A couple of regulator selection questions

Hi, I've been an occasional diver for the past few years, got my Padi
advanced open water and bought the basic kit (mask, fins, snorkel, bcd)
but have only been diving on holidays.

Now I'm about to move to Malaysia, and plan to buy regs for my wife and
I before we leave the US. We're going to use Scubapro Air 2's for the
octopus, but I'd like a little advice on main regs.

The latest Rodale's (yeah, I know, I've never been sure about their
review section) has a reg review that I've been through, and I liked the
look of the Zeagle Envoy (simple, cheap, works well). Can anyone offer
some comments on this unit. Any others that would be worth considering.

My dive experience has been limited to warm water, except for my
original open water course that was done in an English quarry in
December with frost on the ground and a leaking drysuit. I plan to stay
in the warm water for now. I currently only dive air, but plan to try
Nitrox at some point in the next couple of years. We'll be diving MUCH
more regularly from now on (probably at least every couple of weeks.

The rental gear we've used has often causes problems (LOTS of
freeflowing regs, bcd's that always leak etc) so getting our own seems
the best option now we'll be doing more. However, other than reading
reviews there's not much option to go out and test the units in the
water. I don't need any fancy options, just a good quality, reliable
reg, that doesn't tend to freeflow and breathes fairly easily.

thanks for any advice you can offer.

J.

"JP" wrote

> Hi, I've been an occasional diver for the past few years, got my Padi
> advanced open water and bought the basic kit (mask, fins, snorkel, bcd)
> but have only been diving on holidays.
>
> Now I'm about to move to Malaysia, and plan to buy regs for my wife and
> I before we leave the US. We're going to use Scubapro Air 2's for the
> octopus, but I'd like a little advice on main regs.

My best advice is to find out what regulators can be serviced in the areas
you think you will live and/or dive. FWIW, I do not recommend the Scuba Pro
Air 2. When it comes to a combination inflator/alternate, I favor the
SeaQuest Air Source, but in this case, I don't recommend either. In almost
all cases, a standard second stage is more easily serviced. Like the
primary, I'd go for what can be serviced locally.

> The latest Rodale's (yeah, I know, I've never been sure about their
> review section) has a reg review that I've been through, and I liked the
> look of the Zeagle Envoy (simple, cheap, works well). Can anyone offer
> some comments on this unit. Any others that would be worth considering.

Scuba Pro, Apex, Atomic, in that order. If you get the Scuba Pro, make sure
the first stage is a MK-25 or newer (if there is something newer). The
MK-25 has an externally adjustable intermediate pressure. I like the G-250
and the R-380 second stages, but my choice predates some of today's models.


Lee

"JP" <justin@jkath.underwear.com> wrote in message
news:justin-8C7DF9.10210013112003@reader0901.news.uu.net...

<snip>

> My dive experience has been limited to warm water, except for my
> original open water course that was done in an English quarry in
> December with frost on the ground and a leaking drysuit. I plan to stay
> in the warm water for now. I currently only dive air, but plan to try
> Nitrox at some point in the next couple of years. We'll be diving MUCH
> more regularly from now on (probably at least every couple of weeks.
>
> The rental gear we've used has often causes problems (LOTS of
> freeflowing regs, bcd's that always leak etc) so getting our own seems
> the best option now we'll be doing more. However, other than reading
> reviews there's not much option to go out and test the units in the
> water. I don't need any fancy options, just a good quality, reliable
> reg, that doesn't tend to freeflow and breathes fairly easily.
>
> thanks for any advice you can offer.
>
> J.

My wife and I use the Ocenic CDX-5 (wife' is a DX-4) first with an Oceanic
Alpha second (both primary and octo) and I've never had a lick of trouble
from either. They're inexpensive and so far have been reliable. I don't
have a lot of dives (total of about 35), the dives I have done have all been
warm water, and the deepest I've been is about 45 feet (roughly 13 m).
These are the same basic setups we used in our training classes and we have
only ever seen one of them (rental) freeflow (it was during a check out
dive) even though our entire class was using them (about 20 students total).

Lee Bell <leebell@ix.remove.netcom.com> wrote:

> My best advice is to find out what regulators can be serviced in the areas
> you think you will live and/or dive. FWIW, I do not recommend the Scuba Pro
> Air 2. When it comes to a combination inflator/alternate, I favor the
> SeaQuest Air Source, but in this case, I don't recommend either. In almost
> all cases, a standard second stage is more easily serviced. Like the
> primary, I'd go for what can be serviced locally.

As usual, Lee offers some good advice.

The problem when using the AIR2 is during an OOA ascent, it is very
difficult to vent your BC while you have that thing in your mouth.

> Scuba Pro, Apex, Atomic, in that order. If you get the Scuba Pro, make sure
> the first stage is a MK-25 or newer (if there is something newer). The
> MK-25 has an externally adjustable intermediate pressure. I like the G-250
> and the R-380 second stages, but my choice predates some of today's models.

For price, Apeks, Scubapro, Atomic. The nice thing about Atomic is that
you only have to service certain models (T1x or B1) every 2 years/300
dives instead of annually. The Scubapro free parts for life is nice but
your must get it serviced annually to keep it valid. But the best
advice is that you will want to buy the reg that you can get local
service.

Specific models: Scubapro Mk 25/S600 or Mk 25/G550 or Mk 25/G250HP or
Apeks DS4/TX50. If you want a smaller second, the ATX50 is good, too.
The Atomic regs are beautiful but need a lot of specialized tools for
repair/overhaul. Model T1x or B1 are really nice.

In your post, you are forgetting an important factor in the purchasing
decision...what is your budget? But lest we forget what Jammer says:
"cost is for strokes"...

--
Matt
matt@gol.com

Thanks for all the replies, that's given me some new things to research.

Cost isn't the biggest obstacle (not going to spend 600 each, but up to
around 300-350 is realistic.

What is it that you don't like about the air 2 apart from the breathing
while venting? I've seen so many of them on dive trips and only heard
good things.

I'll put a separate question up about the zeagle regs.

How feasible is it to service your own regs, I'm pretty mechanically
minded, like to know how everything works and wondered if service
manuals are available for some of these.

Thanks,

J.

G'day,

> What is it that you don't like about the air 2 apart from the breathing
> while venting? I've seen so many of them on dive trips and only heard
> good things.

Got an Air2 when I bought new gear about 5 years ago. With 20/20
hindsight would not do so again but only because it can be a bit of a
nuisance at times. Stems from having an LP hose doing two things. For
instance if your inflator button sticks open you normally just detach
the LP and orally inflate but with an Air2 that looses you your secondary.

Similarly if the Air2 starts freeflowing out on a trip and you cannot
solve that freeflow, because it is on your inflator your options are
very limited. Normally if a secondary gets this way you can either swap
it for another (usually a spare 2nd somewhere on the boat if you don't
have one) or (horrors) take it off entirely and keep diving. If you have
an Air2 in this situation you are now looking out for spare BC and regs.

The stiff shorter hose on the Air2 restricts head movement a bit if you
have to use it but I once lost my primary and did another 60 min on the
Air2 before surfacing (well it was only to 8m). You also may need to
extend the hose length on your primary to at least that of most
secondaries so you can donate more comfortably.

Managing inflation/deflation while using the Air2 is not a problem in
practice, the 60 min above was up and down on coastal coral reef and
needed constant fine buoyancy adjustment. I have never had any problem
with servicing and parts - its a ScubaPro and service agents are common.

Disclaimer: I live in the tropics and dive warm water reefs. YMMV.

regards,
JA

Thanks JA, that makes sense.

I've been reading about dir and looking at the options for using a reg
on a short hose hung around the neck.

J.

In <justin-E3D1C7.15154813112003@wcnews.cyberonic.com> JP wrote:
> Thanks for all the replies, that's given me some new things to
research.
>
> Cost isn't the biggest obstacle (not going to spend 600 each, but up to
> around 300-350 is realistic.
>
> What is it that you don't like about the air 2 apart from the breathing
> while venting? I've seen so many of them on dive trips and only heard
> good things.
>

They have more moving parts than an ordinary regulator.

The horizontal symmetry of a side exhaust octopus is useful.

> I'll put a separate question up about the zeagle regs.
>
> How feasible is it to service your own regs, I'm pretty mechanically
> minded, like to know how everything works and wondered if service
> manuals are available for some of these.

It's hard to get parts.

JP wrote:
>
> Thanks for all the replies, that's given me some new things to research.
>
> What is it that you don't like about the air 2 apart from the breathing
> while venting? I've seen so many of them on dive trips and only heard
> good things.

Don't go there. Air2s are not a good substitute for a real backup.

> I'll put a separate question up about the zeagle regs.

Zeagle doesn't make their own regs. Right away I don't like that. Down
the road support could be spotty or non-existant for your reg because
they have gone on to another supplier.

Buy a Scubapro or an Apeks. You'll be happy.

> How feasible is it to service your own regs, I'm pretty mechanically
> minded, like to know how everything works and wondered if service
> manuals are available for some of these.

It's easy as pie but the manufacturers protect the shops and make it
very hard for non-shop people to access parts and manuals.

Brian
Edmonton, Alberta
www.mossmanscubaventures.com

JP <justin@jkath.underwear.com> wrote:
>The rental gear we've used has often causes problems (LOTS of
>freeflowing regs, bcd's that always leak etc) so getting our own seems
>the best option now we'll be doing more. However, other than reading
>reviews there's not much option to go out and test the units in the
>water. I don't need any fancy options, just a good quality, reliable
>reg, that doesn't tend to freeflow and breathes fairly easily.

Those problems you faced with rentals has more to do with the
maintenence cycles and customer abuse than with the model. Any decent
reg is going to work out great for you. Don't get a crappy octo
(and yes, that means no Air2 in my mind), and don't overspend on
the primary.
--
Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com