Force Fins forces Rodale's Scuba Diving to pay for scuba equipment ratings scam

friscuba@hawaii.rr.com (friscuba) wrote:
>
> Let's face it. I read the initial Rodale's report on split fins, they
> reported at the time they had been trying to get Force fins submitted
> for reviews for years, and only bought them after Apollo presented a
> pair of their own fins for review and tests. Force fins apparently
> tested superior to all fins in the test, except the split fins from
> Apollo. The market jumped for those which placed at the top of
> Rodale's test results...not the one which would have likely topped the
> test in previous years if they had only submitted their product for
> tests... Opportunites lost, perhaps Force would have cleaned up if
> only they had participated willingly in previous years.


The problem is that you can't really have true objectivity when you
insist that vendors donate their products for review: this element
alone creates a source of a bias (BTW, hadn't ScubaPro also been a
'decliner' for years?).

Afterall, if every Tom, Dick and Harry with a webpage (a public presence
as an independent, unbiased evaluator), the world's manufacturers would
clearly go out of business providing free 'evaluation' goods to all of
them, instead of making each of these businesses pay their own way.


From a business perspective, let's face realities here: to buy a dozen
pairs of fins for a test would run less than $2K.

That's too much for Tom/Dick/Harry, but for Rodale's, that's a drop in
the bucket: a recent Audit Bureau of Circulations report, Rodale's
Scuba Diving had a monthly paid circulation of 186,000 and a total
readership of more than 1 million (BTW, they also report that Scuba
Diving readers have an average household income of $121,000).

So to spend an extra $2K for review gear for each and every issue works
out to a per-magazine cost of 13 cents/year, or 2 cents per reader-year.


Considering that it costs them significantly more than this to mail out
each "subscription will lapse 6 [5, 4, 3] months from now" reminder, it
is quite transparent where their business priorities really lie.


-hh

" H. Huntzinger" wrote

> Afterall, if every Tom, Dick and Harry with a webpage (a public presence
> as an independent, unbiased evaluator), the world's manufacturers would
> clearly go out of business providing free 'evaluation' goods to all of
> them, instead of making each of these businesses pay their own way.

This does not wash. The fact is, products that are highly rated by any
testing agency sell better than those that are not. It is not at all clear
that the world's manufacturers would suffer any adverse financial effect at
all. What is clear is that those that submitted the best products would
gain market share at the expense of those that could not, or would not
compete. I don't see the downside.

> So to spend an extra $2K for review gear for each and every issue works
> out to a per-magazine cost of 13 cents/year, or 2 cents per reader-year.

It's not an extra $2k, is it? Fins are one of many items the company tests.
They test BCDs, regulators, knives, lights, just about everything you can
think of related to diving and a lot of things that aren't all that closely
related.

Lee

"Lee Bell" wrote

> " H. Huntzinger" wrote> > Afterall, if every Tom, Dick and Harry with a
webpage (a public presence
> > as an independent, unbiased evaluator), the world's manufacturers would
> > clearly go out of business providing free 'evaluation' goods to all of
> > them, instead of making each of these businesses pay their own way.
>
> This does not wash. The fact is, products that are highly rated by any
> testing agency sell better than those that are not.
> What is clear is that those that submitted the best products would
> gain market share at the expense of those that could not, or would not
> compete. I don't see the downside.

I view it akin to paying off some gossip rag editor to either put your
client in his column... or the opposite.

No SCUBA mag (including Bin Ladinson's Blundercurrent) is above taking
advertiser's money. There are no saints.

Give gear too SDM? Then to everybody else- or be prepared to suffer the fate
offered by the "Union of SCUBA Divers" (or similar to whatever that deal
Denninger is working on).

Until Consumer Reports recognizes what a broad market SCUBA divers
represent, and that their readership's SCUBA gear buying habits make any
sense... we're stuck with what we've got.

If left to their own devices (ie: no input from the store employee of the
store that they first stumbled into) most buyers would buy the brand with
the most L.E.D.'s or silkscreened sharks on them.

And pink snorkels.

Doc

"Robert \"Doc\" Adelman, C.I.D." <lawyers-guns-money@att.net> pounded
away at his keyboard resulting in:
:Until Consumer Reports recognizes what a broad market SCUBA divers
:represent, and that their readership's SCUBA gear buying habits make any
:sense... we're stuck with what we've got.

Maybe they realize how narrow a market scuba divers are, which is why
they don't bother.

Dan Bracuk
If at first you don't succeed, you run the risk of failure.
The Best of rec.scuba http://www.pathcom.com/~bracuk/RecScuba/


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Lee Bell <leebell@ix.remove.netcom.com> wrote:
>> So to spend an extra $2K for review gear for each and every issue works
>> out to a per-magazine cost of 13 cents/year, or 2 cents per reader-year.
>
>It's not an extra $2k, is it? Fins are one of many items the company tests.
>They test BCDs, regulators, knives, lights, just about everything you can
>think of related to diving and a lot of things that aren't all that closely
>related.

And yet they don't end up with worthless gear at the end of the test.
Bought at the DM shop discount rate, and then sold off to those at RSD, or
even outside, the costs aren't that steep. (Well, except maybe to find a
sucker for the Mares turkey)

--
Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com

> If left to their own devices (ie: no input from the store employee of the
> store that they first stumbled into) most buyers would buy the brand with
> the most L.E.D.'s or silkscreened sharks on them.
>
> And pink snorkels.
>
> Doc

What's wrong with pink snorkels? Some of my best friends have pink snorkels.



Blessings and safe diving,
Tom
http://www.scuba-accessories.com

"Jason O'Rourke" <jor@soda.csua.berkeley.edu> wrote in message
news:br40fo$15qr$1@agate.berkeley.edu...
> Lee Bell <leebell@ix.remove.netcom.com> wrote:
> >> So to spend an extra $2K for review gear for each and every issue works
> >> out to a per-magazine cost of 13 cents/year, or 2 cents per
reader-year.
> >
> >It's not an extra $2k, is it? Fins are one of many items the company
tests.
> >They test BCDs, regulators, knives, lights, just about everything you can
> >think of related to diving and a lot of things that aren't all that
closely
> >related.
>
> And yet they don't end up with worthless gear at the end of the test.
> Bought at the DM shop discount rate, and then sold off to those at RSD, or
> even outside, the costs aren't that steep. (Well, except maybe to find a
> sucker for the Mares turkey)

Mares is making turkeys now? Wow, do they have a titanium version?

Chris Guynn left this mess on Tue, 09 Dec 2003 15:04:54 GMT for The Way to clean
up:
>
>
>"Jason O'Rourke" <jor@soda.csua.berkeley.edu> wrote in message
>news:br40fo$15qr$1@agate.berkeley.edu...
>> Lee Bell <leebell@ix.remove.netcom.com> wrote:
>> >> So to spend an extra $2K for review gear for each and every issue works
>> >> out to a per-magazine cost of 13 cents/year, or 2 cents per
>reader-year.
>> >
>> >It's not an extra $2k, is it? Fins are one of many items the company
>tests.
>> >They test BCDs, regulators, knives, lights, just about everything you can
>> >think of related to diving and a lot of things that aren't all that
>closely
>> >related.
>>
>> And yet they don't end up with worthless gear at the end of the test.
>> Bought at the DM shop discount rate, and then sold off to those at RSD, or
>> even outside, the costs aren't that steep. (Well, except maybe to find a
>> sucker for the Mares turkey)
>
>Mares is making turkeys now? Wow, do they have a titanium version?

It's only a backplate and wings.

Tao te Carl
"It takes a village to have an idiot." - Carl (c) 2003

(Kudos to Cap'n Jim Wyatt for this link) BEFORE you ask a dumb-ass question
here...http://www.speakeasy.org/~neilco/bart.gif

"de Valois" <devalois@nailedandused.com> wrote in message
news:br57hl01gvc@drn.newsguy.com...
> Chris Guynn left this mess on Tue, 09 Dec 2003 15:04:54 GMT for The Way to
clean
> up:
> >
> >
> >"Jason O'Rourke" <jor@soda.csua.berkeley.edu> wrote in message
> >news:br40fo$15qr$1@agate.berkeley.edu...
> >> Lee Bell <leebell@ix.remove.netcom.com> wrote:
> >> >> So to spend an extra $2K for review gear for each and every issue
works
> >> >> out to a per-magazine cost of 13 cents/year, or 2 cents per
> >reader-year.
> >> >
> >> >It's not an extra $2k, is it? Fins are one of many items the company
> >tests.
> >> >They test BCDs, regulators, knives, lights, just about everything you
can
> >> >think of related to diving and a lot of things that aren't all that
> >closely
> >> >related.
> >>
> >> And yet they don't end up with worthless gear at the end of the test.
> >> Bought at the DM shop discount rate, and then sold off to those at RSD,
or
> >> even outside, the costs aren't that steep. (Well, except maybe to find
a
> >> sucker for the Mares turkey)
> >
> >Mares is making turkeys now? Wow, do they have a titanium version?
>
> It's only a backplate and wings.

How does it taste fried?

>
> Tao te Carl
> "It takes a village to have an idiot." - Carl (c) 2003
>
> (Kudos to Cap'n Jim Wyatt for this link) BEFORE you ask a dumb-ass
question
> here...http://www.speakeasy.org/~neilco/bart.gif
>

"tholt576" <tholt576@scubadiving.com> wrote in message
news:cdf01b59.0312090546.6762f831@posting.google.c om...
> > If left to their own devices (ie: no input from the store employee of
the
> > store that they first stumbled into) most buyers would buy the brand
with
> > the most L.E.D.'s or silkscreened sharks on them.
> >
> > And pink snorkels.
> >
> > Doc
>
> What's wrong with pink snorkels? Some of my best friends have pink
snorkels.
>
>
>
> Blessings and safe diving,
> Tom
> http://www.scuba-accessories.com

Placed between their legs ready for the blondes?

rhys