Regulators that perform well at depths below 70 feet

Walter

First question, have you been getting your regulator serviced YEARLY
as you are supposd to (or even more often if used heavily)???

What brand and model regulator do you have?? When was the last time
you had it checked and tuned???

Frankly, just about ANY regulator in tune should NOT produce a maked
difference between 60ft and 80ft in a non-energetic situation, so I am
going to guess that the regulator is BADLY out of TUNE or needs and
overhaul badly

John

On 13 Aug 2004 15:56:08 -0500, "Walter Willis"
<walter.willis@comcast.net> wrote:

>I have recently come to the conclusion, after careful observation, that my
>regulator does not handle breathing at depths beyond 70 feet very well. The
>effort required to pull air gets rather hard. When I dive above 70' I can
>get a total dive time of over 40 minutes. But as soon as I go below that
>level my total times falls below 30 minutes, and it does not seem to matter
>how long I am below that depth, even just a couple of minutes will do this.
>Wondering what might be behind this I tried to compare the effort in
>breathing through my regulator at 60' and 80' and I found a noticable
>difference. The draw was stiff, I had to put extra work into breathing that
>then caused me to increase my breathing rate, kind of like I was running,
>yet I was not physically working to fight current or such. In fact I was
>cruising with the current or in relative calm and not working.
>
>I think it might be time to explore replacing my regulator (which is a basic
>regulator purchased in 1997) with one that is more capable of handleing
>depths below 70'. I'd like to hear from other divers what regulator they
>use and their experience with it below 70'.
>
>Thank you for any responses.
>
>Walter Willis
>
>
>
>

I concur with the previous post. Have your regulator serviced. In regards to
what I use. I use Apex 200's for Tech diving. My deepest dive was to 221
feet. With little or no breathing effort.Shallower stuff of less than a
hundred and thirty feet I use my Draeger Rebreather.

"John" <john@interoz.com> wrote in message
news:6qeqh017eiqgkalf2lbl9rhpbg7qiqj4l4@4ax.com...
> Walter
>
> First question, have you been getting your regulator serviced YEARLY
> as you are supposd to (or even more often if used heavily)???
>
> What brand and model regulator do you have?? When was the last time
> you had it checked and tuned???
>
> Frankly, just about ANY regulator in tune should NOT produce a maked
> difference between 60ft and 80ft in a non-energetic situation, so I am
> going to guess that the regulator is BADLY out of TUNE or needs and
> overhaul badly
>
> John
>
> On 13 Aug 2004 15:56:08 -0500, "Walter Willis"
> <walter.willis@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >I have recently come to the conclusion, after careful observation, that
my
> >regulator does not handle breathing at depths beyond 70 feet very well.
The
> >effort required to pull air gets rather hard. When I dive above 70' I
can
> >get a total dive time of over 40 minutes. But as soon as I go below that
> >level my total times falls below 30 minutes, and it does not seem to
matter
> >how long I am below that depth, even just a couple of minutes will do
this.
> >Wondering what might be behind this I tried to compare the effort in
> >breathing through my regulator at 60' and 80' and I found a noticable
> >difference. The draw was stiff, I had to put extra work into breathing
that
> >then caused me to increase my breathing rate, kind of like I was running,
> >yet I was not physically working to fight current or such. In fact I was
> >cruising with the current or in relative calm and not working.
> >
> >I think it might be time to explore replacing my regulator (which is a
basic
> >regulator purchased in 1997) with one that is more capable of handleing
> >depths below 70'. I'd like to hear from other divers what regulator they
> >use and their experience with it below 70'.
> >
> >Thank you for any responses.
> >
> >Walter Willis
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

"Walter Willis" <walter.willis@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:411d2a3d$0$82991$45beb828@newscene.com...
> I have recently come to the conclusion, after careful observation, that my
> regulator does not handle breathing at depths beyond 70 feet very well.
The
> effort required to pull air gets rather hard. When I dive above 70' I can
> get a total dive time of over 40 minutes. But as soon as I go below that
> level my total times falls below 30 minutes, and it does not seem to
matter
> how long I am below that depth, even just a couple of minutes will do
this.
> Wondering what might be behind this I tried to compare the effort in
> breathing through my regulator at 60' and 80' and I found a noticable
> difference. The draw was stiff, I had to put extra work into breathing
that
> then caused me to increase my breathing rate, kind of like I was running,
> yet I was not physically working to fight current or such. In fact I was
> cruising with the current or in relative calm and not working.
>
> I think it might be time to explore replacing my regulator (which is a
basic
> regulator purchased in 1997) with one that is more capable of handleing
> depths below 70'. I'd like to hear from other divers what regulator they
> use and their experience with it below 70'.
>
> Thank you for any responses.
>
> Walter Willis

Responses would probably have been better if you had shared the brand and
model of your regulator.

The first step is to take your regulator to a qualified technician. Note
that I sand take, not send. You want to hand it to them and be able to
discuss, face to face, the problems you are having. If he can't help, then
a new regulator may be what you need. Go with a brand name, use a qualified
person for your service and keep the service current.

Lee

In article <411d2a3d$0$82991$45beb828@newscene.com>,
"Walter Willis" <walter.willis@comcast.net> writes:

> ... When I dive above 70' I can
>get a total dive time of over 40 minutes. But as soon as I go below that
>level my total times falls below 30 minutes, ...

Do follow the prviously posted advice to get your regulator serviced.

However, you air supply will diminish more rapidly at greater depths.
At greater depths your 2nd stange provides air at greater pressure --
necessarily matching the greater ambient pressure at greater depth.
Consequently, each breath will reduce your tank pressure by a
greater mount.

Maybe you need to get out your Basic Open Water text and review this.

--
Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale FL USA
(hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)
All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.

> First question, have you been getting your regulator serviced YEARLY
> as you are supposd to (or even more often if used heavily)???
>
Yes, it has been serviced annually, whether I did 1 dive or 40 dives in the
year. The last servicing was in March of this year. In 2002 it actually
had a major overhaul. I took it into my local dive equipment shop. I had
to replace the first stage two years ago (when they did the major overhaul
they found one of the components had gotten bent) and I replaced it with a
higher end model.

> What brand and model regulator do you have??

When I sent the message I was at work and my regs are at home. I forgot to
get the brand and model, but I think it is a US Divers. But I also did not
feel that the brand and model were germaine to the discussion, I'm looking
for thoughts and recommendations from divers on regulators that they have
found work very well in deeper dives. What I can tell you is that my reg
was purchased in 1997, it was not midrange or highend of what was available,
it was an inexpensive though good regulator. I did not know at the time
what kind of diving I would be doing nor how much I would eventually be
diving. It was a good starter reg.
>
> Frankly, just about ANY regulator in tune should NOT produce a maked
> difference between 60ft and 80ft in a non-energetic situation, so I am
> going to guess that the regulator is BADLY out of TUNE or needs and
> overhaul badly
>

From my understanding, not all regs work equally well in deeper water. It's
called performance, and is why some regs have this little adjustment valve
to be used when in deeper water. My reg does not have this adjustment. The
difference was not marked as in twice as hard, I just noticed that I did
have to work harder at breathing when I went below 70-80' because there
seemed to be 'resistance', and that this extra work was leading to a more
rapid breathing rate. It also did not seem to matter whether I went to 80'
or 110', my dive time was equally short (30 minutes roughly). I understand
the overall physics involved and I know that I am breathing air at the
equivelent of 3-4 atm, and that this will cut into my overall bottem time.
The problem is that the amount of bottem time lost is not in proportion to
my time deeper or my actual depth below 70-80'. It's like as soon as I hit
the 80' mark I lost 15 minutes, but going to 110' only caused an additional
minute to be lost (29 minutes if I went to 110, 30 minutes if I was between
80-85). From looking at my dive profiles while I was on a dive trip I
noticed in a couple of cases that I dipped to 80-85' for a total period of
about 3 minutes. This was sufficient to cut my total dive time to 30
minutes, while if I stayed at or above 70' I could get a dive time of 45
minutes. Looking at the dive profiles is what got me to wondering why such
a short dip would cause such a large difference in dive time, and yes I took
into consideration the increased preassure but there would not be much
difference between these two depths, not enough to account for losing 15
minutes. I spoke with the divemaster/cruise director who I would consider
very knowledgable about this. His thoughts were along the same lines - my
reg may not be performing as well at greater depths because of its design.

Walter

> John
>
> On 13 Aug 2004 15:56:08 -0500, "Walter Willis"
> <walter.willis@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >I have recently come to the conclusion, after careful observation, that
my
> >regulator does not handle breathing at depths beyond 70 feet very well.
The
> >effort required to pull air gets rather hard. When I dive above 70' I
can
> >get a total dive time of over 40 minutes. But as soon as I go below that
> >level my total times falls below 30 minutes, and it does not seem to
matter
> >how long I am below that depth, even just a couple of minutes will do
this.
> >Wondering what might be behind this I tried to compare the effort in
> >breathing through my regulator at 60' and 80' and I found a noticable
> >difference. The draw was stiff, I had to put extra work into breathing
that
> >then caused me to increase my breathing rate, kind of like I was running,
> >yet I was not physically working to fight current or such. In fact I was
> >cruising with the current or in relative calm and not working.
> >
> >I think it might be time to explore replacing my regulator (which is a
basic
> >regulator purchased in 1997) with one that is more capable of handleing
> >depths below 70'. I'd like to hear from other divers what regulator they
> >use and their experience with it below 70'.
> >
> >Thank you for any responses.
> >
> >Walter Willis
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

>
> Responses would probably have been better if you had shared the brand and
> model of your regulator.
>
Only if I was looking for recommendations of what to do with my current reg.
:) But I am looking to upgrade because the one I bought in 1997 was at the
low end of the models. I did not know then what kind of diving I would be
doing nor how much nor how deep. It was a good starter reg.

> The first step is to take your regulator to a qualified technician. Note
> that I sand take, not send. You want to hand it to them and be able to
> discuss, face to face, the problems you are having. If he can't help,
then
> a new regulator may be what you need. Go with a brand name, use a
qualified
> person for your service and keep the service current.
>

Taken to my local dive ship annually for service, major overhaul in 2002.
However, I have not spoken to them about the performance at depth, because
this is something that I paid more attention to during a recent dive trip.
I noticed a trend from my dive profiles on the trip and that is what got me
wondering.

Walter

> Lee
>
>

>
> > ... When I dive above 70' I
can
> >get a total dive time of over 40 minutes. But as soon as I go below that
> >level my total times falls below 30 minutes, ...
>
> Do follow the prviously posted advice to get your regulator serviced.
>
It is seviced annually, regardless of how many dives I have done during the
year. Since it is not used heavily during the year it is serviced once per
year. It was also overhauld in 2002 - completely.

> However, you air supply will diminish more rapidly at greater depths.
> At greater depths your 2nd stange provides air at greater pressure --
> necessarily matching the greater ambient pressure at greater depth.
> Consequently, each breath will reduce your tank pressure by a
> greater mount.
>
> Maybe you need to get out your Basic Open Water text and review this.
>

I am aware of the physics and that the ATM preassure is different the deeper
you go, and that you use more air at 99' than at 66'. But that does not
explain why if I go to 80-85' for a period of 3 minutes I loose 15 minutes
of dive time compared to staying 70' and above, yet if I go to 110' for a
comperable period I only loose 16-17 minutes compared to shallower. I would
expect to have a dive time shortened by maybe 4-5 minutes from a 3 minute
period at 80-85', not a 15 minute difference.

Walter

Walter Willis <walter.willis@comcast.net> wrote:
>> Responses would probably have been better if you had shared the brand and
>> model of your regulator.
>>
>Only if I was looking for recommendations of what to do with my current reg.
>:) But I am looking to upgrade because the one I bought in 1997 was at the
>low end of the models. I did not know then what kind of diving I would be
>doing nor how much nor how deep. It was a good starter reg.

This sort of attitude borders on trollish, Walter. It is incredibly relevent
what reg you have - how the hell can we make a recommendation for a replacement
without knowing the original? It's also rather easy to borrow or rent
a better rig to see.

Frankly, nothing really explains well what's going on with you. Even a low
performance reg will do well enough at 80; if not I think it would be evident
at any depth. The tuning knobs on my G250 are not used when I go deeper; many
feel that a properly tuned G200 (no knobs) is a good way to save a few bucks.

If it were deeper I'd wonder if you're getting narc'd and thus spiking your
SAC, even after you finish your spike. I've felt it as shallow as 90, but
usually not. Does depth make you nervous?

Are you getting cold? Are you hitting thermoclines at depth that stress the
body?
--
Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com

hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) wrote in message news:<D_2Uc.8077$tW.6780@news.cpqcorp.net>...
> However, you air supply will diminish more rapidly at greater depths.
> At greater depths your 2nd stange provides air at greater pressure --
> necessarily matching the greater ambient pressure at greater depth.
> Consequently, each breath will reduce your tank pressure by a
> greater mount.

Definitely worth knowing your normal surface-equivalent air
consumption, both for planning and monitoring. The math is easy, and
you should be able to find it in any decent scuba book.

For what it's worth, you should expect your dive time at 70' to be
about 10% less than at 60'; at 80' it should be about 18 percent less
(all else -- effort, temperature, etc. -- being equal).

> >Only if I was looking for recommendations of what to do with my current
reg.
> >:) But I am looking to upgrade because the one I bought in 1997 was at
the
> >low end of the models. I did not know then what kind of diving I would
be
> >doing nor how much nor how deep. It was a good starter reg.
>
> This sort of attitude borders on trollish, Walter. It is incredibly
relevent
> what reg you have - how the hell can we make a recommendation for a
replacement
> without knowing the original? It's also rather easy to borrow or rent
> a better rig to see.
>

In no way did I even intend to be trollish. I just did not feel, in my
opinion, that it was germaine to the discussion because I am looking for a
replacement. And that is why I put the little smiley emoticon there so
people would not think I was 'jumping down their throat' or such. But I can
certainly get the brand and model when I get home and post it since many do
think it is pertanant.

> Frankly, nothing really explains well what's going on with you. Even a
low
> performance reg will do well enough at 80; if not I think it would be
evident
> at any depth. The tuning knobs on my G250 are not used when I go deeper;
many
> feel that a properly tuned G200 (no knobs) is a good way to save a few
bucks.
>

If that were the case why do some regs come with a knob to open up the flow
when you are deeper? If the performance of the reg is 'even' throughout the
range, why would there be a need for a knob to open up the flow? Or is that
just a gimmick to get you to pay more?

> If it were deeper I'd wonder if you're getting narc'd and thus spiking
your
> SAC, even after you finish your spike. I've felt it as shallow as 90, but
> usually not. Does depth make you nervous?
>

Not at all, not anymore. There was some nervousness when I had not done
many dives deeper than 60', but I would not say I am nervous or scared
anylonger. Night dives - that's different - I still feel uneasy doing night
dives because I do get a little disoriented (I should do more so I learn to
overcome).

> Are you getting cold? Are you hitting thermoclines at depth that stress
the body?

No thermoclines either (though we did hit some during the trip but they were
not present on every dive and don't seem to have a connection - the coldest
I registered was a nice 81 degrees).

I will take my regs into the shop and speak with them about it, see what
they have to say. I just have not had the time since I returned from my
trip.

Walter