Unfamiliarity with equipment may have contributed to Alaska diver's death

Unfamiliarity with equipment may have contributed to Alaska diver's death

http://www.cdnn.info/safety/s031031a/s031031a.html

On 1 Nov 2003 04:26:09 -0600, "Dive News" <always@on.topic.always>
wrote:

>
>
>Unfamiliarity with equipment may have contributed to Alaska diver's death
>
>http://www.cdnn.info/safety/s031031a/s031031a.html


Once again an experienced diver kicks the bucket because he could not
ditch his weights. What's so fu*king difficult about dumping weights
and swimming to the surface from 35 feet?

Slow Death wrote:
> On 1 Nov 2003 04:26:09 -0600, "Dive News" <always@on.topic.always>
> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Unfamiliarity with equipment may have contributed to Alaska diver's death
>>
>>http://www.cdnn.info/safety/s031031a/s031031a.html
>
>
>
> Once again an experienced diver kicks the bucket because he could not
> ditch his weights. What's so fu*king difficult about dumping weights
> and swimming to the surface from 35 feet?

Especially 50 pounds of weights!

"Slow Death" <123@bioforus.uv> wrote in message
news:69270846e8d8ee5dd5a663783696b229@news.teranew s.com...
> On 1 Nov 2003 04:26:09 -0600, "Dive News" <always@on.topic.always>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Unfamiliarity with equipment may have contributed to Alaska diver's death
> >
> >http://www.cdnn.info/safety/s031031a/s031031a.html
>
>
> Once again an experienced diver kicks the bucket because he could not
> ditch his weights. What's so fu*king difficult about dumping weights
> and swimming to the surface from 35 feet?

Adrenalin, thats whats difficult.

Its gets all of us in different ways and with all the training in the world,
you cant plan for how the rush will hit you. Recent inquests, St Abbs and
Fort William, have shown that trained divers who get into difficulty,
sometimes dont do as they are trained.

Personally speaking I've not been in a serious situation diving (A couple of
freeflows and an entrapment) but in my line of work I have been trained in
how to deal with an armed raid. This involved mock ups and having knives
and unloaded guns pointed at me in a controlled environment. There is no
adrenelin rush in this situation, excitment yes, but fear of death no.

A year after this training took place, I was involved in an armed raid which
involved a pistol being aimed directly at me in 20 feet in front of me by a
14 year kid, in the space of 2 seconds I'd gone from going about my everyday
job to realising I'm very close to death and every action I do from here on
in, my life, and those of my staff depend on it. This wasn't a rush like
parachuting, bungee jumping, motorbiking or whatever, this was a life or
death situation. It like your first dive, jump, orgasm, all in one go and
then amplified 1000 times. You feel every heartbeat as if your heart is a
V12 engine in your chest, your limbs are ten times their weight, and your
blood feels 5 times its normal temperature. Forget about breathing, thats
an involuntary action that up until now you never thought about, then all of
the sudden you realise that you need to breathe and force your lungs open.
Thats all you think about for what seems like hours, but it is in fact micro
seconds. Then you react, some react as per training, do as the situation
dictates, the enemy is the dangerous animal, you are the hunted, you do as
they say. I can talk about from experience now.

Then there are ones who react with their instincts, to counter react or do
something completely irrational, these are normally the ones who currently
have an epitath six feet above their heads. Its not their fault, its not
the trainings fault, its natures fault for making us all different.

I have friends who have personal involvement with an underwater death. The
man they failed to resusitate was a man of good intelligence, who was a
trained, qualified and experienced diver who didn't react to a problem as he
was trained (his BC hose was unconnected at the surface). This man was also
GP who had saved many lives and helped hundreds of people live a better or
longer life than nature intended.

Next time you find yourself, a loved one or a friend, being dragged out of
the water, just remember those who are trained to keep you alive, and
experience adrenalin rushes similar to those I speak of, whilst performing
CPR etc.

Whats so f**king difficult about that then?


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"Splosh Junkie" <diver@whsmithnet.co.uk> wrote in message news:<3fa4ef5e_1@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com>...
> "Slow Death" <123@bioforus.uv> wrote in message
> news:69270846e8d8ee5dd5a663783696b229@news.teranew s.com...
> > On 1 Nov 2003 04:26:09 -0600, "Dive News" <always@on.topic.always>
> > wrote:
> > >Unfamiliarity with equipment may have contributed to Alaska diver's death
> > >
> > >http://www.cdnn.info/safety/s031031a/s031031a.html
> > >
> > Once again an experienced diver kicks the bucket because he could not
> > ditch his weights. What's so fu*king difficult about dumping weights
> > and swimming to the surface from 35 feet?
>
> Adrenalin, thats whats difficult.
>
> Its gets all of us in different ways and with all the training in the world,
> you cant plan for how the rush will hit you. Recent inquests, St Abbs and
> Fort William, have shown that trained divers who get into difficulty,
> sometimes dont do as they are trained.

SNIPPED the middle of a great post...
>
> Next time you find yourself, a loved one or a friend, being dragged out of
> the water, just remember those who are trained to keep you alive, and
> experience adrenalin rushes similar to those I speak of, whilst performing
> CPR etc.
>
> Whats so f**king difficult about that then?

Great post! It's very helpful to hear some refreshingly honest and
humble insight based on real experience, and without posturing and
pretense. Thanks.

A humble respect for the power of adrenalin leads me to believe that
the same thing could happen to me. It's a "fight or flight" response,
not a "think" response. Trained behaviors don't always get activated.

I got smartened up once on a solo dive 80 feet down in reduced vis,
scalloping at a fevered pace and finning so hard that my heart and
lungs were screaming, when a drifting plastic bag suddenly wrapped
itself around my face. It was a bug-eyed moment of terror that could
have easily led to panic. Since then, I stay a little further away
from the panic threshold by keeping well within my cardiovascular
limits.

I would offer my sympathy and condolences to those involved in that
Alaska dive accident rather than a verdict of incompetence.

Dave C

> Great post! It's very helpful to hear some refreshingly honest and
> humble insight based on real experience, and without posturing and
> pretense. Thanks.
>
> A humble respect for the power of adrenalin leads me to believe that
> the same thing could happen to me. It's a "fight or flight" response,
> not a "think" response. Trained behaviors don't always get activated.
>
> I got smartened up once on a solo dive 80 feet down in reduced vis,
> scalloping at a fevered pace and finning so hard that my heart and
> lungs were screaming, when a drifting plastic bag suddenly wrapped
> itself around my face. It was a bug-eyed moment of terror that could
> have easily led to panic. Since then, I stay a little further away
> from the panic threshold by keeping well within my cardiovascular
> limits.
>
> I would offer my sympathy and condolences to those involved in that
> Alaska dive accident rather than a verdict of incompetence.
>
> Dave C

Or how about best laid plans of men and mice....

translation: shit happens.

Or Sorry for your loss.

translation: I'm not an ass who knows fuck all and I'm considerate of others
feelings


Toto

ok, stupid human diver toss the ball...
bye

"Slow Death" <123@bioforus.uv> wrote in message
news:69270846e8d8ee5dd5a663783696b229@news.teranew s.com...
> On 1 Nov 2003 04:26:09 -0600, "Dive News" <always@on.topic.always>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Unfamiliarity with equipment may have contributed to Alaska diver's death
> >
> >http://www.cdnn.info/safety/s031031a/s031031a.html
>
>
> Once again an experienced diver kicks the bucket because he could not
> ditch his weights. What's so fu*king difficult about dumping weights
> and swimming to the surface from 35 feet?

There are any number of reasons it may happen.
The longer post here pointed out that it takes a lot of training to do it
without thinking.
Divers don't get enough practice in doing this, even with soft weights and
in the old days it was at best simulated because messing up the bottom of
the pool was a no- no.
There is also the cost of the weight belt. No this should not be a
consideration but you hear it a *lot* in classes and shops and it enters
into the equation.
If the diver decided to go against what all the agencies have taught since
at least 1968 and put the weight belt under something it adds to the
problem. If the diver *did* have enough training with it outside and did not
retrain it would probably be fatal.

The California Highway Patrol was among the first to realize that most
firefights took place at about 21 feet. They developed a training program
which included 12 rounds in 20 seconds.
Fire six, eject, reload, fire six.
But they were concerned about money.
So the training went fire six, eject the rounds into the palm of the hand,
place them in a container, reload, fire six.

They modified this when officers in the field did exactly as trained under a
real situation. Fire six, EJECT THE ROUNDS INTO THE PALM OF YOUR HAND, then
stand there and get hit because you had no place to put the valuable
cartridges and had a hard time dropping them.

After a few incidents they started "wasting" the brass.

Splosh Junkie wrote:
> "Slow Death" <123@bioforus.uv> wrote in message
> news:69270846e8d8ee5dd5a663783696b229@news.teranew s.com...
>
>>On 1 Nov 2003 04:26:09 -0600, "Dive News" <always@on.topic.always>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Unfamiliarity with equipment may have contributed to Alaska diver's death
>>>
>>>http://www.cdnn.info/safety/s031031a/s031031a.html
>>
>>
>>Once again an experienced diver kicks the bucket because he could not
>>ditch his weights. What's so fu*king difficult about dumping weights
>>and swimming to the surface from 35 feet?
>

a better Q is - why didn't he go to the bailout? remove the immediate
problem THEN solve the rest.

>
> Adrenalin, thats whats difficult.
>
> Its gets all of us in different ways and with all the training in the world,
> you cant plan for how the rush will hit you. Recent inquests, St Abbs and
> Fort William, have shown that trained divers who get into difficulty,
> sometimes dont do as they are trained.
>
< snipped>

research has also shown that as panic sets in there's a narrowing of
'thought'. best i can explain it is training is like an onion with the
most basic training the innermost shell of the onion. as panic ( and not
just panic, it happens as the task load increases) sets in the most
recently ;earned skills are forgotten and you progresivly fall back on
older and older learned responses - till you have nothing left then
that's true panic! i truely think "dropping the weights" isn't stressed
enough nor practiced enough (if at all) in Basic courses. the fear of
law suits from an accident in training really leaves most divers in a
bad way later.

Toto wrote:
>
> Or how about best laid plans of men and mice....
>
> translation: shit happens.
>
> Or Sorry for your loss.
>
> translation: I'm not an ass who knows fuck all and I'm considerate of others
> feelings
>
>
> Toto
>
> ok, stupid human diver toss the ball...
> bye
>
>
>

you are possibly the dumest SOB i'v ever had the displeasure of finding
on usenet. *PLONK*

Lee Bell wrote:
> "Toto" wrote
>
>
>>*PLONK*
>
>
>>WTF is that Your brain falling in the toilet while you take a piss.
>
>
> No, that would be plink. To get a good PLONK, you need something with
> reasonable mass.
>
> Lee
>
>

i think that was an insult, lee.

for toto: which i think it is safe to assume is short (and missspelled)
for "total dipshit" - it's the sound of your silly useless posts dropong
into a kill file, i knew you were stupid but even a reletively new
usenet user can catch that one.