A rational Canadian approach to firearms.

Hwæt! "Lee Bell" <pleebell2@bellsouth.net>, men ne cunnon secgan
to soðe:

> So far, all Canadians that have responded, disagree with her,
> which was what Popeye, I think, said early in the thread. So
> far, he's statement is

pure fantasy.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Lee Bell wrote:
> Know any that don't agree with John's position?


Well, I am back from being away.

Had a great time in Belize.
Thanks for the tips and advice chilly.

Dove with: Amigos Del Mar
http://amigosdive.com/

Stay at: Banana beach
http://bananabeach.com/

Drank beer at:
Well, I don't remember them all, actually. But, I did not crash the golf
cart.

The reef. and the life on the reef, is fantastic. Lots of nurse sharks
at the petting zoo, and grouper, and turtle, and a remora on one of the
safety stops. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remora

The blue hole, is a hole. Could not travel all that way and not do it
though. The other two dives on that trip, the blue hole, are worth the
trip, as well as the surface interval visiting the booby birds.

The rain is warm.
I can not get over that.
It rained twice, about an hour each time, and it was warm.
I ran around in the rain.

North of the bridge is not a good place for golf carts.

Do not trust monkeys.

I met some wonderful people. A couple from Austin,TX., another from
Brooklyn, N.Y., Another from San Fransisco, CA., and another from
Seattle WA. Great people.

I was outside all day today, it was -29C.
I payed for a week in Roatan today.

David
Edmonton, Alberta

"David" <sojournr@telus.net> wrote in message
news:GbDph.127781$rv4.35611@edtnps90...
> Well, I am back from being away.
>
> Had a great time in Belize.
> Thanks for the tips and advice chilly.

De nada

> Dove with: Amigos Del Mar
> http://amigosdive.com/

Which team?

> Stay at: Banana beach
> http://bananabeach.com/

Too far from town. :^)

> Drank beer at:
> Well, I don't remember them all, actually. But, I did not crash the golf
> cart.
>
> The reef. and the life on the reef, is fantastic. Lots of nurse sharks
> at the petting zoo, and grouper, and turtle, and a remora on one of the
> safety stops. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remora
>
> The blue hole, is a hole. Could not travel all that way and not do it
> though.

Didn't you see any sharks? Didn't you get a kick out of the stalactites?

I just did my seventh or eighth trip in there last month. I still love it.

> The other two dives on that trip, the blue hole, are worth the
> trip, as well as the surface interval visiting the booby birds.

I agree though, that I wouldn't make the trip all the way out there just for
the Blue Hole dive. The two followup dives, Halfmoon Caye Wall and
Aquarium, are fabulous.

> The rain is warm.

Not always. I'm glad it was for you.

> I can not get over that.
> It rained twice, about an hour each time, and it was warm.
> I ran around in the rain.

LOL, I did that on my first trip too. No one else was out on the streets
except my friends and me. We laughed and giggled and splashed through mud
puddles in the potholes, like a bunch of kids.

> North of the bridge is not a good place for golf carts.

Quite often, south of the bridge isn't a good place for golf carts either.
The grader must have run down south before your trip.

> Do not trust monkeys.

Never.

> I met some wonderful people. A couple from Austin,TX., another from
> Brooklyn, N.Y., Another from San Fransisco, CA., and another from
> Seattle WA. Great people.

What about the Belizeans?

> I was outside all day today, it was -29C.
> I payed for a week in Roatan today.

Kewl!! Where are you going to stay and when is the trip?

>
> David
> Edmonton, Alberta
>
>
>
>

Douglas W Popeye Frederick wrote:
> "Kari" <karibelle2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message

<snipped>


> > where you might find a weapon useful? Being a pacifist, for example?
> > Would that make one a "sheep"?
>
> Yes, it would.
>
> Being a pacifist means you trust yourself to the benevolence of those that
> would choose to harm you.
>
> There can be no clearer parallel, in the discussions we have here, than
> between "sheep" and "pacifist".
>
> > "You must be the change you want to see in the world."
>
> Then you viewed the first Youtube video about making a choice, and made
> yours.
>
> Good luck with that cellphone.
>
> I'd suggest you talk to some victims of violent rape, and ask how many of
> them are pacifists.
>

I suppose I should have viewed the Youtube. I have not seen it. I was
merely probing, asking some questions, trying to see how some of you
here see John's position, and determining what my own view is of that
position. As you continue your cellphone references in other posts,
for now I'll just make sure I always have mine with me, as it seems you
feel it might be important. My only hope perhaps? I guess I'll know
more once I've seen the video.

I do make a choice. I respect your right to make a different choice,
and even your right to think less of me because of the choice I make.
I am not the boss of you.

As for victims of crimes, you may be right. A sexual assault may well
change the mind of a pacifist. Or maybe not. If I can make the time
to find one of those "cites" you enjoy so much, perhaps I can dig up
some local newspaper reports where the parents of a youth stabbed at
his birthday party are pleading for non-retaliation by his friends.
They're asking for a kinder, gentler response. Want to get on with
their lives. That is also a response, and a choice.

> ===========
> "Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any
> other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its
> worst."-Heinlein
> ===========
> "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand
> ready to do violence on their behalf." -Orwell
> ===========
> "Yes, making mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep" - Rudyard
> Kipling
> ===========
> "The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in times of great
> moral crisis maintain their neutrality"- John F. Kennedy
> ===========
> "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by
> one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." -Burke

============
"It is easier to lead men to combat, stirring up their passion, than to
restrain them and direct them toward the patient labors of peace." -
Andre Gide
============
"Do you know what astonished me most in the world? The inability of
force to create anything. In the long run the sword is always beaten by
the spirit. Soldiers usually win battles and generals get the credit
for them. You must not fight too often with one enemy, or you will
teach him all your art of war. If they want peace, nations should avoid
the pin-pricks that precede cannon shots." - Napoleon Bonaparte
=============
"But peace does not rest in the charters and covenants alone. It lies
in the hearts and minds of all people. So let us not rest all our hopes
on parchment and on paper, let us strive to build peace, a desire for
peace, a willingness to work for peace in the hearts and minds of all
of our people. I believe that we can. I believe the problems of human
destiny are not beyond the reach of human beings. - John F. Kennedy
============
"One day we must come to see that peace is not merely a distant goal
that we seek, but that it is a means by which we arrive at that goal.
We must pursue peaceful ends through peaceful means." - Martin Luther
King, Jr.


I have to go charge my cellphone.

kari
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> Popeye
> You can get much further with a kind word and a gun
> than you can with a kind word alone. -Capone
> www.finalprotectivefire.com

Lee Bell wrote:
> What's an assault rifle? When you have a good definition, we can talk about
> whether there is a reason for them or not.


Semi, or fully automatic weapon with a short barrel - i.e. something
that isn't good for much other than short-range combat. Here in Canada
we have a fairly convoluted definition, which looks at barrel length,
caliber, automation, shoulder stock, and a couple other factors. It
work pretty good IMO, except that the caliber limitations sometimes
prevent us from getting certain European-model rifles. I can't afford
those, so I've never had to worry about it.


> I will remind you, however, that
> my Bill of Rights says "In order to ensure a well regulated Militia . . . "
> Most that oppose the right of all citizens to keep and bear arms agree with
> at least that much fo the Second Ammendment. It's hard to have a Militia if
> you don't allow military arms.


I'm not an American (obviously), so I don't really know enough about the
second amendment argument to make an intelligent comment on the matter.
Here in Canada we do not have the right to arms enshrined, although
some have argued that it is enshrined, in essence, in our property
rights. Like your second amendment disagreements, everyone up here has
their own take on that, and I doubt any 2 Canadians agree...

Bryan

Kari wrote

> I suppose I should have viewed the Youtube. I have not seen it. I was
> merely probing, asking some questions, trying to see how some of you
> here see John's position, and determining what my own view is of that
> position.

Don't form your opinion based on us. Go back and read what he, and
everybody has to say and form your own opinion. The best way to quit being
a sheep is to learn to think and act for yourself.

> As you continue your cellphone references in other posts, for now I'll
> just make sure I always have mine with me, as it seems you
> feel it might be important. My only hope perhaps? I guess I'll know more
> once I've seen the video.

The cell phone is a reference to the need, by those not prepared to protect
themselves, to call someone who can. The point is, that in the case of
violent crimes, including rape, by the time someone arrives to help, it's to
investigate a crime that has been comitted rather than stop one before it
is.

> As for victims of crimes, you may be right. A sexual assault may well
> change the mind of a pacifist. Or maybe not. If I can make the time
> to find one of those "cites" you enjoy so much, perhaps I can dig up
> some local newspaper reports where the parents of a youth stabbed at
> his birthday party are pleading for non-retaliation by his friends.
> They're asking for a kinder, gentler response. Want to get on with
> their lives. That is also a response, and a choice.

It's a sheep's answer to the problem. If it does not include police and
judicial action for the crime, it's still worse. It's a non answer to the
problem.

> I have to go charge my cellphone.

Good idea.

BYW, there are varying degrees of defensive devices. A cell phone is the
least effective in preventing crime, but it's better than nothing. Pepper
spray or mace is a more effective deterrent. An electric device designed to
shock and incapacitate an attacker is still better. I would think that all
such defensive devices are better than the presumption that there is not
risk and no reason to prepare for it. While there are times when deadly
force is the right option, more often than not, something else is probably
better. Anything is better than setting yourself up as a helpless victim.

Lee

Lee Bell wrote:
> Kari wrote
>
> > I suppose I should have viewed the Youtube. I have not seen it. I was
> > merely probing, asking some questions, trying to see how some of you
> > here see John's position, and determining what my own view is of that
> > position.
>
> Don't form your opinion based on us. Go back and read what he, and
> everybody has to say and form your own opinion. The best way to quit being
> a sheep is to learn to think and act for yourself.

Thanks. I have read the posts. As you well know, finding the nuggets
in the slough of crap can sometimes be difficult. You're right though
- my bad for trying to take the easy way out and ask for 'succinct.'


>
> > As you continue your cellphone references in other posts, for now I'll
> > just make sure I always have mine with me, as it seems you
> > feel it might be important. My only hope perhaps? I guess I'll know more
> > once I've seen the video.
>
> The cell phone is a reference to the need, by those not prepared to protect
> themselves, to call someone who can. The point is, that in the case of
> violent crimes, including rape, by the time someone arrives to help, it's to
> investigate a crime that has been comitted rather than stop one before it
> is.
>
> > As for victims of crimes, you may be right. A sexual assault may well
> > change the mind of a pacifist. Or maybe not. If I can make the time
> > to find one of those "cites" you enjoy so much, perhaps I can dig up
> > some local newspaper reports where the parents of a youth stabbed at
> > his birthday party are pleading for non-retaliation by his friends.
> > They're asking for a kinder, gentler response. Want to get on with
> > their lives. That is also a response, and a choice.
>
> It's a sheep's answer to the problem. If it does not include police and
> judicial action for the crime, it's still worse. It's a non answer to the
> problem.


Not that it really matters, but the parents of the dead boy asking for
non-retailiation in no way implies that they were not looking for
judicial action. Just asking for "no vigilantes, please."

>
> > I have to go charge my cellphone.
>
> Good idea.
>
> BYW, there are varying degrees of defensive devices. A cell phone is the
> least effective in preventing crime, but it's better than nothing. Pepper
> spray or mace is a more effective deterrent. An electric device designed to
> shock and incapacitate an attacker is still better. I would think that all
> such defensive devices are better than the presumption that there is not
> risk and no reason to prepare for it. While there are times when deadly
> force is the right option, more often than not, something else is probably
> better. Anything is better than setting yourself up as a helpless victim.

So I can stick with my two basic strategies:

First, I can run faster scared than you can mad. (I know, I know, I
can't outrun a bullet. You've got me there.)
Second, if I have to, I'll rip off your arm and hit you with the wet
end. And don't ever make the mistake of thinking that a) I can't or b)
I won't.

kari


>
> Lee

Douglas W "Popeye" Frederick wrote:
> "Bryan Heit" <bjheit@NOSPAMucalgary.ca> wrote in message
> news:eo5m73$m91$1@news.ucalgary.ca...
>> Lee Bell wrote:
>
>>> where there is no need for citizens to concern themselves with the kind
>>> of crimes that would warrant defense by potentially deadly force
>>
>> Pretty much true, unless you live in Toronto. Shit, I'm moving to
>> Toronto...
>>
>> Violent crime is generally 1/25th the rate here, compared to the US.
>
> You got a cite for that?

Its a common value thrown around by our media. It probably was true, at
some point in time. Any how, here some of the stats I could find:

http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/011218/d011218b.htm

It's older, but in it the US has a clear lead in murder, assault and
robbery, while we're about the same for property crimes.

A bit newer, but much the same.
http://www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/pol-leg/re.../default_e.asp
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache...&ct=clnk&cd=22

Oh, and somewhere along the line I've obviously misplaced the decimal.
I thought it was 25x, its actually 2.5x. My bad.

Bryan

Lee Bell wrote:
> From another forum. Not everyone in Canada is a sheep.
>
> Lee
>

Two comments
1) did you contribute to her dads legal defense fund?
2) do you believe the right to own a gun extends to owning dynamite?
(yes that is one of the charges he faces)

Kari wrote:


> Second, if I have to, I'll rip off your arm and hit you with the wet
> end. And don't ever make the mistake of thinking that a) I can't or b)
> I won't.

You're a lawyer?

Matthias