Rebreather World Forums

[ this is an very informative thread, both for the insight on the frequency
of DCS and the honesty of the posters, assuming everything here is true.
One describes successful IWR. -mg]


Rebreather World Forums

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- General Rebreather Forum
(http://www.rebreatherworld.com/gener...reather-forum/)
- - bent using a rebreather?
(http://www.rebreatherworld.com/gener...ebreather.html)

cedricverdier 23rd March 2006 11:50
bent using a rebreather?

Hi all,

A poll about rebreather divers being bent while diving with their
rebreather.
- Type of DCS?
- Type of Mix?
- predisposing factors?
- circumstances?

I know it's always a very sensitive topics and many divers don't like to
publicly admit they have been bent. So stay anonymous if you want, but at
least answer the questions in the poll (several answers allowed).

And to keep the figures realistic, please also answer even if you've never
been bent (lucky you!!!) :sarcy:

Cheers

Mark Chase 23rd March 2006 12:01
Re: bent using a rebreather?

Sub clinical symptoms diving 18/45 trimix and decoing out on a 1.3 set point
at 6m prior to a drop to 0.7 set point and a 5min ascent to the surface. No
stops missed normal modified VR3 profile with VPM stile ascent to VR3
shallow stop and clearing VR3 at 6m

Aches pains and extremely sleepy after the dives. Symptoms lasted overnight.
No Hyperbaric treatment sought but ambient 02 used next day.

This happened three times I put the first one down to being knackered but
there was no excuse for the second or third incident. I switched to pure 02
flush at 6m for the final 20mins of deco with fresh gas every 5mins and I
never had the problem again. Unfortunately doing this has put my CNS way
over 100 on a couple of occasions.

ATB

Mark Chase

wedivebc 23rd March 2006 12:54
Re: bent using a rebreather?

I wish some of the other positive responses chimed in here. C'mon guys no
shame, we're all friends.

Thanks Mark

The Purist 23rd March 2006 13:07
Re: bent using a rebreather?

Pain only DCS in my leg after 30 mins at 65ish IIRC - using 10/50 dil, 10/90
GF tables, 1.2 PO2 on bottom. No predisposing factors I knew of - symptoms
noticed about 3 hrs post dive, quick squeeze in the pot and it was sorted.
Had recently dropped from 20/80 to 10/90 GFs so upped the deco again after
that.

decowarrior 23rd March 2006 14:15
Re: bent using a rebreather?

115m for 24 mins, 8 degrees water temp 4.5 hour run time, vpm b expedition
table used

suit flood at 50m on the way back up, 6/72 bottom gas 1.3 setpoint switch
to20/30 at 45m and a po2 rise to 1.5 until 6m where pure o2 was used and
20/30 for air breaks every 12 mins,

very cold by that point shaking and showing symptoms sat out all planned
deco even thoughi was hypothermic which in hind sight may have not have been
a wise course of action although at the time i thought i was doing the right
thing

climbed the ladder unaided unclipped stages walked across the boat to sit
down and dekit terrible burning pain and ringing in my ears as i unclipped
my harness and lifted the lungs over my shoulder it was like someoine
lifting a screen infront of my eyes slowly rising up until i blacked out and
my mate caught me before i fell and made me lie down and did the o2 for a
while symptoms completly went with just a general tired feeling until approx
ttillhree hours later with a pins and needles s breathing o2 all the time as
the boat was steaming back in,

as the boat tied up a sharp pain in both knees started which within five
mins had progressed to a complete numbness in both legs and a loss of
ability to stand or focus, the doc was on site in her car in a matter of
mins as there were no ambulances available for the short journey which was
thirty seconds walk!! but i couldnt walk so it was a necessity had full
tests failed all of them in a real state by this point body in hypothermic
shock severly dehydrated despite takin a litre of drink on the dive unable
to locate a vein for the saline drip to get fluid in this continued for ages
my arm was like a pin cushion, evertually got the drip in priceeded to whach
saline in an atempt to rehydrate but sadly had missed and not realised and
had the fluid going into tissue blown down to 18m for 9 hours on pure o2 had
ox tox dehydartion burning lungs all usuall symptoms twitching started still
great pain, pain subsided when raised to 9m after tenth or elevnth hour no
residual symptoms walked out of the pot pain and symptom free due to the
nature of incident medivaced to the commercial diving facility in aberdeen
for further monitoring incase further treatment so they could use heliox as
a treatment and be mre comfortable

six months later checked for pfo which was negative and no residual symptoms
and all cleared to gas dive agaoin with no restricions

sorry for the long write up dont think i have missed anything

caveseeker7 23rd March 2006 14:17
Re: bent using a rebreather?

It's not long, it's thorough. :thumbsup:
(written with a RB state of mind ;) )

J. V. 23rd March 2006 15:14
Re: bent using a rebreather?

Two bend in right shoulder.

First was in Mediterranea after a dive around 80 m for 25 min, descent was a
hard work because of current, hard work on the wreck too (cause our boat
anchor was deep in the wreck - PpO2 fall around 0.5 at 80 m), and, last but
not least, mistake in computer (HSE-O) programation, diluant breathed tmx
10/70, diluant programed 14/50. Pain came just some minutes after surfacing
(I was always in the water). Treated by IWR, one hour O2 (open circuit)
betwen 9 m and surface, and the days after an other hour O2 (CCR) betwen 6
and surface.

Second ten month after in tropical water, bend at the same place in the same
shoulder. No spécial work, no program mistake, deco longer than HSE say (my
buddy had a VR3). No special reason for bend, except it was an expedition
with two dive by day. It was the second dive of the second day, around 90 m
with diluant tmx 10/60 Two or three hours after the dive, pain come in right
shoulder. Treated by IWR, 90 min O2 (CCR) between 9 m and surface.

Since this last pain, I use heliox as diluant and it seams to be better.

pchanning 23rd March 2006 16:13
Re: bent using a rebreather?

Quote:
Originally Posted by decowarrior
115m for 24 mins, 8 degrees water temp 4.5 hour run time, vpm b expedition
table used

suit flood at 50m on the way back up, 6/72 bottom gas 1.3 setpoint switch
to20/30 at 45m and a po2 rise to 1.5 until 6m where pure o2 was used and
20/30 for air breaks every 12 mins,

very cold by that point shaking and showing symptoms sat out all planned
deco even thoughi was hypothermic which in hind sight may have not have been
a wise course of action although at the time i thought i was doing the right
thing

climbed the ladder unaided unclipped stages walked across the boat to sit
down and dekit terrible burning pain and ringing in my ears as i unclipped
my harness and lifted the lungs over my shoulder it was like someoine
lifting a screen infront of my eyes slowly rising up until i blacked out and
my mate caught me before i fell and made me lie down and did the o2 for a
while symptoms completly went with just a general tired feeling until approx
ttillhree hours later with a pins and needles s breathing o2 all the time as
the boat was steaming back in,

as the boat tied up a sharp pain in both knees started which within five
mins had progressed to a complete numbness in both legs and a loss of
ability to stand or focus, the doc was on site in her car in a matter of
mins as there were no ambulances available for the short journey which was
thirty seconds walk!! but i couldnt walk so it was a necessity had full
tests failed all of them in a real state by this point body in hypothermic
shock severly dehydrated despite takin a litre of drink on the dive unable
to locate a vein for the saline drip to get fluid in this continued for ages
my arm was like a pin cushion, evertually got the drip in priceeded to whach
saline in an atempt to rehydrate but sadly had missed and not realised and
had the fluid going into tissue blown down to 18m for 9 hours on pure o2 had
ox tox dehydartion burning lungs all usuall symptoms twitching started still
great pain, pain subsided when raised to 9m after tenth or elevnth hour no
residual symptoms walked out of the pot pain and symptom free due to the
nature of incident medivaced to the commercial diving facility in aberdeen
for further monitoring incase further treatment so they could use heliox as
a treatment and be mre comfortable

six months later checked for pfo which was negative and no residual symptoms
and all cleared to gas dive agaoin with no restricions

sorry for the long write up dont think i have missed anything

Ahhh, hence the title 'decowarrior' right? :) Jeez, that hurt just reading
it. :o Glad you walked away from it OK.

cedricverdier 23rd March 2006 19:59
Re: bent using a rebreather?

Been bend a few years ago while being a safety diver for a free diving
competition in the Red Sea. I spent 20 minutes at 80m on trimix with an
Inspiration. Nice Cutis Marmorata on my back and my neck. Maybe because I
spent the all time looking up and down at the free divers swimming
effortlessly along the descent line while I was carrying multiple bulky
bail-out tanks... :D
Dehydration was definitely the main factor.

Some joint bends also a couple of time, mainly during very deep dives. I
also figured out that the RGBM algorythm doesn't fit me very well. :flypig:

Cheers

Fred Evans 23rd March 2006 22:52
Re: bent using a rebreather?

Sorry everyone, screwed up and ticked Heliox by mistake (instead of trimix).

My case was during multi day repet dives in the 60m - 70m range, total dive
times in the 2.5 * 3.0 hour range. Using VPM B, level 2 conservatism, precut
tables. Had a flu bug and was badly dehydrated i.e. my own stupid fault. May
have also suffered from poor setpoint control, diving a KISS while wriggling
about in wrecks.

Collapsed an hour or so after a dive (captains wife broke my fall, lucky
break huh). Spent a bad night with joint pain in my legs and feet and
generally feeling shitty, borderline for treatment, my call.

Have also had a few close calls while finding my VPM conservatism 'niche',
but nothing a couple of beers and a few aspirin couldn't solve. These I tend
to notice first in the wrists possibly because of the after effects of a
bend I had in both during an OC dive when evaluating VPM when it first came
out .. can't think of any other reason why my wrists might be susceptible!.
Surprisingly after all these years never had a skin bend, maybe because it's
thick?


Regards, Fred

Mike 24th March 2006 00:06
Re: bent using a rebreather?

Mild joint (both shoulders, elbows) pain after 5 dives to ~40m over a
weekend. Not bad enough to say definately that I was bent, but suggestive.

Resolved at 18m on )2, returned after Table 62 treatment completion. Follow
up treatment the next day (3 hours) resulted in most pain gone, but still
twinged a bit for next week or so.

Tired and run down before the weekend, probably a bit dehydrated during the
weekend. Dives just inside profile of tables used.

Got out of water after last dive and dragged stage tanks around. Mild pain
developed over next hour or so. Found out later that one of my buddies had
also felt a bit niggly, so had done a bunch of extra time on O2 at the end
of the last dive - after I'd got out of the water.

Not considered to be indicative of anything other than pushing a little and
getting unlucky, back in the water 3 weeks later.

Mike

cedricverdier 27th March 2006 09:22
Re: bent using a rebreather?

Hi all,

just for your information: my wife had a nice skin bend on the forearm a few
years ago (purple skin and local pain). The purple area was very well
delimited by the 2 straps of her wrist slate. The straps were too tight and
the superficial blood circulation was impaired just in this area...

Cheers

Simon TW 27th March 2006 10:22
Re: bent using a rebreather?

Well you have all read about my bend, if you havent't then ...
http://www.rebreatherworld.com/rebre...who-dives.html

I missed putting a tick in the skin bend box. It was the full set and an eye
embolisum.

Still no reason but the doc who passed me "fit to dive" reckoned it was
residual nitrogen build up over several days.

I don't think that I will ever know what caused it. The only way to ensure
that you don't get bent is don't dive.

cameron 2nd April 2006 03:00
Re: bent using a rebreather?

Bad type 1. Actually a lymphatic bend. Body poored fluid into my tissues and
I swelled up like a balloon. It was nice having boobs for a while! But the
pain wasn't worth it... was miss diagnosed at the hospital. I ended up doing
a 6 after I was released from the hospital and went to see my diving
doc.....long story..... And one I am not proud of!!

160 on air at 1.3
cold
dehydrated
Worked hard
stupid
young
learned my lesson!!

Freef 2nd April 2006 11:27
Re: bent using a rebreather-false impression of RB's

The figures we end up with on here may make RB's look higher risk than OC
diving, in the same way that OC trimix is perceived to be higher risk than
OC air type dives.

It should be remembered that RB diving [like OC trimix] is a more
'agressive' type of diving, and those of us that dive the technical end of
diving ar more likely to get a bend. This isn't just because the diving is
more risky, but the tables at this end of the diving spectrum are less
tested than the air tables.

If you compared the figures for 1000 air dives, 1000 OC trimix dives and 1
000 mod three type CCR dives I would expect there to be a higher incidence
of bends in the final catagory.

If you look at the type of diving that CCR's get used for then you could
compare it to the man in the street who drives his car 12 000 miles a year
and the formula one driver who crashes out at the first corner-he covered
less miles, but the inherant risks were higher.


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