Dacor not honoring regulator warranty?

Lee,
I'm not a lawyer, so help me with this. Someone sells me equipment with
a guarantee. They then sell the company to someone else and can break
their contract with me? And trial lawyers have a bad name.
Y

Lee Bell wrote:

> "John" wrote
>
>
>>Not going to work, as others have mentioned, the DACOR that sold and
>>warranted that regulator no longer exists, and the NEW DACOR has NO
>>legal obligation to honor any warrantees on products made/sold by the
>>original DACOR corporate entity
>
>
> That all depends on the transition from the old to the new Dacor, what was
> sold and purchased in the transition and what rights and responsibilities
> follow. Also, it may provide recourse back to the owners of the original
> Dacor . . . or not.
>
> Lee
>
>

Which reminds me about the joke about the all you can eat restaurant
that tells you when have have eaten all you can.....



Alan Street wrote:

> In article <410D8023.A7CFD9A6@acm.org>, Pete Becker
> <petebecker@acm.org> wrote:
>
>
>>Alan Street wrote:
>>
>>>Actually, Dacor is a brand.
>>>
>>>How much liability the present brand owners (Head or Mares, someone
>>>help me out here, please) have depends on the terms and conditions of
>>>the sale.
>>>
>>
>>It also depends on what the warranty says.
>
>
> Actually, no.
>
> If a warranty is issued by a company that no longer exists, what it
> says is irrelevant. The fact that the consumer *thinks* the present
> brand owners are liable doesn't matter at all.
>
> This is the main reason that "lifetime warrantys" are illegal in
> Germany. Since there's no way to insure that a company will stay in
> business for the "lifetime" of the user, they're considered a
> meaningless advertising gimmick (as our Dacor purchaser is
> unfortunately finding out).
>
> alan

On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 21:50:32 -0400, DrYak <DrYak@nospam.com> wrote:

>Lee,
>I'm not a lawyer, so help me with this. Someone sells me equipment with
>a guarantee. They then sell the company to someone else and can break
>their contract with me? And trial lawyers have a bad name.
>Y
>

Yep. There is no "law" forcing a vendor to support a product
indefinitely. A Lifetime Warranty, is also contingent on the
"Lifetime" of the corporate entity that sold the product. If the
corporate entity no longer exists, the life is over. All they really
needed to do was dissolve the corporation. The brand may still exist
but the obligations of the corporation are discharged. Sometimes the
obligations of the selling company will be transferred to the buying
company as a condition of the sale, but this is always negotiable and
will certainly have a negative impact on the purchase price. So if the
sellers want maximum cash-out, they will not pass the obligations
along to the buyer. The buyer might support the warranties as a good
customer relations policy, but this is a marketing decision. Debt is
the only "sticky" obligation... but even that can be eliminated.

Check it out:

Company can't make it as an ongoing concern.
Company announces possibility of going chapter 11.
Company forms subsidiary corporations without the debts.
Company goes chapter 11.
Company spins off subs, hiring the old board and management.
Company declares bankruptcy, discharging all debt for pennies on the
dollar.
Company folds, liquidates, lays off.. all nice an' neat.
Company management continues doing business under new name with mostly
same old management now out of debt, shareholders and employees
screwed.

Don't believe me?

See UAL -> United Airlines -> Ted
Watch what happens this year.

Geoff wrote:
> On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 21:50:32 -0400, DrYak <DrYak@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Lee,
>>I'm not a lawyer, so help me with this. Someone sells me equipment with
>>a guarantee. They then sell the company to someone else and can break
>>their contract with me? And trial lawyers have a bad name.
>>Y
>>
>
>
> Yep. There is no "law" forcing a vendor to support a product
> indefinitely. A Lifetime Warranty, is also contingent on the
> "Lifetime" of the corporate entity that sold the product. If the
> corporate entity no longer exists, the life is over. All they really
> needed to do was dissolve the corporation. The brand may still exist
> but the obligations of the corporation are discharged. Sometimes the
> obligations of the selling company will be transferred to the buying
> company as a condition of the sale, but this is always negotiable and
> will certainly have a negative impact on the purchase price. So if the
> sellers want maximum cash-out, they will not pass the obligations
> along to the buyer. The buyer might support the warranties as a good
> customer relations policy, but this is a marketing decision. Debt is
> the only "sticky" obligation... but even that can be eliminated.
>
> Check it out:
>
> Company can't make it as an ongoing concern.

Company outsources back office responsibilities

> Company announces possibility of going chapter 11.
> Company forms subsidiary corporations without the debts.
> Company goes chapter 11.
> Company spins off subs, hiring the old board and management.
> Company declares bankruptcy, discharging all debt for pennies on the
> dollar.
> Company folds, liquidates, lays off.. all nice an' neat.
> Company management continues doing business under new name with mostly
> same old management now out of debt, shareholders and employees
> screwed.
>
> Don't believe me?
>
> See UAL -> United Airlines -> Ted
> Watch what happens this year.


One slight change to the new American dream...

--
jer email reply - I am not a 'ten'
"All that we do is touched with ocean, yet we remain on the shore of
what we know." -- Richard Wilbur

DrYak wrote:
>
> Lee,
> I'm not a lawyer, so help me with this. Someone sells me equipment with
> a guarantee. They then sell the company to someone else and can break
> their contract with me?

No. First, a "lifetime guarantee" is usually for the lifetime of the
product, not of the purchaser. But let's assume it's your lifetime.
There are a bunch of ways of selling a business (assume it's a
corporation). The owners can sell its stock -- in that case all its
assets and obligations continue, and the new owner is responsible for
warranty support. Or the owners can sell the business's assets -- the
old owners are still responsible for ongoing obligations (like warranty
support for products sold before the business was sold). Good luck
collecting from them, though -- they don't have much incentive to help
you, since they're no longer in the business.

--

Pete Becker
Dinkumware, Ltd. (http://www.dinkumware.com)

"Reid Wood" <reid.wood@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:DZadnZh69890mJbcRVn-rg@adelphia.com...
> I have a Dacor regulator and octopus that I have had for 15 years. I have
> faithfully had the product serviced annually in order to keep the lifetime
> parts warranty valid. Dacor is now saying that they do not support my
> equipment any longer and suggest that I update to their newer technologies.
>
> It seems wrong that a scuba manufacturer would offer a lifetime warranty and
> then discontinue parts so that the user would have to upgrade to newer
> equipment.
>
> I would like to know if anyone else has had this same problem with Dacor?

I wonder if you could take Dacor to small claims court? If you could do this in your
locality I bet you could get something out of it.

Adam

But if they have an obligation to me, can the abrogate it, modify it,
and sell it to someone else without notifying me?

Pete Becker wrote:
> DrYak wrote:
>
>>Lee,
>>I'm not a lawyer, so help me with this. Someone sells me equipment with
>>a guarantee. They then sell the company to someone else and can break
>>their contract with me?
>
>
> No. First, a "lifetime guarantee" is usually for the lifetime of the
> product, not of the purchaser. But let's assume it's your lifetime.
> There are a bunch of ways of selling a business (assume it's a
> corporation). The owners can sell its stock -- in that case all its
> assets and obligations continue, and the new owner is responsible for
> warranty support. Or the owners can sell the business's assets -- the
> old owners are still responsible for ongoing obligations (like warranty
> support for products sold before the business was sold). Good luck
> collecting from them, though -- they don't have much incentive to help
> you, since they're no longer in the business.
>

DrYak wrote:
>
> But if they have an obligation to me, can the abrogate it, modify it,
> and sell it to someone else without notifying me?
>

No, they can't abrogate it. Reread what I said.

But putting aside the loaded terms, the answer is yes: the owner of a
business can sell it to someone else, without transferring
responsibility for past customers. It's called a bulk sale, and there
are restrictions on how it's done and what's done. But remember, they
probably don't have current contact information for all of their
customers. How can they notify them?

--

Pete Becker
Dinkumware, Ltd. (http://www.dinkumware.com)

"Reid Wood" <reid.wood@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:DZadnZh69890mJbcRVn-rg@adelphia.com...
> I have a Dacor regulator and octopus that I have had for 15 years. I
have
> faithfully had the product serviced annually in order to keep the lifetime
> parts warranty valid. Dacor is now saying that they do not support my
> equipment any longer and suggest that I update to their newer
technologies.
>
> It seems wrong that a scuba manufacturer would offer a lifetime warranty
and
> then discontinue parts so that the user would have to upgrade to newer
> equipment.
>
> I would like to know if anyone else has had this same problem with Dacor?

Do yourself a favor, shitcan it and buy an Apeks DS4.

Obviously Dacor believe that 15 years is a sufficient lifespan for one of
their regulators.

If that's the case and it then fails on a dive, even after a service, then
you (or your relatives) would have no legal recourse to Dacor!


"Reid Wood" <reid.wood@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:DZadnZh69890mJbcRVn-rg@adelphia.com...
> I have a Dacor regulator and octopus that I have had for 15 years. I
have
> faithfully had the product serviced annually in order to keep the lifetime
> parts warranty valid. Dacor is now saying that they do not support my
> equipment any longer and suggest that I update to their newer
technologies.
>
> It seems wrong that a scuba manufacturer would offer a lifetime warranty
and
> then discontinue parts so that the user would have to upgrade to newer
> equipment.
>
> I would like to know if anyone else has had this same problem with Dacor?
>
>
>