Shoulder Strap Release for Backplate Harness

Charlie Hammond wrote:
>
> In article <3F60CB76.8F91E0AB@excite.com>,
> Brian Nadwidny <nadwidny@excite.com> writes:
>
> >13-14 years ago I dove a backpack set up much the way you are describing
> > ... in my experience a weight belt buckle is the less than
> >optimum choice as they pop open when you do not want them to,
> >frequently.
>
> Interesting. They don't pop open on waist belts or weight belts.

Maybe not but mine popped open on the backpak harness. And when it did I
usually had to do an UW doff/don to get the thing back together. I
wasn't big on buddy diving in those days either.

> Can you offer an alternative?

(you had to know this was coming)...No quick releases, of any sort.

Brian
Edmonton, Alberta
www.mossmanscubaventures.com

In article <bk6065$rac$1@216.39.146.232>, Jammer Six
<jammer@invalid.oz.net> wrote:

> In article <150920032158007169%dpsams_nospam@earthlink.net> , D Sams
> <dpsams_nospam@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> € Lastly, I've not had any of the fastex-style buckles inadvertantly open
> € under load or under water.
>
> When you dive enough, you'll probably learn what's wrong with them.
>
> Oh, wait, a Trashpac- maybe you won't.

Hi,

Been been diving since '72. Also dive backplate and harness.

Dave

In article <160920030029354609%dpsams_nospam@earthlink.net> , D Sams
<dpsams_nospam@earthlink.net> wrote:

€ > Oh, wait, a Trashpac- maybe you won't.
€
€ Hi,
€
€ Been been diving since '72. Also dive backplate and harness.

That's not better. That's worse.

That means you don't learn, in addition to going backwards.

--
"We're going to rush the hijackers."
-Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001

"Charlie Hammond" <hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com> wrote in message
news:Zlk9b.4706$5T5.1070@news.cpqcorp.net...
> In article <3f60cab1$0$33811$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net>,
> "Jon Chan" <spicedhamme@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> >There is a way to make the shoulder strap larger cutting the harness,
> >although you do need to have sufficient slack to begin with. Take a look
at
> >the first example at
http://www.ukrecscuba.org.uk/ukdiver/harness/index.html
>
> It is unclear what advantage this offers over what I described.
> It looks like a long way around just to avoid cutting the harnes.
> It also uses a plastic quick release -- I would use a metal, weight
> belt bucke.
>
> Have I missed the point?
>

The advantage is that if the buckle does fail you still have an intact
shoulder loop, just with more slack. It should also be easier to reconnect
as you don't have two free ends flapping about.

In article <150920032158007169%dpsams_nospam@earthlink.net> ,
D Sams <dpsams_nospam@earthlink.net> writes:

>Any particular reason for ruling out "fastex" style (plastic) buckles
>in favor of metal weight belt buckles?

Yes. I wanted to rule out plastic and use metal instead.
Based on my exerience with hiking/backpacking I HAVE seen
plastic buckles fail -- on wait belts and shoulder straps.

>Weight belt buckles don't appear to be made to handle a great deal of
>direct load -- on weight belts and waist straps the load rides on the
>hips and the buckle serves mainly as a tensioning device. Placed in the
>location you describe, the buckle will be load bearing (out of the
>water) and only able to handle as much load as the friction the buckle
>develops between the webbing and closure.
>
>Moreover, the excess webbing fed throught the buckle to provide the
>safety margin you describe to another poster is going to be floating
>around unless tucked in or stowed using inner-tube sections installed
>on the lower end of the harness. Tucking in may be problematic and
>stowing using inner-tubing difficult if flexibility is an issue.
>
>A two inch wide fastex-style plastic buckle, on the other hand, can be
>fit to the harness webbing with a little sewing to secure the upper
>half and will be adjustable on the lower half with the free end folded
>over and sewn to prevent it from pulling out.
>
>Most importantly, you can choose a fastex buckle that is load bearing.
>I have one inch fastex buckles on the shoulder straps of my
>moutaineering equipment that have endured repeated one hundred pound
>(plus) loads since the 1980s without failure. The one inch fastex
>buckles on the shoulder straps of my TransPac II have carried double
>steel 95s to the water many times without any problem.
>
>Lastly, I've not had any of the fastex-style buckles inadvertantly open
>under load or under water. I have had weight belt and waist strap
>buckles open *several* times.

My comment above not withstanding, your argument for the fastex tpe
buckle is well taken. Thank you for taking the time to enter this.

--
Charlie Hammond -- Digital Equipment Corporation -- Pompano Beach FL USA
(hammond@peek.ppb.dec.com -- remove "@not" when replying)
All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.

dpsams_nospam@earthlink.net stopped playing nethack just long enough to say:
>
>Any particular reason for ruling out "fastex" style (plastic) buckles
>in favor of metal weight belt buckles?

Plastic can become brittle and is more prone to breakage.

>Lastly, I've not had any of the fastex-style buckles inadvertantly open
>under load or under water.

I have - the Fastex connector on the waist strap of my Lowe Alpine
backpack will occasionally open under load. I've had the pack for five
years and usually I do a couple trips a year. It's probably sprung open
2-3 times. It's not a huge issue on a backpack, but I would prefer
that it did not do that.

I don't *ever* want something like that to happen underwater with my
harness, though.

-JimG

--
Jim Greenlee (jkg@cc.gatech.edu) Jryy abj lbh'ir tbar naq qbar vg!
College of Computing Whfg unq gb xrrc svqqyvat jvgu vg
Georgia Tech, Atlanta, GA 30332 hagvy lbh oebxr vg, qvqa'g lbh ?!

In article <3f66e32e$0$33804$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net>, "Jon Chan" <spicedhamme@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>"Charlie Hammond" <hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com> wrote in message
>news:Zlk9b.4706$5T5.1070@news.cpqcorp.net...
>> In article <3f60cab1$0$33811$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net>,
>> "Jon Chan" <spicedhamme@yahoo.com> writes:
>>
>> >There is a way to make the shoulder strap larger cutting the harness,
>> >although you do need to have sufficient slack to begin with. Take a look
>at
>> >the first example at
>http://www.ukrecscuba.org.uk/ukdiver/harness/index.html
>>
>> It is unclear what advantage this offers over what I described.
>> It looks like a long way around just to avoid cutting the harnes.
>> It also uses a plastic quick release -- I would use a metal, weight
>> belt bucke.
>>
>> Have I missed the point?
>>
>
>The advantage is that if the buckle does fail you still have an intact
>shoulder loop, just with more slack. It should also be easier to reconnect
>as you don't have two free ends flapping about.

HMmm... If the buckle FAILS, the strap would be too long to be useful,
I would think. On the other hand, if it just OPENS unintended, the I can
see that it would be easier to re-fasten. This at the cost of being
possibly marginally less benefitial for doffing and doning.

Good thoughts! Thanks for your posting.

--
Charlie Hammond -- Digital Equipment Corporation -- Pompano Beach FL USA
(hammond@peek.ppb.dec.com -- remove "@not" when replying)
All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.

In article <bk731h$8fh$1@news-int.gatech.edu>,
<Jim.Greenlee@cc.gatech.edu> wrote:

> dpsams_nospam@earthlink.net stopped playing nethack just long enough to say:
> >
> >Any particular reason for ruling out "fastex" style (plastic) buckles
> >in favor of metal weight belt buckles?
>
> Plastic can become brittle and is more prone to breakage.
>
> >Lastly, I've not had any of the fastex-style buckles inadvertantly open
> >under load or under water.
>
> I have - the Fastex connector on the waist strap of my Lowe Alpine
> backpack will occasionally open under load. I've had the pack for five
> years and usually I do a couple trips a year. It's probably sprung open
> 2-3 times. It's not a huge issue on a backpack, but I would prefer
> that it did not do that.
>
> I don't *ever* want something like that to happen underwater with my
> harness, though.

Hi,

Use a Lowe Specialist Series myself.

Dave

hammond@not@peek.enet.dec.com stopped playing nethack just long enough to say:
>>
>>I had never realized, Jim, that you are a "Do what I say, not what I do"
>>kind of guy. Why haven't you change this backpack?
>
>I appolgize for an apparently unfair shot at you, Jim.

Actually Charlie, I thought it was a completely fair question, and so
I'm going to answer it in spite of your apology. Note that I am not
interested in seeing this develop into a protracted discussion about
backpacking - we have rec.backcountry for that . If anyone wants to
discuss this with me further, then I invite you to contact me off-line.

Anyways ...

One thing that I have noticed about backpacking is that it has a lot in
common with diving - requires highly specialized equipment, good
physical conditioning, minimalist approach, etc. In my opinion, the
whole DIR/Hogarthian philosophy applies as much to backpacking as it
does to diving - maybe even more so. This is a fact which is fairly
obvious to me now (and probably should have been a while ago, but
wasn't .

I don't have nearly the experience as a backpacker that I do as a
diver. Most of my backpacking trips have been with my sons' Boy Scout
troop, and were 2-3 days in length, covering 15-30 miles. I have done
some trips that were as long 50-60 miles though.

The pack I own now was the first pack I ever purchased. I bought it
because I had rented a similar model from REI and found it to be quite
comfortable, even for loads as high as 40-50 lbs. Unfortunately, the
reality of the type of backpacking I actually do has not matched up to
what I *thought* I was going to be doing. And like a lot of "newbie"
backpackers, I made the mistake of buying a first pack that was not
suitable for the types of trips that I typically take - it's way too
big and way too heavy.

So in much the same way that I completely reevaluated what I was doing
with my diving a few years ago, I am beginning to completely reevaluate
what I am doing as a backpacker. I can certainly manage pretty well
with the equipment that I have, but in no way do I consider it to be
optimal. FYI, that's pretty much the same realization that I eventually
came to with my first set of OW gear, and after about the same amount
of time, too .

Lately, I have been looking pretty hard at some of the ultralight
setups, and I think that is probably where I will go next. My wife and
I are talking about doing a 50 mile trip next spring, and are looking
at what we will need to do that. She has pretty much had to give up
backpacking (and even some diving) because of knee problems, so we see
this as an opportunity to get us both back into doing this kind of
thing together.

The chances are good that within the next 6 months to a year, I will
completely ditch all the backpacking gear I have now, and pretty much
start over from scratch, much as I have done already with my diving
gear.

So to answer your question, I actually have and am giving some serious
consideration to the issue of "what to do about my pack". I'm reluctant
to modify it out of fear of hurting its resale value, but I don't think
I really want to continue using it in its current configuration. So I
wil probably just get rid of it. If anybody wants a well-used Lowe
Alpine Contour IV, then please get in touch with me .

That still doesn't change my observation about the Fastex clip though.
The statement was made by someone that they had never seen one fail. I
have, and so I thought that was relevant.

In fact, I *still* think it is.

-JimG

--
Jim Greenlee (jkg@cc.gatech.edu) A reliable source reports there were
College of Computing 20 people logged in at one point this
Georgia Tech, Atlanta, GA 30332 afternoon (1st USENET post, 5-5-1981)

Mike Painter <mdotpainteratattdotnet> wrote:
>My first QUICK RELEASE was from a parachute harness. They
>were on both shoulders of the harness.
>I've always felt that if they didn't worry about it to much neither would I.
>What's more dangerous? Coming out of a harness on the way down from 10,000
>feet or having the same happen under water?
>
>Their utility far outweighs any alleged danger.

This sounds good, except that I have no idea what quick release you're
talking about. I'm a student jumper and have seen no such releases on the
container, nor would I jump using one. QR offers nothing to a skydiver
but danger. To be specific, I'm using the Eclipse container along with
the PD student chutes. Very current equipment. Perhaps the QRs got
outmoded after a few bounces?

Rather the opposite, the harness used on the rig is much like the climbing
rigs or the backplate harness - as few separate pieces as possible.

--
Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com