Narcosis Explained

"The next depth related danger occurs around 100 feet, and effects
different people differntly. Now you start talking about "partial
pressures" and other complex interactions of the gases that make up
"air". Basically, air contains a lot of nitrogen, which is normally a
safe harmless gas. As the pressure increases, however, nitrogen and
oxygen combine to form "nitros oxide" which can have a dramatic effect
on you."

Care to comment?

<capt.bill11@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1171320071.437353.144450@p10g2000cwp.googlegr oups.com...
> "The next depth related danger occurs around 100 feet, and effects
> different people differntly. Now you start talking about "partial
> pressures" and other complex interactions of the gases that make up
> "air". Basically, air contains a lot of nitrogen, which is normally a
> safe harmless gas. As the pressure increases, however, nitrogen and
> oxygen combine to form "nitros oxide" which can have a dramatic effect
> on you."
>
> Care to comment?
>

Sounds like a troll to me!

<capt.bill11@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1171320071.437353.144450@p10g2000cwp.googlegr oups.com...

> "The next depth related danger occurs around 100 feet, and effects
> different people differntly. Now you start talking about "partial
> pressures" and other complex interactions of the gases that make up
> "air". Basically, air contains a lot of nitrogen, which is normally a
> safe harmless gas. As the pressure increases, however, nitrogen and
> oxygen combine to form "nitros oxide" which can have a dramatic effect
> on you."

> Care to comment?

Where did you get that doozy?

http://www.scuba-doc.com/narked.html

http://www.sfu.ca/~jmorriso/kin485/i...s_narcosis.doc

http://www.anesthesia-analgesia.org/...tract/96/3/746

capt.bill11@verizon.net wrote:
> "The next depth related danger occurs around 100 feet, and effects
> different people differntly. Now you start talking about "partial
> pressures" and other complex interactions of the gases that make up
> "air". Basically, air contains a lot of nitrogen, which is normally a
> safe harmless gas. As the pressure increases, however, nitrogen and
> oxygen combine to form "nitros oxide" which can have a dramatic effect
> on you."
>
> Care to comment?
>

Firstly, you need to stop sniffing cans of whipping cream

Secondly, you're wrong. Nitric oxide (NO) is a common component in our
bodies which plays a central role in numerous things, ranging from
neurotransduction, to bacterial clearance, to giving you an erection.
It's only known synthesis pathway within our bodies is via enzymes
called "nitric oxide synthetase" - AKA NOS. None of these use nitrogen
as a reagent, as nitrogen is simply too chemically inert for our bodies
to convert it into anything. Instead, the nitrogen is stripped from
L-argine, an amino acid.

The anesthetic effect of NO appears to be due to its absorption into
neural cell membranes, where it interferes with the transmission of
neural impulses.

Bryan

capt.bill11@verizon.net wrote

> "The next depth related danger occurs around 100 feet, and effects
> different people differntly. Now you start talking about "partial
> pressures" and other complex interactions of the gases that make up
> "air". Basically, air contains a lot of nitrogen, which is normally a
> safe harmless gas. As the pressure increases, however, nitrogen and
> oxygen combine to form "nitros oxide" which can have a dramatic effect
> on you." Care to comment?

Interesting.

First, Bill's been around for a long time. Hi Bill. Nice to see you back.
Second, he's not a troll, unless your definition of troll includes on topic
comments intended to stimulate interesting discussion. If this is a troll,
we could use more like it.

Several people pointed out that nitrogen narcosis is a form of inert gas
narcosis, sure it is, but that does not mean that the nitrogen causing the
inert gas narcosis isn't nitrous oxide, N2O rather than N2. Personally, I
haven't a clue, but it's an interesting idea.

Lee

Bryan Heit wrote

>> As the pressure increases, however, nitrogen and oxygen combine to form
>> "nitros oxide" which can have a dramatic effect
>> on you."

> Secondly, you're wrong. Nitric oxide (NO) is a common component in our
> bodies which plays a central role in numerous things, ranging from
> neurotransduction, to bacterial clearance, to giving you an erection. It's
> only known synthesis pathway within our bodies is via enzymes called
> "nitric oxide synthetase" - AKA NOS. None of these use nitrogen as a
> reagent, as nitrogen is simply too chemically inert for our bodies to
> convert it into anything. Instead, the nitrogen is stripped from
> L-argine, an amino acid.
>
> The anesthetic effect of NO appears to be due to its absorption into
> neural cell membranes, where it interferes with the transmission of neural
> impulses.

Seems to me that he's not the only one that's wrong. Everything I've seen
says that Nitrous Oxide, also known as dinitrogen monoxide, is N2O, not NO.
As for interfering with the transmission of neural impulses, doesn't that
describe nitrogen narcosis as well?

Lee

On Feb 12, 9:18 pm, "Lee Bell" <pleebe...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> capt.bil...@verizon.net wrote
>
> > "The next depth related danger occurs around 100 feet, and effects
> > different people differntly. Now you start talking about "partial
> > pressures" and other complex interactions of the gases that make up
> > "air". Basically, air contains a lot of nitrogen, which is normally a
> > safe harmless gas. As the pressure increases, however, nitrogen and
> > oxygen combine to form "nitros oxide" which can have a dramatic effect
> > on you." Care to comment?
>
> Interesting.
>
> First, Bill's been around for a long time. Hi Bill. Nice to see you back.
> Second, he's not a troll, unless your definition of troll includes on topic
> comments intended to stimulate interesting discussion. If this is a troll,
> we could use more like it.
>
> Several people pointed out that nitrogen narcosis is a form of inert gas
> narcosis, sure it is, but that does not mean that the nitrogen causing the
> inert gas narcosis isn't nitrous oxide, N2O rather than N2. Personally, I
> haven't a clue, but it's an interesting idea.
>
> Lee

Thanks Lee for the "welcome back".

I got that off a boating forum that I visit. They just started a
diving section and a discussion on NN came up. Some one posted that
ditty as fact.

When I called him on it he said when he got certified his instructor
claimed that was the cause of NN.

Scary what gets passed on as fact in some course classes.

This is more like what I understand the cause to be:

"Scientists aren't sure, but most now accept what's called the Meyer-
Overton hypothesis, that narcosis happens when the gas penetrates the
lipids (the fatty structures) of the brain's nerve cells. Here it
apparently interferes with the transmission of signals from one nerve
cell to another and disrupts your central processor. It's a little
like spilling a Coke onto your computer keyboard."

<capt.bill11@verizon.net> wrote> "Scientists aren't sure, but most now
accept what's called the Meyer-

> Overton hypothesis, that narcosis happens when the gas penetrates the
> lipids (the fatty structures) of the brain's nerve cells. Here it
> apparently interferes with the transmission of signals from one nerve
> cell to another and disrupts your central processor. It's a little
> like spilling a Coke onto your computer keyboard."

Here's what Wikipedia says about nitrous oxide.

"Nitrous oxide is relatively non polar, has a low molecular weight and high
lipid solubility. As a result it can quickly diffuse into phospholipid cell
membranes. Like many classical anesthetics, the exact mechanisms of action
is still open to some conjecture. It inhibits the NMDA receptor at partial
pressures similar to those used in general anesthesia."

Not all that different, is it? Like I said, we're pretty sure that nitrogen
is the culprit, but I still haven't seen anything that makes it clear that
it's N2 and not N2O that carries the nitrogen to brain cells . . . and visa
versa.

Lee

On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 00:03:17 -0500, Ron wrote:

> capt.bill11@verizon.net wrote:
>>"The next depth related danger occurs around 100 feet, and effects
>>different people differntly. Now you start talking about "partial
>>pressures" and other complex interactions of the gases that make up
>>"air". Basically, air contains a lot of nitrogen, which is normally a
>>safe harmless gas. As the pressure increases, however, nitrogen and
>>oxygen combine to form "nitros oxide" which can have a dramatic effect
>>on you."
>>
>>Care to comment?
>
> Why are you postulating a brand new mechanism? Or do
> you suppose that Argon narcosis is actually due to
> Argon Oxide?
> Occan's Razor.

Do you mean Occam's (Ockham's) razor?

capt.bill11@verizon.net wrote:

>
> "Scientists aren't sure, but most now accept what's called the Meyer-
> Overton hypothesis, that narcosis happens when the gas penetrates the
> lipids (the fatty structures) of the brain's nerve cells. Here it
> apparently interferes with the transmission of signals from one nerve
> cell to another and disrupts your central processor. It's a little
> like spilling a Coke onto your computer keyboard."
>

There are studies which indicate a 1/6 narcotic potential
for oxygen with repect to nitrogen.
Anyhow, the Meyer-Overton hypothesis does not count for the
oxygen window, and thus not for the loss of partial pressure
due to metabolism.

Matthias