can be retrofitted to any rig, as they are in
series with the low pressure inflator hose.

m

sytech@yahoo.com wrote:
> The BCD's with the pockets for weights "appear" to be easier to deal

They aren't. Some are good. BOB is SP KnightHawk. The *new* DiveRites
are also good. DiveRite used to have horrible I-weight. The New system
is as good as or better than the SP.

> with than weight belts which I find to be a pain. I get the impression

Weight belts don't cost much to dump. They don't have expensive parts
that need replacement. They don't make your gear heavy while you change
tanks.

> though, that you'd have to transport the weights to your diving

No. All good WI systems accomodate hard weights.

Avoid anything that has a ripcord like it's coughing blood and bleeding
from the eyes.

|> I am also interested in having the BCD include the octopus
integrated

BOB is Atomic SSI, with SP Air II (Now in 3rd/4th generation). The Tusa
Duo Air is a licensed clone of the the SP, but no the latest
generation, but very reliable.

> Is there any downside to this type of octo and do

Minor. The detractors will all cite some stuff about difficulty
managing buoyancy on ascent. They might lack experience with the
product or have far too much experience with OOA .

They could just abbreviate their position and say "I don't like them".

First, a correctly weighted warm water diver can dump all air at the
bottom before ascent begins and fin to the surface. This will maximize
control over all-important ascent speed.

Second, virtually all good BCs have shoulder dumps. You don't need to
use your inflator hose to dump air.

Last, but not least, this is technically a rescue situation. If any
buoyancy needs managing, you manage your victims inflator, and your BC
is empty. Two people managing buoyancy on ascent (one or both of which
is panicked) is a recipe for trouble. Dump yours, manage theirs. Keep
their inflator button out of their hands. It looks just like an "Up"
button to them and they're out of air.

Another minor issue is that they generally use a non-std QDC. Because
they breathe, they want larger diameter air passages, thus the larger
QDC. It's not that big a deal really. It turns out that even the small
bores are not standard, and pretty much everybody has adapters.

> you need to buy a specific type of BCD to include the integrated

Generally no. The SSI will fit anything. The SP AirII and Tusa will fit
almost anything.

The original SP AirII (20+ years ago) was finicky, hard to breathe,
hard to tune, and had a reputation (deserved but caused by bad tuning))
for free-flowing. All of that left a bad impression for some. Japanese
cars used to be the same way. Progress, you know?

Modern designs like the SSI are as easy to breathe as a primary, and
are more rugged and reliable than classic 2nd stage designs. They
simplify your rig and eliminate an LP Hose along with a dangler. Less
maintenance, less fuss *and* your inflator gets serviced when your
regulator does.

Some people like it, some people don't. If you like it, there's no
reason not to get one. It's not for technical/overhead use and its
probably not a great idea for those that dive in frigid water. The
technical issue is irrelevant to a recreational diver. Should you ever
acquire technical training, you will get a dedicated special purpose
rig for it. Buying all your stuff today as though you'll be one
tomorrow, bestows you with the most dreaded of monickers:

"Techie-wannabe".

bullshark

bullshark wrote

> Last, but not least, this is technically a rescue situation. If any
> buoyancy needs managing, you manage your victims inflator, and your BC
> is empty. Two people managing buoyancy on ascent (one or both of which
> is panicked) is a recipe for trouble. Dump yours, manage theirs. Keep
> their inflator button out of their hands. It looks just like an "Up"
> button to them and they're out of air.

As you note, they're out of air. It's a bit difficult to add gas to their
BCD if necessary. In such a situation, manual inflation or their BCD would
not be my first choice.

In truth, you had it right before this point. Those that think it makes it
hard to manage inflation probably do not have enough experience with the
product to do it easily. When I had one, I did not find it to be a problem.

The only problem I found with the combination units came with my change to a
plate, wing and harness configuration. A slightly longer than standard
inflator hose, the one that's part of the BCD, is not easily controlled when
wearing a harness like mine. Someone who can overcome this problem might
well find they like the unit as much as other options. That was not the
case for me. I prefer the necklaced, shorter hose alternate option. YMMV.

> Some people like it, some people don't. If you like it, there's no
> reason not to get one.

Yep.

> It's not for technical/overhead use . . .

Why not? If it can be secured adequately, it's just as easy to locate and
use as the one I currently wear under my chin. Either way, I'm going to use
the alternate and hand off the primary. I'm not sure I see a safety
difference.

Lee

Thus spake "Popeye" <Popeye@Finalprotectivefire.com> :

>
>
>"Star" <lclee1@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1152543754.494848.127230@b28g2000cwb.googleg roups.com...
>
>>> I, however, am looking to employ one myself, for convenience.
>>
>> You are WHAT???? Do tell your reasoning here!
>
> I set out to assemble the most minimal rig possible.
>
> With the retrospect of 400 dives in a tech BC and 600 dives in a BP/W, in
>all conditions, I decided that on some (or -most-) dives, I don't need a
>full secondary necklaced regulator.
>
> The truest essence of DIR -or- Hogarthianism, is true minimalism.
>
> Let's not take what we don't need... Right?
>
> I've used a lift bag scores of times on a warm water drift dive- I kept
>it.
>
> I've used the octo, in this situation, once, in 1000 dives.
>
> So we can minimalize that.
>
> Since 99% of the divers in the water only have a 30-33" reg to donate, as
>will I, and since we're going to call the dive on the spot, I just need a
>reg, for myself, to get me up.

I used to have a 32" octo hose. After doing an OOA ascent with Carol
I bought a 6 foot hose. A short hose basically tries to twist the reg
out of the recipeiint's mouth.

>
> No problem.
>
> The sport rig I have mostly done now has two hoses, no SPG.
>
> Anything else is arguably unnecessary for a warm water, hi-viz dive.
>
> Other dives (tech or training) would have other requirements.
>
> Off the top of my head, the only other two times I had to donate a reg was
>with (and to) studii.
--
dillon

JAFO