Hall's Dive Center: The WORST diving experience in my 30 years in diving:

The WORST diving experience in my 30 years in diving:

I want to share our recent diving experience with HALL'S DIVING
CENTER located in Marathon, Florida.

Upon our arrival in the Marathon, I called Hall's on the afternoon of
December 26th, 2006. My inquiry was simple. What was the visibility? I
was informed 30-40 feet! Cool, I made an appointment for two dives for
the next morning. I was informed that the dive, with the requested
rental equipment would run less than $300 for the three of us.

Having my wife and daughter (16 years of age), daughter having 20 dives
under belt, I wanted to make sure that the diving visibility would be
sufficient enough for them to both enjoy the dive and 30 feet would
certainly offer this to them.

Upon arrival at Hall's the next morning, I once again asked what we
can expect for visibility. I was assured 30-40 feet once again.

After securing the rental for my wife and daughter I was informed that
the cost would be $324.00 for the rentals and the two dives for the
three of us? Fair enough I said. I'm not one to grip over a few
bucks.

While still in the shop, we were informed that the dive master on our
boat would not be in the water with us? Hmmm, I have dived the world
and never experienced this before, but I have 300 plus dives and many
from the key's years back. With the Visibility as stated, I was not
concerned being in the water with just my wife and daughter. We were
the only divers going out at this point.

What turned out to be a fortunate addition, Glen, a seasoned diver as
well from New Jersey was joining us for this trip.

We arrived at the site...Sombrero Reef and set anchor. We entered the
water in chop of 2-4 feet and as a group, began our descent. It was
immediately apparent that the visibility was no where close to being
30-40 feet. In fact, we were lucky to have 2 feet!

Upon our descent, I immediately lost my wife. She was having difficulty
descending and needed additional weight. The three of us, Glen,
daughter and I waited on the bottom for 60 seconds and then ascended to
the surface.

I located the bubbles of my wife who drifted away about 30 yards with
the current. I swam over and brought her back to the boat for
additional weight.

We decided to try the descent once more, this time while holding the
anchor line. Upon reaching the bottom, Glen and I decided to call the
dive. The visibility was too dangerous! I was following my daughter's
fins and could not make out the rest of her body. That's how
treacherous it was!

Upon our return to the shop, I kindly explained to the shop manager
(name escapes me) that I explicitly asked about the visibility for the
safety and enjoyment of my family, and he advised that with the current
winds, it would take a few days worth of tidal change to bring back the
visibility? Why I was not advised of this earlier is beyond me! In
fact, they cancelled all of the afternoon dives that day as well!

I was extremely happy having Glen in the water with me to buddy up with
my wife. Without Glen's assistance, I would surely have had my hands
full and most likely would have called the dive prior to the second
attempt to ascend.

Being the understanding person I am, I requested a credit towards our
credit card for HALF of the dive. That being approximately $150.00.We
used less than 500 psi of the tanks air before returning to the boat.

I was advised that they would NOT refund any amount, but would offer us
coupons for future use. This was unacceptable given the facts and that
I did not anticipate visiting the key's in the near future. In fact,
it has been 6 years since our last visit. Most of our diving trips are
to either Belize or Roatan and these coupons were pretty much useless
for our future use. I would be surprised if this dive shop was still in
business by the time we returned to the Keys anyway?


Hall's Dive Center is without a doubt the most unprofessional dive
facility I have ever encountered. Beware....I would not recommend
anyone utilizing their services!

As a DAN member, I felt it was my duty to advise others of this
unfortunate experience.

Dive centers in the keys are a cut throat business, but as we all know,
safety should come first and in this instance is certainly was not!

http://www.hallsdiving.com/halls/index.htm

On Mon, 08 Jan 2007 10:58:00 -0800, in
<1168282680.449254.107020@51g2000cwl.googlegroups. com>, flyboy08 wrote:
> After securing the rental for my wife and daughter I was informed that
> the cost would be $324.00 for the rentals and the two dives for the
> three of us? Fair enough I said. I'm not one to grip over a few bucks.

Obviously they didn't quote sales tax initially... That's not that
uncommon... Rarely does a company quote sales tax when you ask them the
price on something...

> While still in the shop, we were informed that the dive master on our
> boat would not be in the water with us? Hmmm, I have dived the world and
> never experienced this before, but I have 300 plus dives and many from
> the key's years back. With the Visibility as stated, I was not concerned
> being in the water with just my wife and daughter. We were the only
> divers going out at this point.

Of the dives that I've done in the Keys, none have ever had a dive master
as a guide for the dive... That's just not the way that things are done
there... Dive masters are for tying up to the wreck, taking your fins
after the dive, and ensuring that the box of animal crackers stays
stocked...

With regards to the visibility, you probably should have made an issue of
it with the captain of the boat... Perhaps he could have chosen a reef
further out that might have had better visibility... On the other hand,
sometimes you get crappy visibility no matter what was originally
predicted...

> Upon our arrival in the Marathon, I called Hall's on the afternoon of
> December 26th, 2006. My inquiry was simple. What was the visibility? I
> was informed 30-40 feet!

Perhaps that morning, it had been. The wind was blowing pretty consistently
down here for the entire holiday season. Visibility, particularly on the
shallower reefs, can vary quickly. Once it goes bad, it tends to stay that
way for a day or so after the winds subside. If you had 2-4 foot seas, the
winds had not yet subsided. It can be blown out in shallow water and good
out by the reef line, where Sombrero is, or the tide can carry the silt,
etc. out to deeper water. Neither you, nor Halls can always predict what
conditions will be. I will say, however, that Halls should be able to guess
better than they apparently did, and that they should have had a backup site
planned for the day's diving.

> After securing the rental for my wife and daughter I was informed that the
> cost would be $324.00 for the rentals and the two dives
> for the three of us? Fair enough I said. I'm not one to grip over a few
> bucks.

Sounds high to me, but I don't rent gear in Florida and don't rent anything
but tanks, usually included in the cost of the dive trip, anyplace else. If
you got a precise quote over the phone, even if they actually promised less
than $300, you should have insisted they honor their promise. On the other
hand, it's not uncommon for dive shops to charge your dive to a credit card
when you make the reservation. Apparently, they didn't do that.

> While still in the shop, we were informed that the dive master on our boat
> would not be in the water with us? Hmmm, I have dived
> the world and never experienced this before, but I have 300 plus dives and
> many from the key's years back.

This is not uncommon in most of Florida and certainly not in the Keys. It's
pretty common knowledge among those that frequent this group. You can
usually arrange to be accompanied by a DM, but you normally have to arrange
it in advance and pay for it.

> We decided to try the descent once more, this time while holding the
> anchor line. Upon reaching the bottom, Glen and I decided
> to call the dive. The visibility was too dangerous! I was following my
> daughter's fins and could not make out the rest of her body.
> That's how treacherous it was!

Anyone can call any dive anytime. I would have called it too, but because
it simply was no fun. I don't imagine many people in this group would agree
that the dive was treacherous just because visibility was low, but it was
your dive, and your decision.

> I was extremely happy having Glen in the water with me to buddy up with my
> wife. Without Glen's assistance, I would surely
> have had my hands full and most likely would have called the dive prior to
> the second attempt to ascend.

Thinks work out that way sometimes. I don't know your skill level or that
of your daughter or wife, but it sounds like you were trying to watch over
two others and found it difficult in low visibility conditions. Personally,
I think you might have found it difficult, given the fact that your wife
wound up three times (30 yards) as far from her buddy (whether it was you or
Glen) as you expected to be able to see underwater. I sometimes dive with
two buddies and am generally the more experienced in any group. I've been
diving for a very long time. At any rate, what I do to control a situation
like this is assign the other two divers, in this case, your wife and
daughter, as buddies and I simply tag along. It's their job to pay
attention to each other, your job to stay with them during the dive . . . or
lead. Either way works pretty well. The point is, with a 3 person buddy
team, somebody is pretty much diving solo. That should be the most
experienced diver.

> I was advised that they would NOT refund any amount, but would offer us
> coupons for future use.

That's unfortunate, but, frankly, is better than what many of the Keys
operators would have offered. You have to remember that most of the
operators down there, including Halls, make a living off the tourist trade.
There are so many tourists diving in the Keys that they really don't much
care who comes back and who doesn't. There are some exceptions, but tourist
cattle boats are the rule rather than the exception. I understand your
frustration, but that's just how it is. If you paid by credit card, call
the card company and dispute the charge on the basis of not receiving the
goods or services you paid for. See what happens. You never know, you
might get away with it.

> This was unacceptable given the facts and that I did not anticipate
> visiting the key's in the near future. In fact, it has been 6 years
> since our last visit. Most of our diving trips are to either Belize or
> Roatan and these coupons were pretty much useless
> for our future use. I would be surprised if this dive shop was still in
> business by the time we returned to the Keys anyway?

Halls has been in business for a very long time. Not only do they cater to
tourists, they do extensive training, including training for dive
professionals. They're not my favorite people in the world, but I'd bet
your mistaken about their future.

> Hall's Dive Center is without a doubt the most unprofessional dive
> facility I have ever encountered. Beware....I would not
> recommend anyone utilizing their services!

> As a DAN member, I felt it was my duty to advise others of this
> unfortunate experience.

What does being a DAN member have to do with it? How about as a member of
the diving fraternity?

> Dive centers in the keys are a cut throat business, but as we all know,
> safety should come first and in this instance is certainly was
> not!

On this, we disagree. Your safety is your responsibility. Halls didn't
give you good service, or good information, or return your money, but they
didn't do anything that jeopardized your safety either. The only safety
issue in your report was, as you told it, you wife's fault, not theirs.

Lee

> Obviously they didn't quote sales tax initially... That's not that
> uncommon... Rarely does a company quote sales tax when you ask them the
> price on something...

Probably. If he charged $300 on the nose and Key Largo charges a 2% resort
tax on top of Florida's 6$ sales tax, that would explain it. I can't,
however, confirm the tax rate in Key Largo . . . yet.

Lee Bell wrote:
> > Obviously they didn't quote sales tax initially... That's not that
> > uncommon... Rarely does a company quote sales tax when you ask them the
> > price on something...
>
> Probably. If he charged $300 on the nose and Key Largo charges a 2% resort
> tax on top of Florida's 6$ sales tax, that would explain it. I can't,
> however, confirm the tax rate in Key Largo . . . yet.

Most of you guy's are missing the point....It's certainly not about the
money...hell, I'll spend $300 bucks on a bottle of wine with dinner.
And it's not the fact that my wife slithered off either. For those that
have ONLY dived without a DM...I feel sorry for you. I guess that
limits your diving to the KEYS? Maybe Bonaire?

My last four dives in the KEYS were in fact with DM, granted 6 years
ago, so this was a bit unusal for me.

The main fact is that Halls should have been able to predict the vis
and informed professionally. I asked twice. What more could I have
done.

I wonder what would happen if I could'nt predict the level 4
thunderstorm 100 miles ahead of my plane and route and flew right into
it? And I wonder what would happen if you or your loved one bounced
their head off the fuslage and cause injury???As a pilot, it is MY
responsibility for the safety of the plane and crew....This should be
no different from a dive boat.

The captain was obviously a hired hand. Once we docked, he was off the
boat and in his car in a New York Second...GONE.

Everyone has an opinion, thanks for sharing!

On Jan 8, 12:22 pm, "Lee Bell" <pleebe...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> > While still in the shop, we were informed that the dive master on our boat
> > would not be in the water with us? Hmmm, I have dived
> > the world and never experienced this before, but I have 300 plus dives and
> > many from the key's years back.

> This is not uncommon in most of Florida and certainly not in the Keys. It's
> pretty common knowledge among those that frequent this group. You can
> usually arrange to be accompanied by a DM, but you normally have to arrange
> it in advance and pay for it.

I find this part hilarious. I've been with plenty of tropical dive ops
around the world where the DM(s) either stayed on the boat or pretty
much did their own thing (photo or video) if they were in the water.
This includes two dive boats in Grand Cayman, and several liveaboards
in Pacific and Caribbean waters. DMs are only worth following if (a)
they really do know how to find interesting critters better than I can,
or (b) I'm lazy and let them bear the burden of navigation, towing a
surface marker, etc. If they're a PITA and want to spend their diving
controlling my dive, I ditch them.

I recall one time I was diving off a local boat on a weekend trip and a
couple showed up expecting some sort of Aggressor-like liveaboard with
individual cabins and head and a DM holding their hands. They actually
brought luggage with them. Boy were they pissed.

flyboy08 wrote:

> Most of you guy's are missing the point....It's certainly not about the
> money...hell, I'll spend $300 bucks on a bottle of wine with dinner.

So then why complain? The guy gave you an estimate, and it came in a
little high. Are you shocked, SHOCKED!!! that this could happen?

> And it's not the fact that my wife slithered off either

Right. Because that is her fault and yours. The dive operator didn't
have anything to do with it.

> For those that have ONLY dived without a DM...I feel sorry for you. I guess that
> limits your diving to the KEYS? Maybe Bonaire?

Right. Puget Sound and the Sunshine Coast. I've never been off a boat
down California way, but I'm not getting in the water with a DM there,
either.

You can't seem to manage a dive without someone to hold your hand, and
you feel sorry for us. Rich!

You need to get out more.

> My last four dives in the KEYS were in fact with DM, granted 6 years
> ago, so this was a bit unusal for me.

The fact that you are shocked, SHOCKED!!! that no one will provide you
with a nursemaid says more about your diving experience than anything
else.

Hint: You are a certified SCUBA diver. You should, at a minimum, be
able to plan your dive and dive your plan. If you are unable to do so
without assistance, you should take up something safer.

> The main fact is that Halls should have been able to predict the vis
> and informed professionally. I asked twice. What more could I have
> done.

Proveided them with the crystal ball you seem to think all these dive
operators have? In predicting the weather, we have such things as
radar and weather baloons and other neat instruments. In predicting
visibility, we have pretty much nothing other than on site reports.

> The captain was obviously a hired hand. Once we docked, he was off the
> boat and in his car in a New York Second...GONE.

And? He took you out, he put you in the water, he picked you up, and
he brought you back.

What other responsibility do you think he has to you?

Jerome's Sock Puppet wrote:
> flyboy08 wrote:
>
> > Most of you guy's are missing the point....It's certainly not about the
> > money...hell, I'll spend $300 bucks on a bottle of wine with dinner.
>
> So then why complain? The guy gave you an estimate, and it came in a
> little high. Are you shocked, SHOCKED!!! that this could happen?
>
> > And it's not the fact that my wife slithered off either
>
> Right. Because that is her fault and yours. The dive operator didn't
> have anything to do with it.
>
> > For those that have ONLY dived without a DM...I feel sorry for you. I guess that
> > limits your diving to the KEYS? Maybe Bonaire?
>
> Right. Puget Sound and the Sunshine Coast. I've never been off a boat
> down California way, but I'm not getting in the water with a DM there,
> either.
>
> You can't seem to manage a dive without someone to hold your hand, and
> you feel sorry for us. Rich!
>
> You need to get out more.
>
> > My last four dives in the KEYS were in fact with DM, granted 6 years
> > ago, so this was a bit unusal for me.
>
> The fact that you are shocked, SHOCKED!!! that no one will provide you
> with a nursemaid says more about your diving experience than anything
> else.
>
> Hint: You are a certified SCUBA diver. You should, at a minimum, be
> able to plan your dive and dive your plan. If you are unable to do so
> without assistance, you should take up something safer.
>
> > The main fact is that Halls should have been able to predict the vis
> > and informed professionally. I asked twice. What more could I have
> > done.
>
> Proveided them with the crystal ball you seem to think all these dive
> operators have? In predicting the weather, we have such things as
> radar and weather baloons and other neat instruments. In predicting
> visibility, we have pretty much nothing other than on site reports.
>
> > The captain was obviously a hired hand. Once we docked, he was off the
> > boat and in his car in a New York Second...GONE.
>
> And? He took you out, he put you in the water, he picked you up, and
> he brought you back.
>
> What other responsibility do you think he has to you?


As in all walks of life and yes, even in blogs and in forum's, there
always that one A$$ Hole that feels he knows it all and would argue the
most minute point.

You add nothing of valus like the others have to my post, I'm thinking
you work at Hall's or know someone that does...move along sponge...

flyboy08 wrote:

> As in all walks of life and yes, even in blogs and in forum's, there
> always that one A$$ Hole that feels he knows it all and would argue the
> most minute point.
>
> You add nothing of valus like the others have to my post, I'm thinking
> you work at Hall's or know someone that does...move along sponge...

I'm really sorry no one is buying your "blame someone else" style. You
haven't said one thing the dive shop did wrong, yet here you are crying
like a little girl.

Which minute points are you having issues with?

So far, you've brought up the following whines.

1. Dive shop unable to predict visibility.

Response: Welcome to diving. The ocean is unpredictable.

2. I wasn't provided with a divemaster!

Response: You do not need a dive master to dive. Many people here
prefer it that way. If you wanted one, you could have asked for one.

3. My wife wandered away on the dive.

Response: This is your, and your wife's fault, exclusively. The dive
operator bears no responsibility because you are unable to execute
basic buddy procedures.

4. I didn't get a refund!

Response: Of course not. You did the dive.

So what, exactly, is your beef?

Most Florida operators do not put a DM in the water. I ask if I have not
used the operator before; if they put a DM in the water I don't go out
with them. You should have asked, too.

As for the viz thing, I have a little more sympathy. There are about
twenty seven thousand operators in the upper keys (maybe a half dozen
competent ones). They all have radios. They all tie up at the same five
buoys. There is no excuse for not knowing what the viz is, unless you
are the very first boat out in the morning. Anyone who tells an
afternoon dive that the viz is 30-40 when it's arm's length is either
stupid or ripping off the tourists.

Personally, I try to avoid the tourist destinations.

esg