Dacor not honoring regulator warranty?

In article <p3aPc.3167$z13.819@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>, Mike
Painter <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> John wrote:
> > Not going to work, as others have mentioned, the DACOR that sold and
> > warranted that regulator no longer exists, and the NEW DACOR has NO
> > legal obligation to honor any warrantees on products made/sold by the
> > original DACOR corporate entity
> >
> > John
> Dacor is a corporation and as such a seperate entity from who owns it. If I
> owe you $1,000.00 while working for x, I still owe you the money when y
> hires me and I move.
>
>

Actually, Dacor is a brand.

How much liability the present brand owners (Head or Mares, someone
help me out here, please) have depends on the terms and conditions of
the sale. If all they bought is the name, they may have no obligation
to honor warranties.




> I once received a refund on a printer by sending the company a letter
> documenting all that I had done to try to get my money back along with a
> list of the magazines I was going to send copies too.
>
>

This depends on how much damage such letters might do to the brand. In
some cases, like yours, it's cheaper to pay a person off and shut them
up. In others, it isn't.

On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 22:47:54 -0000, "Reid Wood" <reid.wood@adelphia.net> wrote:

>It seems wrong that a scuba manufacturer would offer a lifetime warranty and

There is nothing to honor, is there? A "warranty" is typically applies
to defects in workmanship and/or materials, and (usually) specifically
excludes parts subject to wear and tear in normal use.

The obligation to supply replacement parts has nothing to do with a
warranty. Under some conditions (like your car) a manufacturer is required
to build/supply replacement parts for a specified time (Seven years I think),
after he ceases manufacture of a model.

I'm surprised that the parts aren't offered. Are you sure that you didn't
just get a run-around? Many Scuba MFG's will not supply parts to anyone
except an authorized dealer.

>then discontinue parts so that the user would have to upgrade to newer
>equipment.

Ceasing the manufacture of the replacement parts isn't a call to buy
new Dacor, it's a call to buy something else.

safe diving,

bullshark

In article <410D8023.A7CFD9A6@acm.org>, Pete Becker
<petebecker@acm.org> wrote:

> Alan Street wrote:
> >
> > Actually, Dacor is a brand.
> >
> > How much liability the present brand owners (Head or Mares, someone
> > help me out here, please) have depends on the terms and conditions of
> > the sale.
> >
>
> It also depends on what the warranty says.

Actually, no.

If a warranty is issued by a company that no longer exists, what it
says is irrelevant. The fact that the consumer *thinks* the present
brand owners are liable doesn't matter at all.

This is the main reason that "lifetime warrantys" are illegal in
Germany. Since there's no way to insure that a company will stay in
business for the "lifetime" of the user, they're considered a
meaningless advertising gimmick (as our Dacor purchaser is
unfortunately finding out).

alan

Alan Street wrote:
>
> In article <410D8023.A7CFD9A6@acm.org>, Pete Becker
> <petebecker@acm.org> wrote:
>
> > Alan Street wrote:
> > >
> > > Actually, Dacor is a brand.
> > >
> > > How much liability the present brand owners (Head or Mares, someone
> > > help me out here, please) have depends on the terms and conditions of
> > > the sale.
> > >
> >
> > It also depends on what the warranty says.
>
> Actually, no.
>
> If a warranty is issued by a company that no longer exists, what it
> says is irrelevant. The fact that the consumer *thinks* the present
> brand owners are liable doesn't matter at all.

Whether the current brand owner is liable depends on the terms of their
purchase and, if they are responsible for warranty support, on what the
warranty says.

>
> This is the main reason that "lifetime warrantys" are illegal in
> Germany. Since there's no way to insure that a company will stay in
> business for the "lifetime" of the user, they're considered a
> meaningless advertising gimmick (as our Dacor purchaser is
> unfortunately finding out).
>

That's one possible meaning of "lifetime warranty." Whether that's
actually what the warranty means depends on what the warranty says.
"Lifetime warranty" usually means product lifetime.

--

Pete Becker
Dinkumware, Ltd. (http://www.dinkumware.com)

Alan Street wrote:
> In article <p3aPc.3167$z13.819@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>, Mike
> Painter <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> John wrote:
>>> Not going to work, as others have mentioned, the DACOR that sold and
>>> warranted that regulator no longer exists, and the NEW DACOR has NO
>>> legal obligation to honor any warrantees on products made/sold by
>>> the original DACOR corporate entity
>>>
>>> John
>> Dacor is a corporation and as such a seperate entity from who owns
>> it. If I owe you $1,000.00 while working for x, I still owe you the
>> money when y hires me and I move.
>>
>>
>
> Actually, Dacor is a brand.
>
No, Dacor is a corporation which sells things under the Dacor brand:

Dacor Corporation
161 Northfield Road
Northfield, IL 60093
Tel: (708) 446-9555

In article <UkjPc.3312$I8.1941@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>, Mike
Painter <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> Alan Street wrote:
> > In article <p3aPc.3167$z13.819@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>, Mike
> > Painter <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >
> >> John wrote:
> >>> Not going to work, as others have mentioned, the DACOR that sold and
> >>> warranted that regulator no longer exists, and the NEW DACOR has NO
> >>> legal obligation to honor any warrantees on products made/sold by
> >>> the original DACOR corporate entity
> >>>
> >>> John
> >> Dacor is a corporation and as such a seperate entity from who owns
> >> it. If I owe you $1,000.00 while working for x, I still owe you the
> >> money when y hires me and I move.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Actually, Dacor is a brand.
> >
> No, Dacor is a corporation which sells things under the Dacor brand:
>
> Dacor Corporation
> 161 Northfield Road
> Northfield, IL 60093
> Tel: (708) 446-9555
>
>

Really?

From their current website:

<http://www.divedacor.com/contact.html>
<http://www.divedacor.com/about.html>

---------------------------
Dacor
Shore Pointe
One Selleck Street
Norwalk, CT 06855
USA

203-852-7079 (phone)
203-853-2892 (fax)

-----------------------------

The late Sam Davison started Dacor in 1953. Dacor, the pioneer of many
firsts in the diving industry, has started a new chapter for the year
2000 and beyond. Acquired in 1998 by HEAD, the world leader in sports
products, Dacor now has solidified its position as one of the strongest
and largest Scuba equipment manufacturers in the world.

Dacor is committed to making innovative, high quality diving products
for today's diver and also to provide the highest level of customer
service to our dealers and consumers. Dacor has in place a large
network of retail professionals who support the growing number of
divers in or entering our sport.

Thank you for choosing Dacor.
----------------------------

Sounds a lot like a brand to me.

Alan

Alan Street wrote:
> In article <UkjPc.3312$I8.1941@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>, Mike
> Painter <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> Alan Street wrote:
>>> In article <p3aPc.3167$z13.819@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>, Mike
>>> Painter <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> John wrote:
>>>>> Not going to work, as others have mentioned, the DACOR that sold
>>>>> and warranted that regulator no longer exists, and the NEW DACOR
>>>>> has NO legal obligation to honor any warrantees on products
>>>>> made/sold by the original DACOR corporate entity
>>>>>
>>>>> John
>>>> Dacor is a corporation and as such a seperate entity from who owns
>>>> it. If I owe you $1,000.00 while working for x, I still owe you the
>>>> money when y hires me and I move.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Actually, Dacor is a brand.
>>>
>> No, Dacor is a corporation which sells things under the Dacor brand:
>>
>> Dacor Corporation
>> 161 Northfield Road
>> Northfield, IL 60093
>> Tel: (708) 446-9555
>>
>>
>
> Really?
>
> From their current website:
>
> <http://www.divedacor.com/contact.html>
> <http://www.divedacor.com/about.html>
>
> ---------------------------
> Dacor
> Shore Pointe
> One Selleck Street
> Norwalk, CT 06855
> USA
>
> 203-852-7079 (phone)
> 203-853-2892 (fax)
>
> -----------------------------
>
> The late Sam Davison started Dacor in 1953. Dacor, the pioneer of many
> firsts in the diving industry, has started a new chapter for the year
> 2000 and beyond. Acquired in 1998 by HEAD, the world leader in sports
> products, Dacor now has solidified its position as one of the
> strongest and largest Scuba equipment manufacturers in the world.
>
> Dacor is committed to making innovative, high quality diving products
> for today's diver and also to provide the highest level of customer
> service to our dealers and consumers. Dacor has in place a large
> network of retail professionals who support the growing number of
> divers in or entering our sport.
>
> Thank you for choosing Dacor.
> ----------------------------
>
> Sounds a lot like a brand to me.

A brand name can't hold a copyright. Only a person or a corporation can.
Note who holds the copyright at the bottom of the page.
Mares may be selling things under the Dacor name but they bought Dacor
corporation.

Which reminds me about the joke about the all you can eat restaurant
that tells you when have have eaten all you can.....



Alan Street wrote:

> In article <410D8023.A7CFD9A6@acm.org>, Pete Becker
> <petebecker@acm.org> wrote:
>
>
>>Alan Street wrote:
>>
>>>Actually, Dacor is a brand.
>>>
>>>How much liability the present brand owners (Head or Mares, someone
>>>help me out here, please) have depends on the terms and conditions of
>>>the sale.
>>>
>>
>>It also depends on what the warranty says.
>
>
> Actually, no.
>
> If a warranty is issued by a company that no longer exists, what it
> says is irrelevant. The fact that the consumer *thinks* the present
> brand owners are liable doesn't matter at all.
>
> This is the main reason that "lifetime warrantys" are illegal in
> Germany. Since there's no way to insure that a company will stay in
> business for the "lifetime" of the user, they're considered a
> meaningless advertising gimmick (as our Dacor purchaser is
> unfortunately finding out).
>
> alan

On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 21:50:32 -0400, DrYak <DrYak@nospam.com> wrote:

>Lee,
>I'm not a lawyer, so help me with this. Someone sells me equipment with
>a guarantee. They then sell the company to someone else and can break
>their contract with me? And trial lawyers have a bad name.
>Y
>

Yep. There is no "law" forcing a vendor to support a product
indefinitely. A Lifetime Warranty, is also contingent on the
"Lifetime" of the corporate entity that sold the product. If the
corporate entity no longer exists, the life is over. All they really
needed to do was dissolve the corporation. The brand may still exist
but the obligations of the corporation are discharged. Sometimes the
obligations of the selling company will be transferred to the buying
company as a condition of the sale, but this is always negotiable and
will certainly have a negative impact on the purchase price. So if the
sellers want maximum cash-out, they will not pass the obligations
along to the buyer. The buyer might support the warranties as a good
customer relations policy, but this is a marketing decision. Debt is
the only "sticky" obligation... but even that can be eliminated.

Check it out:

Company can't make it as an ongoing concern.
Company announces possibility of going chapter 11.
Company forms subsidiary corporations without the debts.
Company goes chapter 11.
Company spins off subs, hiring the old board and management.
Company declares bankruptcy, discharging all debt for pennies on the
dollar.
Company folds, liquidates, lays off.. all nice an' neat.
Company management continues doing business under new name with mostly
same old management now out of debt, shareholders and employees
screwed.

Don't believe me?

See UAL -> United Airlines -> Ted
Watch what happens this year.

Geoff wrote:
> On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 21:50:32 -0400, DrYak <DrYak@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Lee,
>>I'm not a lawyer, so help me with this. Someone sells me equipment with
>>a guarantee. They then sell the company to someone else and can break
>>their contract with me? And trial lawyers have a bad name.
>>Y
>>
>
>
> Yep. There is no "law" forcing a vendor to support a product
> indefinitely. A Lifetime Warranty, is also contingent on the
> "Lifetime" of the corporate entity that sold the product. If the
> corporate entity no longer exists, the life is over. All they really
> needed to do was dissolve the corporation. The brand may still exist
> but the obligations of the corporation are discharged. Sometimes the
> obligations of the selling company will be transferred to the buying
> company as a condition of the sale, but this is always negotiable and
> will certainly have a negative impact on the purchase price. So if the
> sellers want maximum cash-out, they will not pass the obligations
> along to the buyer. The buyer might support the warranties as a good
> customer relations policy, but this is a marketing decision. Debt is
> the only "sticky" obligation... but even that can be eliminated.
>
> Check it out:
>
> Company can't make it as an ongoing concern.

Company outsources back office responsibilities

> Company announces possibility of going chapter 11.
> Company forms subsidiary corporations without the debts.
> Company goes chapter 11.
> Company spins off subs, hiring the old board and management.
> Company declares bankruptcy, discharging all debt for pennies on the
> dollar.
> Company folds, liquidates, lays off.. all nice an' neat.
> Company management continues doing business under new name with mostly
> same old management now out of debt, shareholders and employees
> screwed.
>
> Don't believe me?
>
> See UAL -> United Airlines -> Ted
> Watch what happens this year.


One slight change to the new American dream...

--
jer email reply - I am not a 'ten'
"All that we do is touched with ocean, yet we remain on the shore of
what we know." -- Richard Wilbur