Dive Instructors - Open Letter

On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 03:14:19 -0500, "Dennis \(Icarus\)"
<nojunkmail@ever.invalid> wrote:

>"nospam" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
>news:1m2sd2lvnm6aoq8bt0mhfl0ta0rgi3vpef@4ax.com.. .
>> After yet another trip on a charter with a dive instructor present (I
>> wasn't in his class, nor a customer of his shop, and the charter was
>> an open charter), I have to make a simple request of all of you
>> instructors:
>>
>> SHUT THE FUCK UP AND QUIT TELLING ME HOW TO DIVE!!!! Please.
>>
>> I didn't ask for your opinion, nor do I want your opinion. I'm not
>> your student and I probably have more dive experience than you do
>> (especially after listening to some of your instruction).
>>
>> I actually had one clown chastise me for having my safety sausage
>> connected to the right side of my BCD instead of the left. WHO
>> CARES?!?!
>
>You should. Connected to the left side means that you'll be able to
>successfully deploy it in an emergency, leading to rescue, a movie deal, and
>millions of dollars in speaking fees as you recount your harrowing aquatic
>adventure. Connecting it to the right side means that it'll be undeployable,
>search boats and planes will miss you, and you'll die, alone, in the ocean.
>
>See the difference?
>
>Dennis
>
>

Phew, I'm glad I read that, I just went into the bed room and moved
mine to the left side of my BC.

Dennis wrote

> Well, Lee, all I can say is that you are damned lucky to be alive.

That goes without saying. 8^)

> Or I was joking, harkening back to the days of the DIR discussions, where
> any deviation from the One True Path meant you would die screaming in
> agony.
> One of the two.

Ahhhh. You did the DIR thing too well, waaaaaaay too well.

Lee

James Connell wrote:
> -hh wrote:
> >>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/5257704.stm
>
> As with most cases like this, you confuse 'trained' with qualified.

I'm not confused at all. What I see is the possibility of Manslaughter
charges being filed against a PADI instructor because he was doing what
his Agency said was OK, because there's a growing backlash within the
industry that is suggesting that they have finally gone too far with
aggressive business practices that compromise safety.


> PADI certifies you as Trained to do these 'advanced' dives NOT as
> qualified to do them.

Not quite. PADI's traditional legal semantics are that the AOW class
is merely training that is "more advanced" than OW.

And the tap dance for their new "Scuba Diver" class (which is half of
OW-I) is that it requires the holder to only do dives with a Pro, but
neglects to put any (Instructor:Student -type) ratio on the practice.


-hh

Chris Guynn wrote

>> Why? Personally, I understand the sentiment fully, at least I think I
>> do.
>> I'll bet every one of us, at one time or another, has been on a boat
>> where
>> somebody, by virtue of the rating on their card, presumed to tell us all
>> about how we should dive their way.

> I haven't. Of course, I've never been diving off a boat...

Be sure to take the specialty course. 8^)

Lee

On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 11:04:03 -0400, "Lee Bell"
<pleebell2@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Claims that advanced only means more advanced
> than the basic course is right up there with Clinton's
> claim that a blow job isn't sex.

It just occurred to me that perhaps Billy Boy was implying that Monica
did it so poorly that it couldn't be considered as 'sex'... Wow, that
puts a whole new light on the issue... <evil-grin>

"Lee Bell" <pleebell2@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:d%0Eg.9451$q96.4723@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
> Chris Guynn wrote
>
> >> Why? Personally, I understand the sentiment fully, at least I think I
> >> do.
> >> I'll bet every one of us, at one time or another, has been on a boat
> >> where
> >> somebody, by virtue of the rating on their card, presumed to tell us
all
> >> about how we should dive their way.
>
> > I haven't. Of course, I've never been diving off a boat...
>
> Be sure to take the specialty course. 8^)
>
> Lee

Actually, I guess I technically have been diving off a boat before (twice
actually). Both times were trips to Jamaica. I don't really count them
though because the boat only took us about 200 yards off shore and we only
dove to about 45 feet. We had a DM with us, but he was Jamaican and pretty
much didn't care what we did as long as we lived through it.

"Popeye" <popeye@finalprotectivefire.com> wrote in message
news:12e10rqfo05v3ea@news.supernews.com...

> But Koplin's got the cure for "IIS" (irritating instructor syndrome),
> it's called the "dead guy drift".
>
> A barrel of laughs for -any- OW class...

Can't you just put your mask on your forehead these days and watch 'em freak
out?

-hh wrote:
> James Connell wrote:
>> -hh wrote:
>>>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/5257704.stm
>> As with most cases like this, you confuse 'trained' with qualified.
>
> I'm not confused at all. What I see is the possibility of Manslaughter
> charges being filed against a PADI instructor because he was doing what
> his Agency said was OK, because there's a growing backlash within the
> industry that is suggesting that they have finally gone too far with
> aggressive business practices that compromise safety.

You need new glasses, the ones you're using are misleading you.
Stick to your bad photography and leave the legal stuff to the shysters.



>
>> PADI certifies you as Trained to do these 'advanced' dives NOT as
>> qualified to do them.
>
> Not quite. PADI's traditional legal semantics are that the AOW class
> is merely training that is "more advanced" than OW.

and here you make my point.


>
> And the tap dance for their new "Scuba Diver" class (which is half of
> OW-I) is that it requires the holder to only do dives with a Pro, but
> neglects to put any (Instructor:Student -type) ratio on the practice.
>

So you need that? don't you think that is up to the 'pro' doing the
leading? It also puts the responsibility of that decision on said 'pro'
not on PADI

"Greg Mossman" <mossman@qnet.com> wrote in message
news:12e1aq6gl7tn7e7@corp.supernews.com...
> "Popeye" <popeye@finalprotectivefire.com> wrote in message
> news:12e10rqfo05v3ea@news.supernews.com...
>
>> But Koplin's got the cure for "IIS" (irritating instructor syndrome),
>> it's called the "dead guy drift".
>>
>> A barrel of laughs for -any- OW class...
>
> Can't you just put your mask on your forehead these days and watch 'em
> freak out?


"Zip me up! Zip me up!"

--

Popeye
The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -
deliberate, contrived, and dishonest - but the myth -
persistent, persuasive, and realistic. - JFK
www.finalprotectivefire.com

"James Connell" <jconnell@gci.net> wrote in message
news:12dv3cc1ti6m6b0@corp.supernews.com...
> -hh wrote:
>> Paul Foley wrote:
>>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/5257704.stm
>>> "I do not think someone with 47 dives is an experienced diver."
>>>
>>> I have done 15 dives, and I certainly don't think I am one. But how
>>> many dives does it take?
>>
>>
>> According to PADI, or reality?
>>
>>
>> -hh
>>
>
> As with most cases like this, you confuse 'trained' with qualified.
> PADI certifies you as Trained to do these 'advanced' dives NOT as
> qualified to do them.
>
> You may get a pilots license but does that give you the experience to do a
> cross country trip through mountainous country, in bad weather, at night,
> to a small field you've never landed at?

Doesn't it???