Full face masks

For your money, what do you concider the most versatile full face mask?

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In article <3ffd7059_2@127.0.0.1>, "Tao Of The Dive" <need to know only
and you dont need to know> says...
> For your money, what do you concider the most versatile full face mask?

First, there's no reason I can see that anyone but a commercial or PS
diver needs a FFM, but having extensive exposure to and dealings with
those who do need them, the almost unanimous choice is the Interspiro
http://www.interspiro.com/divator.html

Some people who just use a FFM for O2 deco use the Scubapro.

"Al Wells" <fossuldiver@bellsouth.nut> wrote in message
news:015292d5fce2e35a222d197870cf9a54@news.secureu senet.com...
> In article <3ffd7059_2@127.0.0.1>, "Tao Of The Dive" <need to know only
> and you dont need to know> says...
> > For your money, what do you concider the most versatile full face mask?
>
> First, there's no reason I can see that anyone but a commercial or PS
> diver needs a FFM, but having extensive exposure to and dealings with
> those who do need them, the almost unanimous choice is the Interspiro
> http://www.interspiro.com/divator.html
>
> Some people who just use a FFM for O2 deco use the Scubapro.

Well, Im breaking into public safety diving. Which helps me out, since the
police academy sponsors alot of classes that would otherwise cost me alot of
money to get. But Since I'm buying my own gear, I want something thats
versatile and comfortable.

For the rec side of things, I find a full face mask to be slightly more
comfortable, due to being able to breath through my nose. After spending
several years training and fighting fires with SCOTT packs, I'm used to full
face masks, and its a natural easy step for me. I've also found that by
breathing through my nose, I reduce my air consumption.

"Tao Of The Dive" <need to know only and you dont need to know> wrote in
message news:3ffda952$1_2@127.0.0.1...
>
> "Al Wells" <fossuldiver@bellsouth.nut> wrote in message
> news:015292d5fce2e35a222d197870cf9a54@news.secureu senet.com...
> > In article <3ffd7059_2@127.0.0.1>, "Tao Of The Dive" <need to know only
> > and you dont need to know> says...
> > > For your money, what do you concider the most versatile full face
mask?
> >
> > First, there's no reason I can see that anyone but a commercial or PS
> > diver needs a FFM, but having extensive exposure to and dealings with
> > those who do need them, the almost unanimous choice is the Interspiro
> > http://www.interspiro.com/divator.html
> >
> > Some people who just use a FFM for O2 deco use the Scubapro.
>
> Well, Im breaking into public safety diving. Which helps me out, since the
> police academy sponsors alot of classes that would otherwise cost me alot
of
> money to get. But Since I'm buying my own gear, I want something thats
> versatile and comfortable.
>
> For the rec side of things, I find a full face mask to be slightly more
> comfortable, due to being able to breath through my nose. After spending
> several years training and fighting fires with SCOTT packs, I'm used to
full
> face masks, and its a natural easy step for me. I've also found that by
> breathing through my nose, I reduce my air consumption.

The divator is wonderful. (Even with a full beard)
Check out their site and see what firefighters in Europe were wearing well
over 30 years ago.
They never got DOT certified, so NASA and the Navy are the only ones using
them for fighting fire and diving.
I got to make one dive with one in the mid 70's and fell in love. Underwater
they were better than anything I'd used at the time.
But walking around they were *wonderful*. Very easy to put on. The center of
gravity is close to the body and you can get into smaller spaces. The
harness is designed to place the weight on the hips so you lossen the
shoulder straps a bit and it's like taking it off.
4400 Psia and two (or three cylinders ) gave a lot of air.

"Lee Bell" <leebell@ix.remove.netcom.com> wrote in message
newsDmLb.16934$6B.3250@newsread1.news.atl.earthl ink.net...
> "Tao Of The Dive" wrote
>
> > For the rec side of things, I find a full face mask to be slightly more
> > comfortable, due to being able to breath through my nose. After spending
> > several years training and fighting fires with SCOTT packs, I'm used to
> full
> > face masks, and its a natural easy step for me. I've also found that by
> > breathing through my nose, I reduce my air consumption.
>
> That's all well and good, but what are you going to do if you run out of
gas
> and have to share somebody else's?

For sports diving, I'd advise against it unless he dove with the same person
all the time.

But he said he's "breaking into public safety diving." and in that case
would be diving alone, that is,
he'd be in the water alone.

"Mike Painter" wrote

> For sports diving, I'd advise against it unless he dove with the same
person
> all the time.
>
> But he said he's "breaking into public safety diving." and in that case
> would be diving alone, that is,
> he'd be in the water alone.

I'm not sure that a full face mask is best for anything but the most
specialized of diving, most particularly in polluted or exceptionally cold
environments and/or where quality communications are critical. My
experience with public service divers, through my friends on local dive and
ship inspection teams, does not suggest that they are alone most of the
time. To the contrary, they are much more likely to operate in a team than
I ever am. I imagine OSHA has something specific to say on that point as
well. Still, I have no problem coming up with situations where they would
be alone, in reality and effectively.

I would expect to find full face masks on commercial divers who, I think,
are more likely to be alone and are more likely to critically need good
communications, but I'm a bit out of my element on this. I could be very
wrong.

At any rate, even when alone, my alternate, or an independent gas supply,
like a pony, isolated or independent twins and even a Spare Air, provides
some degree of redunancy/backup. A full face mask would seem, to me, to
cause problems even with self help. It simply does not seem to be the right
tool for most jobs.

Lee

On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 09:59:26 -0500, "Tao Of The Dive" <need to know
only and you dont need to know> wrote:

>For your money, what do you concider the most versatile full face mask?


We have tried ffm for wreck diving for years.
They are a liability only.
Doubt my word , do a doff and done in ice cold water.
Then try it at 100 ft, if the ice cream head ach doesn't make your
head explode.
You only have to experience once, me I had to do it twice.
Once as a drill and once because I was out of air.
Both went smoothly, but I wouldn’t do it again. (I sold mine so I
wouldn’t be tempted to use it again)
Also try to find someone who knows how to service it.
We stop trying to integrate them into tech diving about 15 years ago.
The best at the time was the Aga (which was mentioned here by a
different name) D...

I have taught a lot of firefighters to dive.
Skip the ffm thing it will only get you in trouble.
There's a good reason serious divers don't use them.

As for training being a fire fighter you might what a challenge.
And might want to dive with like minded people.

Look into GUE (New)or an old time cold water instructor (very rare).

Then if your going high tech skip all the crap and start looking at
rebreathers cheaper in the end.

Last point ffm's are for in water O2 deco, dirty water, and divers on
the end of a line.
As for communications once you learn hand signals it is a world on to
itself.
I use to dive with a shit load of Poles and French not too many spoke
English, but had no problems understanding hand signs, even a few of
the cusses .
As for talking to topside that's a different matter, as a tech diver
you have every thing with you.
If you dive your plan then you only need a marine radio to call for
pick up.(if need be)

As for air consumption a properly tuned reg will out perform any FFM.
In my case my Poseidon's out preformed the Aga by about 30%.
I had a frog in mine to save air while on the surface.
A frog was a fitting that allowed you to kind of snorkel the FFM on
the surface.
It had an auto close as well as a manual.
With out the frog I got about 50% less time.
In a rough sea the frog was nice it kept the water out, but if it
didn’t you have to do a manual drain.
There are masks out there with auto drains, but they are more toy like
and will not take the abuse an Aga will.


T

"Lee Bell" <leebell@ix.remove.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:DyxLb.83$q4.5@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.ne t...
> "Mike Painter" wrote
>
> > For sports diving, I'd advise against it unless he dove with the same
> person
> > all the time.
> >
> > But he said he's "breaking into public safety diving." and in that case
> > would be diving alone, that is,
> > he'd be in the water alone.
>
> I'm not sure that a full face mask is best for anything but the most
> specialized of diving, most particularly in polluted or exceptionally cold
> environments and/or where quality communications are critical. My
> experience with public service divers, through my friends on local dive
and
> ship inspection teams, does not suggest that they are alone most of the
> time. To the contrary, they are much more likely to operate in a team
than
> I ever am. I imagine OSHA has something specific to say on that point as
> well. Still, I have no problem coming up with situations where they would
> be alone, in reality and effectively.
You have described a lot of what public safty divers do and the choice of a
full mask is a wise one.
Most S&R dive teams are taught by sports SCUBA instructors and reflect the
use of dive teams.
Public safty diving is an entirely different mindset and is gradually
replacing this system.
It is not done for for fun and it is not a sport. If you do your job you do
not have time to watch out for your buddy, even if you can see him.
You work on a line, with communications if you can afford it and your safty
diver has a full tank of air and is warm and toasty on the surface.
It is *the* way professional public safty divers work today.
In the early 70's the dive industry did a lot and kept OSHA at bay. A basic
class would probably cost over $500.00 today had we not done that and peeing
in your wet suit wouold probably and litterally be agaainst the law. (OSHA
would not let sea water from an abalone farm in Monteray to be pumped back
into the ocean because it contained abalone shit.)
>
<Snip>

> At any rate, even when alone, my alternate, or an independent gas supply,
> like a pony, isolated or independent twins and even a Spare Air, provides
> some degree of redunancy/backup. A full face mask would seem, to me, to
> cause problems even with self help. It simply does not seem to be the
right
> tool for most jobs.
For the average diver even if the problems you describe didn't exist the
expense alone does not justify them. Buy a mask and regulator and spent the
difference on a dry suit.

(But they do solve the mask fogging problem.)

"Lee Bell" <leebell@ix.remove.netcom.com> wrote in message
newsDmLb.16934$6B.3250@newsread1.news.atl.earthl ink.net...
> "Tao Of The Dive" wrote
>
> > For the rec side of things, I find a full face mask to be slightly more
> > comfortable, due to being able to breath through my nose. After spending
> > several years training and fighting fires with SCOTT packs, I'm used to
> full
> > face masks, and its a natural easy step for me. I've also found that by
> > breathing through my nose, I reduce my air consumption.
>
> That's all well and good, but what are you going to do if you run out of
gas
> and have to share somebody else's?
>
> Lee
>
>

Bail out, insert octo, and retrieve backup mask from pocket. Next question.

"Tao Of The Dive" wrote

> > That's all well and good, but what are you going to do if you run out of
> > gas and have to share somebody else's?

> Bail out, insert octo, and retrieve backup mask from pocket. Next
question.

What pocket?