BC Question: Backplate/wing vs back wing vest vs wraparound vest...?

.... never have been overly happy with my old Sherwood BC (wraparound and
not weight integrated) and it's finally old enough I can justify getting
a new one. Anyone have any pro or con regarding the backplate w/ wings
vs the back float vs the wraparound?

One of the things I like most about it, is it has two pockets on each
side. I don't like that it floats me face down on the surface and
straight up underwater (really difficult to plane out or hover...)

A question I have is, other than changing tank configuration (for
doubles) and hanging equipment, what is the advantage of backplate w/
wings.

Anyway, I just fishing for thoughts and ideas from you experiences.

Thanks
John

> One of the things I like most about it, is it has two pockets on each
> side. I don't like that it floats me face down on the surface and
> straight up underwater (really difficult to plane out or hover...)

If your BC and weighting system floats you face down on the surface and
straight up underwater, you almost certainly have a serious weighting
problem. A plate and wing won't cure that. In fact, it may make your
problems on the surface worse. Concentrate on getting your weighting right
and then worry about the style of BCD you want.

Having said that, I know one, perhaps two, people that have tried a plate
and wing that did not find it to be a superior system. As far as I know all
that have, are now using some form of back inflation. It's the plate that
they rejected.

> A question I have is, other than changing tank configuration (for doubles)
> and hanging equipment, what is the advantage of backplate w/ wings.

Location of a portion of your weight. It's between your body, buoyant in
most cases, and your wing, buoyant when partically filled. The plate and
wing, or any back inflation, for that matter, facilitates a level, face down
position that, because you're not fighting to keep your feet up all the
time, is usually more efficient. The downside is that most plate and wing
systems don't have pockets on the sides. Some make up for that by putting
some on the waist strap. Others do it by gluing a pocket on their wet or dry
suit. I do it, usually, by doing without pockets.

> Anyway, I just fishing for thoughts and ideas from you experiences.

You have them. The best answer, however is to try the setup and see how you
like it. Be sure, though, to get your weighting right first. Nothing will
work right until you do.

Lee

In article <fImdncLX2alDY8vUnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@posted.interneta merica>,
thequintessentialman-spamicide@gmail.com says...
> ... never have been overly happy with my old Sherwood BC (wraparound and
> not weight integrated) and it's finally old enough I can justify getting
> a new one. Anyone have any pro or con regarding the backplate w/ wings
> vs the back float vs the wraparound?
>
> One of the things I like most about it, is it has two pockets on each
> side. I don't like that it floats me face down on the surface and
> straight up underwater (really difficult to plane out or hover...)
>
> A question I have is, other than changing tank configuration (for
> doubles) and hanging equipment, what is the advantage of backplate w/
> wings.
>
> Anyway, I just fishing for thoughts and ideas from you experiences.

The backlate and wing is an extremely versatile system that adapts to
any kind of diving. The simple one piece harness that many of us use can
be easily configured to suit whatever kind of diving you're doing. It is
absolutely superb in the water, as you can trim out perfectly horizontal
quite easily with it when adjusted and configured properly. It doesn't
magically solve all of your problems though, it has to be used as part
of a well thought out system.

Where do you dive, and what do you do while you're down there? What kind
of tanks and exposure protection do you use, and how much weight are you
using?

Thanks guys:

I may have had the rhetoric turned up a little too loud on that post;
the BC tends to float me somewhere less than horizontal when underwater
causing me to use more energy than I like to remain horizontal. The
opposite is true on surface with the tendency being toward horizontal.
I may be asking too much. On my torso the BC jacket (Sherwood DSV)
tends to ride high while the weights stay on my waist; weight integrated
may solve that, I don't know.

Most of my diving is in fresh water and I generally need little weight
except with full wet suit (in swim suit and lungs full of air, I am
barely positive...) Usually just a skin and occasionally a shorty. I
dive mostly in Texas (USA) lakes, but intend to do more blue water in
the future.

Next trip to the lake (when water warms up), I intend to see if some of
the guys will let me test drive their equipment.

Thanks again
John



Al Wells wrote:
> In article <fImdncLX2alDY8vUnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@posted.interneta merica>,
> thequintessentialman-spamicide@gmail.com says...
>> ... never have been overly happy with my old Sherwood BC (wraparound and
>> not weight integrated) and it's finally old enough I can justify getting
>> a new one. Anyone have any pro or con regarding the backplate w/ wings
>> vs the back float vs the wraparound?
>>
>> One of the things I like most about it, is it has two pockets on each
>> side. I don't like that it floats me face down on the surface and
>> straight up underwater (really difficult to plane out or hover...)
>>
>> A question I have is, other than changing tank configuration (for
>> doubles) and hanging equipment, what is the advantage of backplate w/
>> wings.
>>
>> Anyway, I just fishing for thoughts and ideas from you experiences.
>
> The backlate and wing is an extremely versatile system that adapts to
> any kind of diving. The simple one piece harness that many of us use can
> be easily configured to suit whatever kind of diving you're doing. It is
> absolutely superb in the water, as you can trim out perfectly horizontal
> quite easily with it when adjusted and configured properly. It doesn't
> magically solve all of your problems though, it has to be used as part
> of a well thought out system.
>
> Where do you dive, and what do you do while you're down there? What kind
> of tanks and exposure protection do you use, and how much weight are you
> using?

"john" <thequintessentialman-spamicide@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:_ZKdnbPdw_CRN8TUnZ2dnUVZ_sninZ2d@posted.inter netamerica...
>
> I may have had the rhetoric turned up a little too loud on that post; the
> BC tends to float me somewhere less than horizontal when underwater
> causing me to use more energy than I like to remain horizontal. The
> opposite is true on surface with the tendency being toward horizontal. I
> may be asking too much. On my torso the BC jacket (Sherwood DSV) tends to
> ride high while the weights stay on my waist; weight integrated may solve
> that, I don't know.
>
> Most of my diving is in fresh water and I generally need little weight
> except with full wet suit (in swim suit and lungs full of air, I am barely
> positive...) Usually just a skin and occasionally a shorty. I dive
> mostly in Texas (USA) lakes, but intend to do more blue water in the
> future.
>
> Next trip to the lake (when water warms up), I intend to see if some of
> the guys will let me test drive their equipment.

I tried to get a picture of the Sherwood DSV on the web but that effort
failed. A jacket style bladder riding high on the torso might tend to
elevate the head under water. Your tank is riding on the air so the lifting
effect should be more noticeable at the end of the dive. If you are using
little weight, the placement of the weight isn't much of an issue. Of
course, it depends on what you mean by little weight.

Back inflation, whether in traditional BC style or back plate and wing,
tends to lay you horizontal on the surface. The reason is because the air
supporting you is behind you. The jacket bladder will support you more
evenly. Based on this generalization, it sounds like your Sherwood is back
inflation.

Swimming horizontal is a skill that takes some practice and dexterity. It's
harder to bend your neck to look ahead when you are swimming horizontal.
The tendency is to swim more head up. If you watch divers swimming you will
see many that are not truly horizontal in the water. With experience and
practice you can get and stay horizontal with either type of BC.

Is there really an advantage to the back plate and wing over a back
inflation or jacket style BC? It's really a matter of personal preference.
The dive gear you're used to using is preferable for both safety and comfort
reasons. Jacket bladders are not my preference because they compress the
body. Back inflation BC or back plate and wing are very similar. If you
like the big pockets on your Sherwood, you should probably look to another
BC and not back plate and wing.

> I may have had the rhetoric turned up a little too loud on that post; the
> BC tends to float me somewhere less than horizontal when underwater
> causing me to use more energy than I like to remain horizontal.

Yep.

> The opposite is true on surface with the tendency being toward horizontal.

This suggests you're putting more gas in it than necessary. The problem is,
the bulk of the capacity of many jacket style BCDs is low. Try adding only
enough to float you with your head above water and see if that doesn't help.

Find somebody that will let you try their plate and wing, individual or shop
and decide for yourself. In the end, it's what makes you most comfortable in
the water that is best for you.

Lee

> A jacket style bladder riding high on the torso might tend to elevate the
> head under
> water.

Normally, it's the relationship of the weights to the left that's the source
of the problem. It should not be much of a problem for someone diving with
little or no weight.

> Back inflation, whether in traditional BC style or back plate and wing,
> tends to lay you horizontal on the surface. The reason is because the air
> supporting you is behind you. The jacket bladder will support you more
> evenly.

That's a bit more of a generalization that meets the eye. Most of us are
buoyant, particularly when wearing thermal protection. With a plate and
wing, you have buoyancy in front of your weighted plate and buoyancy in back
of it. It's a fairly balanced setup for the surface unless you over inflate
the bladder. All you need is enough to keep your head above water. Even when
over inflated, leaning back just a bit takes care of it.

In my experience, over inflating jacket style BCDs is worse than doing the
same with a wing or other back inflation. Because the largest portion of the
bladder is low and back, near the back of the waist, they tend to lift from
the waist, pushing the face forward. Again, leaning back a bit takes care of
it.

> Swimming horizontal is a skill that takes some practice and dexterity.
> It's harder to bend your neck to look ahead when you are swimming
> horizontal. The tendency is to swim more head up. If you watch divers
> swimming you will see many that are not truly horizontal in the water.
> With experience and practice you can get and stay horizontal with either
> type of BC.

It's easier with a plate and wing configuration both because of the back
inflation and because the plate relocates much of the weight to the center
of buoyancy. It's easier to trim for horizontal swimming than a jacket style
BCD, but it can be done with both.

> Is there really an advantage to the back plate and wing over a back
> inflation or jacket style BC? It's really a matter of personal
> preference.

Yep. In my personal opinion, the biggest advantage of a plate and wing over
a back inflation BCD is the stability the plate adds to the connection
between the diver and the tank.

> Jacket bladders are not my preference because they compress the body.

Poor design of the ones you've used and/or over inflation. This gets back to
the weighting issues I mentioned earlier.

> Back inflation BC or back plate and wing are very similar.

Depends on the material used in the plate. My setup, with a stainless plate,
is very different. The same setup with an aluminum plate is more similar.

> If you like the big pockets on your Sherwood, you should probably look to
> another BC and not back plate and wing.

Probably true.

Lee