A size question concerning BS's

"Oahu Dive Center" <res1iryt@verizon.net> wrote:

> Y'know, all flaming aside, it seems that the "don't mess with what the
> manufacturer made" is a constant theme in lot of things, isn't it?


The manufacturer is expected to be proficient in their profession, so
any "undoing" of their design should not be taken casually. Similarly,
if anything does fail, the chain back to the OEM for product liability
remains intact if the product has not been modified. So there are some
reasons to not muck with it.


> If it doesn't have an affect on your safety (and yes, ANY tinkering
> on ANY toys should be done with input from a professional) what's
> the big deal?

It shouldn't be a big deal. However, if someone gets injured with a BC
that was obviously due to a huge seam welding defect, there's bound to
be some clueless jury who lets them off the hook because their lawyers
claimed that adding a shoulder D-ring invalidated the warranty.


Finally, you sometimes have to give some people their freedom slowly and
gently...let them come to accept the concept of the OEM offering options
and accessories before we introduce the concept that they can also DIY.


-hh

" H. Huntzinger" <{NOSPAM-rm_to_reply}rec-scuba@huntzinger.com> wrote in
message news:{NOSPAM-rm_to_reply}

> That has since been clarified as just that: OEM.
> I agree that it could have been stated more clearly, but I did notice
> that he said "Cummerbun Extender", not "Cobble something together..."

Whatever works for others I suppose. But again why spend extra money on an
item that did not fit to begin with when there are possibly other, better
options.

> Which is part of the reason why I don't like many BP/W's...they're
> expensive and yet there is still 'some assembly required' BS.

Expensive? Umm --- ok. Some assembly required such as adjusting the
harness to fit? I guess. My AL BP came completely assembled, I just had to
adjust and cut the ends. Pretty simple really.

> True, but when the clueless Dive Shop Joe is the problem, a change in BC
> brand or style is not going to suddenly make him any better at his job.

I agree. Divers need to realize that the "joe" is really possibly clueless
and seek out info so they can make good educated decisions. When I started
out I figured if the dude worked in a dive shop they should know what they
are talking about. As I learned and asked questions I found out that very
often times that was not the case.

> Which IMO is really the crux of your arguement. For example, what kind
> of BC do you recommend for me? Based on my posts, you already know far
> more about my needs than Dive Shop Joe...

Honestly, I have no clue as to where you are, or the kind of diving you do
in what kind of conditions so I cannot say.

Kimber

In <20031229073258.01603.00001083@mb-m20.aol.com> Popeye wrote:
> >From: nospam@all.please.net
> >Date: 12/28/03 11:43 PM Eastern Standard Time
> >Message-id: <bsobct$24c$1@cdm-66-76-63-26.nacd>
> >
> >In <vuv4snciu81le0@news.supernews.com> "Kimber" wrote:
> >> <nospam@all.please.net> wrote in message
> >> news:bso1nl$t9a$1@cdm-66-76-63-26.nacd...
> >>
> >> > > And the advantage to bastardizing gear over going to something
that
> >was
> >> > made
> >> > > to fit properly is exactly what???
> >>
> >> > Customization is beyond the understanding of a DIR twat.
> >>
> >> As usual you have no clue what you are talking about.
> >
> >A DIR twat zealot locked into a framework can't be rational.
> >
> >DIR is a joke.
>
> This from a guy who's so afraid to dive he brings at -least- two of
> everything.

Your usual cluelessness is showing. Off the medication again?

>From: Jammer Six jammer@invalid.oz.net
>Date: 12/28/03 11:18 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <bso9ui$ti4$1@216.39.146.232>
>
>In article <20031228220012.01603.00001073@mb-m20.aol.com>, Popeye
><buzcutt454@aol.com> wrote:
>
>€ I've been in a BP/W for the last 570 dives.
>
>But did you get rid of that damn dive alert, or at least ditch the C
>rations?

I ditched the chapstick and sunglasses....




Popeye
I yam Popeye of Borg.
Resistinks in futile. You will be askimilgrated

<nospam@all.please.net> wrote in message
news:bsobct$24c$1@cdm-66-76-63-26.nacd...

> > As usual you have no clue what you are talking about.
>
> A DIR twat zealot locked into a framework can't be rational.
>
> DIR is a joke.

And where exactly have I ever claimed to be DIR. You have absolutley no
clue as to what you are talking about.

Kimber

"Maybe that harness setup for
hang gliding was made and tested for a 150# person. Altering it so it fits
a 220# person may cause it to fail."

It wouldn't, but I understand where you're taking the thought. It starts to
slide into the "what level of tinkering is acceptable" area, which is where
a professional is needed. Of course, as other pieces of this thread have
explored, there's a level of trust necessary there that takes time to
develop.

In diving and flying and a lot of other things, eh?

With something that can be added on by the manufacturer (a set-up for twin
tanks, an integrated retractor, extension for the waist strap, etc.), it
seems pretty cut-and-dried...right up intil something gets installed wrong.
THEN who's to blame?

Interesting thread (well...most of it). A topic to work into a conversation
with the manufacturers, for sure.
--


Briggs Christie
Oahu Dive Center
Kailua, Hawaii
1-866-933-DIVE
www.oahudivecenter.com
"Kimber" <k@tekdivegirl.com> wrote in message
news:vv0r5biba8dt47@news.supernews.com...
>
> "Oahu Dive Center" <res1iryt@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:BlNHb.2581$f3.1924@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
>
> > Y'know, all flaming aside, it seems that the "don't mess with what the
> > manufacturer made" is a constant theme in lot of things, isn't it? "If
the
> > BCD doesn't fit your body shape exactly, then buy one that does". Isn't
a
> > BCD simply a device that holds air that you can add to or dump out of?
It
> > just has more padding and features than some other options. "Don't dare
to
> > customize your hang gliding harness"...it's a continuos webbing loop
with
> > extra padding and features and some other options. Same thing.
>
> It seems to me that in general the manufacturer has taken the time for R&D
> so that the device works properly under the current configuration.
Changing
> that configuration can make it so the item would possibly no longer always
> function in a proper fashion under stress. Maybe that harness setup for
> hang gliding was made and tested for a 150# person. Altering it so it
fits
> a 220# person may cause it to fail. Just as they make weight
> recommendations on skydiving canopies. If you over load the canopy the
> manufacturer will not be there in any way to support you when you sit in
the
> hospital whining that your lines broke.
>
> > If it doesn't have an affect on your safety (and yes, ANY tinkering on
ANY
> > toys should be done with input from a professional) what's the big deal?
> If
> > a d-ring works great where I don't have one, why not put one there (as
> long
> > as it doesn't compromise the integrity of the bladder)? If I put my
money
> > into the gear, I should feel free to make it do what I want it to (once
> > again, without compromising my safety, etc.).
>
> How do you know it does not compromise safety? Have you done the tests to
> confirm such a thing. Of course then you have the lack of company support
> when said item fails and you are pissy because it did not work properly.
> This is why manufacturers warranties are usually void when the consumer
goes
> altering the item question.
>
> Kimber
>
>

"Kimber" <k@tekdivegirl.com> wrote in message
news:vv0o35hcoqur90@news.supernews.com...
>
> "Tao Of The Dive" <need to know only and you dont need to know> wrote in
> message news:3ff02295_2@127.0.0.1...
>
> > Bu never in my wildest dreams did I dream this would stir up a debate
like
> > this.
>
> Heh! Welcome to rec.scuba.equipment. For even more entertainment you
could
> have posted it at rec.scuba! (-;
>
> Kimber
>
>

Oh, I've lurked here and there for quite a long time, and I have to say,
they are quite maniacal over there...

"Tao Of The Dive" <need to know only and you dont need to know> wrote in
message news:3feb734b_2@127.0.0.1...
> I'm trying to find a BC which wil comfortably fit my 6'2" 335lb frame, 52
> inch chest, you should be getting the idea.
>
> Which Technical BC, (no flashy colors for this guy), would best suit my
> needs?

I'm 6' 300 with a 54" chest and I find the Zeagle Ranger to be very
comfortable and there's plenty of room to grow/shrink pretty much any
direction I need. I use a stock XL, but it allows for exchange of
individuals pieces (ie. cumberbund, straps, lumbar support) as needed to
tailor to your particular size. From your description though, I believe a
Ranger (or, if you're looking for something with lots of bells and whistles,
but still almost entirely black, you might check out the Zeagle 911, SAR, or
Tech PAC BCs). The Zeagle website shows a maximum of 50" waist and 29"
shoulders. Hope that helps.

C Guynn

"Terry Brady" <tbrady@fred.net> wrote in message
news:hMBHb.1$ft2.58894@news.abs.net...
<snip>You'll find it not only fits great but you will look
> good in it too. http://www.dive-rite.com/products/bcd/transpac.htm
>

That's the most important part anyway...

> Tao Of The Dive wrote:
> > I'm trying to find a BC which wil comfortably fit my 6'2" 335lb frame,
52
> > inch chest, you should be getting the idea.
> >
> > Which Technical BC, (no flashy colors for this guy), would best suit my
> > needs?
> >
> >
>
> --
> tbrady@fred.net http://www.brassanchor.com
> List of used & new clearance items at http://www.brassanchor.com/used
>

"Oahu Dive Center" <res1iryt@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:HE_Hb.4435$R_4.3985@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...

> It wouldn't, but I understand where you're taking the thought. It starts
to
> slide into the "what level of tinkering is acceptable" area, which is
where
> a professional is needed. Of course, as other pieces of this thread have
> explored, there's a level of trust necessary there that takes time to
> develop.

*Maybe* it wouldn't. Who is to say without the R&D if it would or not. And
then as you say what level is acceptable? Just saying hey you can alter the
BC any way you desire to fit you may not be the best advice.

> In diving and flying and a lot of other things, eh?

Absolutely. When you are using life saving equipment these things have to
be considered. Be it SCUBA, rock climbing, skydiving or whatever.

> With something that can be added on by the manufacturer (a set-up for twin
> tanks, an integrated retractor, extension for the waist strap, etc.), it
> seems pretty cut-and-dried...right up intil something gets installed
wrong.
> THEN who's to blame?

The person who made the modifications I would say. That is why dive shops
and manufacturers had better have insurance. So when said item with the
modification fails (if done by an authorized dealer with OEM parts) they
have a way to pay the lawsuit. If it is done by the consumer things get
more hazy I suppose but I would personally lay blame to the consumer at this
point. If they cannot make the modifications appropriately and safely --
they should not be doing them. Of course, I personally believe if you buy
the proper gear for the job, that major modifications *should not* be
necessary! (-;

Kimber