Learn to dive software?

In article <_yDQa.181$Gh.4@news.cpqcorp.net>,
Charlie Hammond <hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com> wrote:
>In article <beut4l$6ca$0@pita.alt.net>, karl@FS.Denninger.Net (Karl
>Denninger) writes:
>
>>The skills required are not difficult to learn for a typical OW student.
>
>I agree
>
>>Nor do they (really) require the "services of a certified instructor."
>
>Here I think we have a basic difference of opinion.
>
>With respect to in-water skills, the purpose of an instructor is two-fold:
>
> 1) Make sure you learn the right (safe) way to dive, and
> 2) Make sure the learning process is safe.
>
>The chance of getting one or both of this wrong without an instructor
>is high enough to justify having an instructor.
>
>If your issue is with "certified", then I aggee to a point, but how
>is a non-diver going to know that an instructor is any good other
>that by observing that the instructor is certified?

The problem is that observing that the instructor is certified provides no
assurance that they know what they're doing or that they can effectively
work with YOU.

The latter is at least as important as the former; personality conflict can
grossly reduce the effectiveness of instruction.

You are at least as likely to have someone who can demonstrate the required
skills for you in a pool (yours or theirs, perhaps) by finding a trusted
friend who dives to show them to you as you are to take a class.

An instructor takes your money, but there is no relationship there for them
to protect, and you've signed away your right to sue if they're incompetent
anyway - so what, exactly, are you buying?

A diving friend, on the other hand, not only has a non-financial incentive
(they like you!) to keep you from hurting yourself, but you might also have
such a friend who believes that skills should be done while neutral rather
than while kneeling on the bottom too! :)

Of course the dive "industry" doesn't see it this way, but there's more than
a bit of a conflict of interest in their point of view :)

--
--
Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist
http://www.denninger.net Tired of spam at your company? LOOK HERE!
http://childrens-justice.org Working for family and children's rights
http://diversunion.org LOG IN AND GET YOUR TANK STICKERS TODAY!

In article <beuvlg$cfq$0@pita.alt.net>,
karl@FS.Denninger.Net (Karl Denninger) writes:

>The problem is that observing that the instructor is certified provides no
>assurance that they know what they're doing ...

BULL.

If this were true there would be no reason for certifying agencies
to exist. If this is what you think, you are in a very small minority --
one with which I disagree.

That said, I do agree that the quality of certified instructors varies
greatly. This is true of teachers at any and all levels.
But the certification of a SCUBA instructor provides a high level of
assurance that they do know what they are doing.

--
Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale FL USA
(hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)
All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.

"coastergeez" <coastergeez@NOSPAMcox.net> entertained us with:
:I recently went on a cruise and the ships dive shop had a software package
:that taught you how to dive. I never made it back to look at this closer. I
:am planing on taking dive lessons as I want to go to Cozumel for vacation in
:a year. It will be about 6 months before I can take diving lessons and would
:like to learn more about diving before I even start. I have search for this
:software but have been unable to find it. Anyone know anything about this?
:
:BTW: I have never been diving before.

Welcome to rec.scuba,..., coastergeez. Has anyone been rude to you yet? Good
luck on your upcoming scuba course.


Dan Bracuk
As Big Ben said to the Leaning Tower of Pisa, I've got the time if you've got the inclinaion.
The Best of Rec.Scuba
http://www.pathcom.com/~bracuk/RecScuba/


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"Scott" <busted@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vh5rssuubfp07@corp.supernews.com...
> If you have a fast connection:
>
> http://www.supsalv.org/pdf/DIVEMAN.exe
>
>
Cool - thanks

"Chris left this mess on Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:44:09 GMT for The Way to clean up:
>
>
>"coastergeez" <coastergeez@NOSPAMcox.net> wrote in message
>news:McUQa.47499$o86.14387@news1.central.cox.net. ..
>|
>| "Dan Bracuk" <NOTbracuk@pathcom.com> wrote in message
>| news:tgp6hv0e75fm94s3r7h4ak66sccva5nvib@4ax.com...
>| > Welcome to rec.scuba,..., coastergeez. Has anyone been rude to you yet?
>| Good
>| > luck on your upcoming scuba course.
>| >
>| Thank you. I understand how a lot of people can be rude in these
>newsgroups.
>| They dont
>| understand I was just looking for extra information as I like to read as
>| much as possible
>| on things I am interested in.
>|
>|
>|
>
>I think that most of the people probably just didn't care what you were
>interested in. I'm not trying to be rude, just trying to clue you in to how
>this ng works...

You mean we just slam newbies for the hell of it?

Hm, maybe geezer should write us a limerick...

Tao te Carl

"It takes a village to have an idiot." - Carl (c) 2003

"de Valois" <devalois@nailedandused.com> wrote in message
news:bf1f2q0m67@drn.newsguy.com...
| "Chris left this mess on Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:44:09 GMT for The Way to
clean up:
| >
| >
| >"coastergeez" <coastergeez@NOSPAMcox.net> wrote in message
| >news:McUQa.47499$o86.14387@news1.central.cox.net. ..
| >|
| >| "Dan Bracuk" <NOTbracuk@pathcom.com> wrote in message
| >| news:tgp6hv0e75fm94s3r7h4ak66sccva5nvib@4ax.com...
| >| > Welcome to rec.scuba,..., coastergeez. Has anyone been rude to you
yet?
| >| Good
| >| > luck on your upcoming scuba course.
| >| >
| >| Thank you. I understand how a lot of people can be rude in these
| >newsgroups.
| >| They dont
| >| understand I was just looking for extra information as I like to read
as
| >| much as possible
| >| on things I am interested in.
| >|
| >|
| >|
| >
| >I think that most of the people probably just didn't care what you were
| >interested in. I'm not trying to be rude, just trying to clue you in to
how
| >this ng works...
|
| You mean we just slam newbies for the hell of it?
|

Who ever said it was just newbies?

| Hm, maybe geezer should write us a limerick...
|
| Tao te Carl
|
| "It takes a village to have an idiot." - Carl (c) 2003
|
|

"coastergeez" <coastergeez@NOSPAMcox.net> entertained us with:
:Thank you. I understand how a lot of people can be rude in these newsgroups.
:They dont
:understand I was just looking for extra information as I like to read as
:much as possible
:on things I am interested in.

Sometimes we understand and are rude anyway,..., dickhead.

Dan Bracuk
As Big Ben said to the Leaning Tower of Pisa, I've got the time if you've got the inclinaion.
The Best of Rec.Scuba
http://www.pathcom.com/~bracuk/RecScuba/


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Your not talking about the download software at
http://www.padi.com/download/godive/ are you?

ediveguy

Might I suggest trying my online academic course at:

http://www.scuba-training.net

Dan
dan@scuba-training.net