Online Purchases

Hi Everyone,
I am new to scuba (currently taking lessons). I have heard that many
manufactures do not allow online sales of their products, yet I see
them on Ebay and many other online dealers. Can someone please clarify
online sales for me.
Thanks,
Dan

In article <ca732433.0402050920.3a67bac3@posting.google.com >,
dbradley@lifespan.org (Dan Bradley) writes:
>I am new to scuba (currently taking lessons). I have heard that many
>manufactures do not allow online sales of their products, yet I see
>them on Ebay and many other online dealers. Can someone please clarify
>online sales for me.

Manufacturers cannot prevent online sales of their products.
They can refuse to sell to dealers who sell online, and they
can refuse to honor warranties on products sold online.

Several manufacturers do this.
I recommend that you do not buy their products.

It has been claimed that these practices -- which often include
de facto price fixing -- are not legal in the USA. However,
thus far nobody has challenged this in a court action. Because
SCUBA is a small market, the actual amount of money involved may
be too small to justify the cost of court action.

If you do buy online, be aware that you may have to depend on the
seller, not the manufacturuer, for warranty coverage, and, in some
extreme conditions, even for normal maintenance. Because of this,
it is very important that you learn enough about the seller to
believe that they will provide these services. Realize that this
will require shippng the item back to the seller, which may incrase
the time and cost of service.

All of this is very important for regulators, which require regular
maintenance that may or may not be covered under waranty. It is
much less important for items such as fins, masks, BCs, etc., which
commonly don't require the same level of maintenance service.

I am fortunate to live, and to have lived, in areas where there are
competitive local dive shops. Thus, for me, the savings to be had
by online purchasse have generally not been worth the bother. Things
that I have purchased online tend to be things that I haven't found
locally.

Before you buy online, talk to your local dive shop and give them a
chance to match (or come close to) the online prices. You may be
pleasantly surprised. But be warned: Some local shops seem to think
that they should be protected at all costs. If they learn that you
are buying online, they may refuse to deal with you at all. In this
case, find another local shop -- ANY busines that flatly refused to
compete probably will not be around in the long term.

Another problem with online purchases is that it makes it very
difficult to try an item before buying it. "Try before you buy"
is recognized as a very good idea for most of the items in your
SCUBA kit.

--
Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale FL USA
(hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)
All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.

It's true that some companies do not allow their stuff to be sold online,
but there are many who do and their stuff is available at great prices
online. Try liesurepro.com, scubatoys.com,diverswholesale .com, etc. P.


"Dan Bradley" <dbradley@lifespan.org> wrote in message
news:ca732433.0402050920.3a67bac3@posting.google.c om...
> Hi Everyone,
> I am new to scuba (currently taking lessons). I have heard that many
> manufactures do not allow online sales of their products, yet I see
> them on Ebay and many other online dealers. Can someone please clarify
> online sales for me.
> Thanks,
> Dan

Dan Bradley wrote:

> Hi Everyone,
> I am new to scuba (currently taking lessons). I have heard that many
> manufactures do not allow online sales of their products, yet I see
> them on Ebay and many other online dealers. Can someone please clarify
> online sales for me.
> Thanks,
> Dan

If you just consider Ebay as the worlds largest garage sale,
you will do just fine. If you buy from there, don't expect
any type of warranty other than what the seller posts in his
auction listing. It is possible to find some really good
deals! But you can also get stuck with some real crap as
well!

You need to develop some kind of a relationship with your
local dive shops so you can get service and air. So, it is
in your best interest to get familiar with what you can get
locally and then make up your own mind where you are going
to spend your money.

But remember to be as fair with the shop as they are with
you. If they are working hard to educate you on the plusses
and minuses of a particular scuba product and you are sold
on it, don't run out and buy from Ebay. give the store an
opportunity to deal with you on the item.

However, if your shop is like some out there ... no
inventory and it takes 6-8 weeks to get something special
ordered, then you will get better service from a magazine ad!

Just my $.02

--

Ray Contreras
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Webmonkey for:
http://www.ossystems.com
http://www.bobs-garage.com
http://www.rayzplace.com

dbradley@lifespan.org (Dan Bradley) wrote:

>Hi Everyone,
>I am new to scuba (currently taking lessons). I have heard that many
>manufactures do not allow online sales of their products, yet I see
>them on Ebay and many other online dealers. Can someone please clarify
>online sales for me.

Basically the manufacturers that prohibit online sales will refuse to
honor warranties for items purchased online. Consider the items to be
grey market. For some things like fins it's no big deal, for other
things like regulators it might be. For example Scubapro provides free
parts for regulators for life, as long as you have it serviced
annually. If you buy it online they don't. It's a judgment call as to
what's important to you.

I purchased most of my larger items at a local dive shop, and got a
pretty good deal, within 10% or so of what I found online. In return I
get the warranty and other services that they provide and I know where
to find them if there's a problem, something that may be difficult
with an online purchase especially on Ebay. On the other hand I got my
wetsuits online and they work fine.

The dive shop knows that I buy some stuff online and they don't have a
problem with that. It's nice to have a good relationship with people
that can answer questions, provide support and provide off book perks
like discounts, freebies etc. To me it was worth the price difference.
If they had held firm on their list price I probably would have gone
elsewhere since it would have been way higher than online.

If you do go through a local dive shop check with your local Secretary
of State and see how long they have been around. The one I use has
been around over 20 years so it's likely that they won't be going
anywhere soon.

On Thu, 05 Feb 2004 17:23:34 -0600, Jim Manson <Jim@Manson.com> wrote:

>dbradley@lifespan.org (Dan Bradley) wrote:
>
>>Hi Everyone,
>>I am new to scuba (currently taking lessons). I have heard that many
>>manufactures do not allow online sales of their products, yet I see
>>them on Ebay and many other online dealers. Can someone please clarify
>>online sales for me.
>
>Basically the manufacturers that prohibit online sales will refuse to
>honor warranties for items purchased online. Consider the items to be
>grey market. For some things like fins it's no big deal, for other
>things like regulators it might be. For example Scubapro provides free
>parts for regulators for life, as long as you have it serviced
>annually. If you buy it online they don't. It's a judgment call as to
>what's important to you.
>
Although, many online stores also have a local presence, and are
dealers for respective manufacturers. If one were to send it to them
for service, say in winter, all is well and warrenties are in effect.
I don't know of one online store that has no storefront as well. ( I
may be mistaken, but I don't know of one )

Laser

Dan;

If you have no idea what you need or how to purchase gear, find an LDS and
make friends. The next thing to do is
check his prices. If they are MSRP or higher, he's not your friend and tell
him that. Look for package deals and again check
the MSRP on each item. It's not your responsibility to keep his shop in
business. It's his responsibility to be a good business
man.

Example: My wife and I were certified in Ohio and after the first lesson I
asked for a price quote on a two sets of gear that would
satisfy a sport diver interested in having fun. The sales person prepared a
price quote on: masks, fins, snorkels, regulators,
buoyancy compensator, etc. She handed me a bill of goods that totaled $4000.
I said thanks and would be back after checking it
out. I went home and got on the internet and checked the features and form
of each item. The gear was top notch...but the prices were
MSRP or above. I called the LDS back and asked if we could work on the
bottom line of the quote. She said, "I gave you a 10% student discount and I
was assured that was the best price that could be provided. I thanked her
and hung up. I got on the net and pointed my browser to
LeisurePro . I purchased the exact same list for $2000.

Your assignment is to study and learn about the equipment you will be using
and remember the three "Fs" FORM FIT AND FUNCTION.
And finally, don't be intimidated by your LDS.


"Dan Bradley" <dbradley@lifespan.org> wrote in message
news:ca732433.0402050920.3a67bac3@posting.google.c om...
> Hi Everyone,
> I am new to scuba (currently taking lessons). I have heard that many
> manufactures do not allow online sales of their products, yet I see
> them on Ebay and many other online dealers. Can someone please clarify
> online sales for me.
> Thanks,
> Dan

"Dan Bradley" <dbradley@lifespan.org> wrote in message
news:ca732433.0402050920.3a67bac3@posting.google.c om...
> Hi Everyone,
> I am new to scuba (currently taking lessons). I have heard that many
> manufactures do not allow online sales of their products, yet I see
> them on Ebay and many other online dealers. Can someone please clarify
> online sales for me.
> Thanks,
> Dan

I believe it's part of scuba business, but they pretend it's a safety issue. The
manufacturers support scuba shops, that train new divers, who buy their gear. They do not
want scuba shops to go out of business with net loss of scuba industry.

Adam