Purge valves in masks

I have been using a Sea Vision mask with purge valve for about 4 years with
around 250 dives on it. It has been almost trouble free. On two occasions I
have had the silicon purge valve blow out. Once upon entry, the other time
on a tech dive @ 150 feet. Somewhat inconvenient to say the least, but not
to much trouble. Although it made for a blurry deco hang.


"ben bradlee" <up2u2figr@NoWay.zip> wrote in message
news:39WdnUqmhqyvTJrcRVn-ig@centurytel.net...
>
> "nobody" <anyone@home.net> wrote in message
> news:eZPNc.7986$09.1041070@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net ...
> > I haven't notice this topic covered, so apologies if I am rehashing an
> > old subject.
> >
> > Three years ago, when my daughter got her OWC, we selected a mask with a
> > purge. While she learned to clear in her class, it has never been
> > necessary on any dives. The mask works very well. So well, in fact, that
> > I opted to buy one for myself when I replaced my old mask last year.
> > Boy, is it great. I've used masks to snorkel and dive for over thirty
> > years. All of them leak at some time or another, whether due to poor
> > fit, hair not removed from the skirt, whatever. My new mask, with purge,
> > stays bone dry all the time. This also seems to keep the fog down,
> > although I'm not sure that it is a cause/effect relationship.
> >
> > Some might think that it is one more item that is unnecessary and it
> > adds another potential failure point, but the purge is a pretty simple
> > little device, and as long as it is kept clean, it should do its job
> > reliably. For my money, I'll probably always use a purge mask from now
> > on. But I haven't noticed too many other divers using them. Why not? Am
> > I missing something (besides the need to clear)?
> >
> > Bart F.
>
> I've used one for years and noticed only two problems: The first is, as
you
> mention, that something can get caught between the diaphragm and plastic
and
> cause a leak. This may have happened once or twice. The second problem
is
> that when the mask dries the diaphragm sticks shut. You need to exhale
with
> some force to dislodge the silicon diaphragm from the plastic. After
using
> this type of mask I had to force myself to clear using traditional
> procedures in advance training.
>
> It is easier to grab your nose with a traditional mask but I don't
consider
> this a problem. No statistics on number or percentage used but I suspect
> it's a large number.
>
>

Thanks Jim,

If you can, please define "blow out"; ie. Did the entire subassembly
disengage from the skirt, or just the diaphram itself? This leads me to
wonder if it is possible to repair during a dive, if a replacement
diaphram was kept tucked in a BC pocket.

(Gee, blow outs, skirts, diaphrams ... who knew scuba was so erotic!?)

Bart F.

Jim wrote:
> I have been using a Sea Vision mask with purge valve for about 4 years with
> around 250 dives on it. It has been almost trouble free. On two occasions I
> have had the silicon purge valve blow out. Once upon entry, the other time
> on a tech dive @ 150 feet. Somewhat inconvenient to say the least, but not
> to much trouble. Although it made for a blurry deco hang.
>
>
> "ben bradlee" <up2u2figr@NoWay.zip> wrote in message
> news:39WdnUqmhqyvTJrcRVn-ig@centurytel.net...
>
>>"nobody" <anyone@home.net> wrote in message
>>news:eZPNc.7986$09.1041070@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et...
>>
>>>I haven't notice this topic covered, so apologies if I am rehashing an
>>>old subject.
>>>
>>>Three years ago, when my daughter got her OWC, we selected a mask with a
>>>purge. While she learned to clear in her class, it has never been
>>>necessary on any dives. The mask works very well. So well, in fact, that
>>>I opted to buy one for myself when I replaced my old mask last year.
>>>Boy, is it great. I've used masks to snorkel and dive for over thirty
>>>years. All of them leak at some time or another, whether due to poor
>>>fit, hair not removed from the skirt, whatever. My new mask, with purge,
>>>stays bone dry all the time. This also seems to keep the fog down,
>>>although I'm not sure that it is a cause/effect relationship.
>>>
>>>Some might think that it is one more item that is unnecessary and it
>>>adds another potential failure point, but the purge is a pretty simple
>>>little device, and as long as it is kept clean, it should do its job
>>>reliably. For my money, I'll probably always use a purge mask from now
>>>on. But I haven't noticed too many other divers using them. Why not? Am
>>>I missing something (besides the need to clear)?
>>>
>>>Bart F.
>>
>>I've used one for years and noticed only two problems: The first is, as
>
> you
>
>>mention, that something can get caught between the diaphragm and plastic
>
> and
>
>>cause a leak. This may have happened once or twice. The second problem
>
> is
>
>>that when the mask dries the diaphragm sticks shut. You need to exhale
>
> with
>
>>some force to dislodge the silicon diaphragm from the plastic. After
>
> using
>
>>this type of mask I had to force myself to clear using traditional
>>procedures in advance training.
>>
>>It is easier to grab your nose with a traditional mask but I don't
>
> consider
>
>>this a problem. No statistics on number or percentage used but I suspect
>>it's a large number.
>>
>>
>
>
>

nobody wrote:
> I haven't notice this topic covered, so apologies if I am rehashing an
> old subject.
>
> Three years ago, when my daughter got her OWC, we selected a mask
> with a purge. While she learned to clear in her class, it has never
> been necessary on any dives. The mask works very well. So well, in
> fact, that I opted to buy one for myself when I replaced my old mask
> last year. Boy, is it great. I've used masks to snorkel and dive for
> over thirty years. All of them leak at some time or another, whether
> due to poor fit, hair not removed from the skirt, whatever. My new
> mask, with purge, stays bone dry all the time. This also seems to
> keep the fog down, although I'm not sure that it is a cause/effect
> relationship.

Now you must seal the purge to find out if the mask leaks or is just a good
fit.
Most of my masks (that I kept for more than a dive or two) only leaked when
I bumped something, got kicked or laughed.


>
> Some might think that it is one more item that is unnecessary and it
> adds another potential failure point, but the purge is a pretty simple
> little device, and as long as it is kept clean, it should do its job
> reliably. For my money, I'll probably always use a purge mask from now
> on. But I haven't noticed too many other divers using them. Why not?
> Am I missing something (besides the need to clear)?
>

I've always reccomended them for people using contacts but advised against
them in general.

My main argument is that you can only be in one position to clear them.
Without the purge you just lightly hold the high side and the water flows
out the low side.
If you're upside down with your head under a ledge or swimming on your side
inspecting something you don't have to stop and assume the position to clear
them.

The valve diaphragm which is made of clear silicon blew out. Since it is
clear, soft and rather small, it would be rather difficult to see and handle
underwater. On subsequent tech dives, I've carried a spare mask.
"nobody" <anyone@home.net> wrote in message
news:KvVNc.15209$09.2024583@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.ne t...
> Thanks Jim,
>
> If you can, please define "blow out"; ie. Did the entire subassembly
> disengage from the skirt, or just the diaphram itself? This leads me to
> wonder if it is possible to repair during a dive, if a replacement
> diaphram was kept tucked in a BC pocket.
>
> (Gee, blow outs, skirts, diaphrams ... who knew scuba was so erotic!?)
>
> Bart F.
>
> Jim wrote:
> > I have been using a Sea Vision mask with purge valve for about 4 years
with
> > around 250 dives on it. It has been almost trouble free. On two
occasions I
> > have had the silicon purge valve blow out. Once upon entry, the other
time
> > on a tech dive @ 150 feet. Somewhat inconvenient to say the least, but
not
> > to much trouble. Although it made for a blurry deco hang.
> >
> >
> > "ben bradlee" <up2u2figr@NoWay.zip> wrote in message
> > news:39WdnUqmhqyvTJrcRVn-ig@centurytel.net...
> >
> >>"nobody" <anyone@home.net> wrote in message
> >>news:eZPNc.7986$09.1041070@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et...
> >>
> >>>I haven't notice this topic covered, so apologies if I am rehashing an
> >>>old subject.
> >>>
> >>>Three years ago, when my daughter got her OWC, we selected a mask with
a
> >>>purge. While she learned to clear in her class, it has never been
> >>>necessary on any dives. The mask works very well. So well, in fact,
that
> >>>I opted to buy one for myself when I replaced my old mask last year.
> >>>Boy, is it great. I've used masks to snorkel and dive for over thirty
> >>>years. All of them leak at some time or another, whether due to poor
> >>>fit, hair not removed from the skirt, whatever. My new mask, with
purge,
> >>>stays bone dry all the time. This also seems to keep the fog down,
> >>>although I'm not sure that it is a cause/effect relationship.
> >>>
> >>>Some might think that it is one more item that is unnecessary and it
> >>>adds another potential failure point, but the purge is a pretty simple
> >>>little device, and as long as it is kept clean, it should do its job
> >>>reliably. For my money, I'll probably always use a purge mask from now
> >>>on. But I haven't noticed too many other divers using them. Why not? Am
> >>>I missing something (besides the need to clear)?
> >>>
> >>>Bart F.
> >>
> >>I've used one for years and noticed only two problems: The first is, as
> >
> > you
> >
> >>mention, that something can get caught between the diaphragm and plastic
> >
> > and
> >
> >>cause a leak. This may have happened once or twice. The second problem
> >
> > is
> >
> >>that when the mask dries the diaphragm sticks shut. You need to exhale
> >
> > with
> >
> >>some force to dislodge the silicon diaphragm from the plastic. After
> >
> > using
> >
> >>this type of mask I had to force myself to clear using traditional
> >>procedures in advance training.
> >>
> >>It is easier to grab your nose with a traditional mask but I don't
> >
> > consider
> >
> >>this a problem. No statistics on number or percentage used but I
suspect
> >>it's a large number.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>

"nobody" <anyone@home.net> wrote in message
news:eZPNc.7986$09.1041070@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net ...
> I haven't notice this topic covered, so apologies if I am rehashing an
> old subject.

I use an OceanMaster Z2 with a purge valve and never had a problem with it. In fact I
just bought one for my friend.

Adam

"nobody" <anyone@home.net> wrote in message
news:eZPNc.7986$09.1041070@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net ...
> I haven't notice this topic covered, so apologies if I am rehashing an
> old subject.
>
> Three years ago, when my daughter got her OWC, we selected a mask with a
> purge. While she learned to clear in her class, it has never been
> necessary on any dives. The mask works very well. So well, in fact, that
> I opted to buy one for myself when I replaced my old mask last year.
> Boy, is it great. I've used masks to snorkel and dive for over thirty
> years. All of them leak at some time or another, whether due to poor
> fit, hair not removed from the skirt, whatever. My new mask, with purge,
> stays bone dry all the time. This also seems to keep the fog down,
> although I'm not sure that it is a cause/effect relationship.
>
> Some might think that it is one more item that is unnecessary and it
> adds another potential failure point, but the purge is a pretty simple
> little device, and as long as it is kept clean, it should do its job
> reliably. For my money, I'll probably always use a purge mask from now
> on. But I haven't noticed too many other divers using them. Why not? Am
> I missing something (besides the need to clear)?

One of the more important things you missed is that a purge valave is not
essenetial, or even important to those with the experience that allows the
mask to be cleared as easily without one as with one.

Purge valves in the soft material of the mask, around the nose, represent a
hard material in a soft material, that stresses the soft material every
time you pinch your nose to equalize. This type leads to premature
failure of the soft material. Valves located in the lens itself, do not
share this problem.

As you note, purge valves, at least modern ones are reliable is kept clean.
The original ones weren't made of such durable material and often failed
before the rest of the mask. You do, however, have to keep them clean.

Finally, and this is more important than most will admit, having a purge
valve is one of several factors that tends to identify its owner, to the
most experienced divers, as a relative novice. This sounds like vanity, but
it tends to be more important that that. Those not accepted as experienced,
tend not to be invited to do more interesting dives.

Lee

"Lee Bell" <leebell@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3SLQc.2301$nx2.337@newsread2.news.atl.earthli nk.net...

> Finally, and this is more important than most will admit, having a purge
> valve is one of several factors that tends to identify its owner, to the
> most experienced divers, as a relative novice. This sounds like vanity,
but
> it tends to be more important that that. Those not accepted as
experienced,
> tend not to be invited to do more interesting dives.
>
> Lee

"Virginia" climbed the ladder of the dive boat. Her breasts kept her from
getting close to rungs with her upper torso and her head was cocked back
extending the curve in her body. As she mounted the steps the low cut
bikini top heaved from side to side like pendulums attached to bright orange
straps. Her slim figure reached the dive platform where she stood erect -
the weight of the tank appearing to be counterbalanced with her anatomy.

Lee, ever the gentleman, approached Virginia to get a better look. "I see
you have a purge valve," says Lee.
"Yes, so?"
"That indicates you are a relative novice."
"Oh!"
"The experienced divers and I are going for an interesting dive at the next
site. Sorry, but I can't invite you because you have a purge valve in your
mask."
"Really?"
Lee is firm now, "That's correct. If you had a mask without a purge valve
we could do the interesting dive together."
Virginia, still somewhat surprised, now sarcastic, says "Bummer! But, I'm
sure it's not the end of the world."
Lee, realizing that something is amiss, looks down and says, "But you do
have a couple of things going for you. I like those Mares fins."

In article <Q-Sdnb-fyaP-B47cRVn-gw@centurytel.net>, ben bradlee
<up2u2figr@NoWay.zip> wrote:

> "Lee Bell" <leebell@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:3SLQc.2301$nx2.337@newsread2.news.atl.earthli nk.net...
>
> > Finally, and this is more important than most will admit, having a purge
> > valve is one of several factors that tends to identify its owner, to the
> > most experienced divers, as a relative novice. This sounds like vanity,
> but
> > it tends to be more important that that. Those not accepted as
> experienced,
> > tend not to be invited to do more interesting dives.
> >
> > Lee
>
> "Virginia" climbed the ladder of the dive boat. Her breasts kept her from
> getting close to rungs with her upper torso and her head was cocked back
> extending the curve in her body. As she mounted the steps the low cut
> bikini top heaved from side to side like pendulums attached to bright orange
> straps. Her slim figure reached the dive platform where she stood erect -
> the weight of the tank appearing to be counterbalanced with her anatomy.
>
> Lee, ever the gentleman, approached Virginia to get a better look. "I see
> you have a purge valve," says Lee.
> "Yes, so?"
> "That indicates you are a relative novice."
> "Oh!"
> "The experienced divers and I are going for an interesting dive at the next
> site. Sorry, but I can't invite you because you have a purge valve in your
> mask."
> "Really?"
> Lee is firm now, "That's correct. If you had a mask without a purge valve
> we could do the interesting dive together."
> Virginia, still somewhat surprised, now sarcastic, says "Bummer! But, I'm
> sure it's not the end of the world."
> Lee, realizing that something is amiss, looks down and says, "But you do
> have a couple of things going for you. I like those Mares fins."
>
>
>

I see you're still getting rejection letters from Harlequin Romance.

On Fri, 6 Aug 2004 09:47:42 -0500, "ben bradlee" <up2u2figr@NoWay.zip>
wrote:

>
>"Lee Bell" <leebell@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>news:3SLQc.2301$nx2.337@newsread2.news.atl.earthl ink.net...
>
>> Finally, and this is more important than most will admit, having a purge
>> valve is one of several factors that tends to identify its owner, to the
>> most experienced divers, as a relative novice. This sounds like vanity,
>but
>> it tends to be more important that that. Those not accepted as
>experienced,
>> tend not to be invited to do more interesting dives.
>>
>> Lee
>
>"Virginia" climbed the ladder of the dive boat. Her breasts kept her from
>getting close to rungs with her upper torso and her head was cocked back
>extending the curve in her body. As she mounted the steps the low cut
>bikini top heaved from side to side like pendulums attached to bright orange
>straps. Her slim figure reached the dive platform where she stood erect -
>the weight of the tank appearing to be counterbalanced with her anatomy.
>
>Lee, ever the gentleman, approached Virginia to get a better look. "I see
>you have a purge valve," says Lee.
>"Yes, so?"
>"That indicates you are a relative novice."
>"Oh!"
>"The experienced divers and I are going for an interesting dive at the next
>site. Sorry, but I can't invite you because you have a purge valve in your
>mask."
>"Really?"
>Lee is firm now, "That's correct. If you had a mask without a purge valve
>we could do the interesting dive together."
>Virginia, still somewhat surprised, now sarcastic, says "Bummer! But, I'm
>sure it's not the end of the world."
>Lee, realizing that something is amiss, looks down and says, "But you do
>have a couple of things going for you. I like those Mares fins."
>
>

ROFLMAO! Nicely done!

In article <0KOQc.2448$nx2.2416@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink. net>,
Bill T <williet10001@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>> Finally, and this is more important than most will admit, having a purge
>> valve is one of several factors that tends to identify its owner, to the
>> most experienced divers, as a relative novice. This sounds like vanity,
>but
>> it tends to be more important that that. Those not accepted as
>experienced,
>> tend not to be invited to do more interesting dives.
>>
>> Lee
>>
>>
>That is the dumbest thing I have ever read on this newsgroup!!!!
>I've been diving over 20 years with well over 1000 dives, and I love my
>purge valve mask!
>Bill

I don't see why a purge valve in a mask is of value.

I've never had an issue with simply exhaling through my nose to clear the
mask, with the water exiting through the lowest point (which just happens to
be down near the nose pocket and bottom of the lenses on most masks)

If someone wants one, ok by me. I just don't understand what use they have
in actual practice, since in my experience masks with and without them
behave in exactly the same way when you need to clear them.

--
--
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http://www.denninger.net My home on the net
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