Re: OT Canadian Gun Control

>From: Bryan Heit bjheit@NOSPAM.ucalgary.ca

>I hate to wade into the gun control thing, but I don't think gun control
>helps.

>Personally speaking I think its a "culture" thing - Canada and the US
>have very different histories, different levels of urbanization, and
>generally speaking a different outlook on guns themselves. Just looking
>at violent crime you might assume Americans are just more violent


This happened within ten minutes of where we live this month.

It happend again this week, an armed intruder shot a guy, and his brother
disarmed him and shot him, IIRC.


Tucker High coach, son slain in home invasion; suspect killed by police

By MIKE MORRIS
Atlanta Journal-Constitution Staff Writer

A longtime teacher and coach at Tucker High School and his 17-year-old son were
killed Tuesday night during a home invasion in Gwinnett County.

Gwinnett police said Coach Bill Venable's home was the second house the suspect
had barged into during a late-night crime spree that ended when police shot and
killed the suspect.

"Lilburn police responded to a home invasion [on Lula Street]," said Gwinnett
police Cpl. Dan Huggins. "The suspect came into the residence, demanded money,
and also stole a red Honda Civic."

The suspect then drove the stolen car about a mile to the Woodfalls subdivision
in Lilburn, where he entered Venable's house on Woodfall Way, "and that's when
the killing started," Huggins said.

"The suspect entered that residence, and there were three people home, a male,
a female and their son," he said. "The suspect got into some type of struggle
with the 55-year-old male, and the son came downstairs to see what the
commotion was."

The man -- later identified as the Tucker coach -- and his son, Bill Venable
Jr., were shot.

The teen died at the scene, and his father died later at Gwinnett Medical
Center.

After the shooting, the suspect fled on foot into nearby woods.

Helicopters and dogs were called in to track the suspect, and the suspect
opened fire on a police dog, hitting the dog twice.

At that point, two Gwinnett police officers shot the suspect, Huggins said.

The unidentified suspect, who appeared to be in his early 20s, died at Gwinnett
Medical Center.




Popeye
"I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice
letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

Popeye NCAT3 wrote:
>>From: Bryan Heit bjheit@NOSPAM.ucalgary.ca

> At that point, two Gwinnett police officers shot the suspect, Huggins said.
>
> The unidentified suspect, who appeared to be in his early 20s, died at Gwinnett
> Medical Center.
>

Popeye are you sure they had to shoot this guy dead? Why didn't they
just wing him?

several months ago a Belleville Police Officer was in a foot chase with
a perp (and two fellow gang bangers) who had in the previous 3-4 hours,
carjacked a automobile, committed two armed robberies. Belleville
Police spot the guy and give chase. It is evening their is a nursing
class being held in a junior high school a block away. The perp is
heading towards the nursing class and possible hostages. The Belleville
Policeman unholsters his gun, orders the perp to stop. He doesn't,
officer takes aim, shoots and hits the guy (I got tired of typing perp)
in the back of the head, killing him. Local NAACP has a shit fit
because they could have shot him in the leg. Lets not bother that the
guy had a violent rap sheet 4-5 pages long, never mind that the car he
had been driving was taken from the rightful owners at gunpoint, and
don't forget that he had just committed two armed robberies. The latest
minutes before Officer John Goodwin spotted him, and stopped him before
a situation got worse.

When law enforcement draws their guns and go to shoot a perp it is with
the intent to kill, not wing, not scare, it is to kill!

If we could rid the world of all weapons and possible weapons then I
could see the cause of gun control - until then I will keep mine and the
opportunity to defend my property, my family, and myself!

Joe English wrote:

> If we could rid the world of all weapons and possible weapons then I
> could see the cause of gun control - until then I will keep mine and
> the opportunity to defend my property, my family, and myself!

IMO, the biggest problem with gun control is that people assume it'll do
things which it cannot. For example, Canada's oldest gun control laws
basically made it illegal for Canadians to own certain types of guns
(assault rifles mostly, certain calibre's fit in this as well), as well
as restricted (i.e. need a special license) for other types of guns
(handguns). End result - we own a lot of hunting rifles, but handguns,
etc, are limited to these who need them (police, army), or to the few
connoisseurs who are willing to go through the trouble of getting them.
These laws certainly skewed the types of guns we own, but have had no
significant impact on the number of guns we own.

But gun control cannot prevent crime - and I don't know why people
expect it too. Both Canada and Washington DC are good examples of why.
Both places have strict gun control in place, and yet both have gun
crime. In both cases the large majority of crimes are not committed by
"legal" guns (as in guns which are reigstered/fit the laws), but are
committed by people with "illegal" weapons. In Canada these are often
handguns smuggled in from the states. I don't know much about the
situation in DC, other then what I've read here, but I'd be willing to
be many of the guns used in crimes in DC are illegally brought in from
surrounding states. So expecting some law to magically make gun crime
disappear is stupidity at best. You want to prevent gun crime - catch
the criminals. Punnishing the law abiding citizens, just beacuse a
small minority of wackjobs are misusing guns, won't stop crime.

Bryan

On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 12:54:54 -0500, Joe English wrote:

>
>
> Adam Helberg wrote:
>
>>
>> Unfortunately is not a debate of facts, it's emotion. The gun people believe they
>> have a right to own and carry guns and they feel safer with guns, and no amount of
>> debate or presentation of facts is going to change that.
>>
>> Adam
>>
>>
> We have never seen any facts.
>
> Unfortunately those that believe in stricter gun control never produce
> any facts that the controls stop crime, or gun incidents

Baseball bats don't kill people, people kill people.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/South/08/...und/index.html

>From: nospam@all.please.net
>Date: 8/8/2004 10:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <pan.2004.08.09.02.44.36.499057@all.please.net>
>
>On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 12:54:54 -0500, Joe English wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Adam Helberg wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Unfortunately is not a debate of facts, it's emotion. The gun people
>believe they
>>> have a right to own and carry guns and they feel safer with guns, and no
>amount of
>>> debate or presentation of facts is going to change that.
>>>
>>> Adam
>>>
>>>
>> We have never seen any facts.
>>
>> Unfortunately those that believe in stricter gun control never produce
>> any facts that the controls stop crime, or gun incidents
>
>Baseball bats don't kill people, people kill people.
>
>http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/South/08/...und/index.html


Baseball bats can be stored in an armory at the ballfield.

There's no need for the populace to be randomly armed with them.


Popeye
"I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice
letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain