Rockboots and jet fins

In article
<Pine.GSO.4.44.0410150122370.22009-100000@elaine6.Stanford.EDU>,
Charlie <cckim@Stanford.EDU> wrote:

€ DIR dogma says wear jet fins with my rockboots.

No, it doesn't.

€ I'm not one to follow dogma,

Particularly when said dogma requires knowledge and the effort to learn.
€
€ My problem is that jet fins don't seem to fit my size 8 rockboots at all:

Funny, they fit my 9's.

€ My question: any suggestions?

Yes. DIRF.

Contempt prior to investigation is the mark of a fool.

--
"I know we're going to die. There's three of us who are going to do something
about it."
-Tom Burnett, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001

In article <Pine.GSO.4.44.0410150122370.22009-100000
@elaine6.Stanford.EDU>, cckim@Stanford.EDU says...
> My question: any suggestions? I thought about getting the jet fins anyway
> and cutting the top of the pocket, but this seems less than optimal. Can
> anyone recommend any other traditional paddle fins along these lines?

The problem is the rock boots. In a drysuit made for them, I have seen
people successfully use wetsuit booties, but the real solution is the
old style drysuit feet.

You want XL jet fins. Anything else has a smaller fin. The difference is
dramatic. I am size 8 and use XL fins. In a wetsuit, I use booties with
thick soles, and in my drysuit, I have the right feet.

As the Scubapro JetFins XL size is really only slightly larger than a normal
L size, you could look at other brands of similar rubber 'jet-fins'. I
don't mean those crappy split-jet fins, but ones that are almost identical
to the original jetfins.

Two other makes that come to mind are Northern Diver in the UK and Tusa,
both make clone jetfins in original hard rubber. Northern Diver (and I
believe others) also make these in larger sizes, such as XXL, and I've even
seen them in colours other than black (that's obvioulsy not DIR and so you
may be shot as a Scuba terrorist if you buy red fins).

In addition the clone jetfins are about 2/3rds of the price of the Scubapro
ones, however I don't think that the straps are as strong, so the use of
spring straps is still wise (although they cost more than the bloody fins
themselves!!).

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004, Jammer Six wrote:

> € DIR dogma says wear jet fins with my rockboots.
> No, it doesn't.
>
> € I'm not one to follow dogma,
> Particularly when said dogma requires knowledge and the effort to learn.
> €
> € My problem is that jet fins don't seem to fit my size 8 rockboots at all:
>
> Funny, they fit my 9's.
>
> € My question: any suggestions?
>
> Yes. DIRF.
>
> Contempt prior to investigation is the mark of a fool.

Whoa, down boy. First of all, if it's contempt I conveyed, my apologies -
I'm trying to dive DIR because I agree with many of the ideas. Already
doing the backplate, long hose, and octo on my neck. Just looking for
info on how to get the fins dialed.

Everything I've read so far seems to indicate that the JetFins are the
most popular fin among people who dive DIR - they offer more
maneuverability/better frog kicking & reversing, the strap system doesn't
have as many places to catch on line/kelp, etc. If that's not true,
alternative recommendations would be much more constructive than snide
comments.

To reiterate from my last e-mail, it's not that my size 8 rockboots don't
fit into the XL, it's that they have a great deal of side to side movement
in the large foot pocket. Al, you said your setup works with JetFins and
you have size 8 rockboots: do you not have problems with lateral motion?
What exactly do you mean by "I have the right feet"? Do I need to wait
for the next life to have a real chance at diving DIR?

Tony: thanks for the suggestions. I'll look into the fins you mentioned.

Charlie

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:36:06 +0100, "Tony Howard" <tony@samesamediving.com> wrote:

>As the Scubapro JetFins XL size is really only slightly larger than a normal
>L size,

You are seroiuusly misinformed.

The XL's are about TWICE as BIG as the large.

safe diving,

bullshark
safe diving,

bullshark

"Charlie" wrote

> > ? DIR dogma says wear jet fins with my rockboots.
> No, it doesn't.

It doesn't mention rockboots. I does say wear Jet Fins.

> Whoa, down boy. First of all, if it's contempt I conveyed, my apologies -
> I'm trying to dive DIR because I agree with many of the ideas. Already
> doing the backplate, long hose, and octo on my neck. Just looking for
> info on how to get the fins dialed.

You were doing OK until you got to this point. Unless you are planning to
dive with WKPP members, there's no particular merit to trying to be DIR.
While there is considerable merit to considering DIR concepts and whether
they are best for the diving you do, there's no point at all in adopting
things, like jet fins, if they don't suit your diving.

> Everything I've read so far seems to indicate that the JetFins are the
> most popular fin among people who dive DIR - they offer more
> maneuverability/better frog kicking & reversing, the strap system doesn't
> have as many places to catch on line/kelp, etc. If that's not true,
> alternative recommendations would be much more constructive than snide
> comments.

You got only one thing correct. They are popular among people who dive DIR.
Everything else is a matter of considerable disagreement. Jet Fins work
well in caves because they do not represent as much of a silt out risk as
most other popular fins. They aren't as risky because they don't move as
much water and, unless the laws of physics have been repealed, moving water
is what moves the diver. They are not more maneuverable, they don't frog
kick better and they don't reverse any better than a number of other
options. The strap system is a non issue since DIR divers immediately
change them out for aftermarket spring straps.

Personally, I hate Jet Fins. I tried them when they first came out, long
before most people in this group were diving. In fact, it was before some
people in this group were born. I didn't like them then and I don't like
them any better now. YMMV. Some people like them for all types of diving.
Those that do, should use them . . . provided they really like them for the
way they perform and not simply because a famous bunch of cave divers find
them best for the diving they do.

> To reiterate from my last e-mail, it's not that my size 8 rockboots don't
> fit into the XL, it's that they have a great deal of side to side movement
> in the large foot pocket. Al, you said your setup works with JetFins and
> you have size 8 rockboots: do you not have problems with lateral motion?
> What exactly do you mean by "I have the right feet"? Do I need to wait
> for the next life to have a real chance at diving DIR?

Better you should do a bit of experimenting and decide what is best for you
based on the diving you do. That's what "experience" is all about.

Lee

In article
<Pine.GSO.4.44.0410151009310.25432-100000@elaine6.Stanford.EDU>,
Charlie <cckim@Stanford.EDU> wrote:

€ Whoa, down boy.

Oh, good, you're finally here.

We've been waiting for you.

Now you can clean this group up, and keep things civil.

--
"We're going to rush the hijackers."
-Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001

In article <416fb67b.0@entanet>, tony@samesamediving.com says...
> Two other makes that come to mind are Northern Diver in the UK and Tusa,
> both make clone jetfins in original hard rubber. Northern Diver (and I
> believe others) also make these in larger sizes, such as XXL, and I've even
> seen them in colours other than black (that's obvioulsy not DIR and so you
> may be shot as a Scuba terrorist if you buy red fins).

Scubapro also made them is colors. I've seen yellow and pink Jet fins,
and know a WKPP diver who delights in wearing his yellow ones.

I think we're having a size terminology misunderstanding. Scubapro Jet
Fins run small in foot size. Someone with a size 8 foot would use Large
with normal wetsuit booties. A lot of people have feet too big for XL.
However, the blade on the XL is way bigger than the blade on all of the
other sizes. THe S, M and L are all the same blade size, but the XL is a
lot bigger.

Al Wells wrote:
> In article <416fb67b.0@entanet>, tony@samesamediving.com says...
>
>>Two other makes that come to mind are Northern Diver in the UK and Tusa,
>>both make clone jetfins in original hard rubber. Northern Diver (and I
>>believe others) also make these in larger sizes, such as XXL, and I've even
>>seen them in colours other than black (that's obvioulsy not DIR and so you
>>may be shot as a Scuba terrorist if you buy red fins).
>
>
> Scubapro also made them is colors. I've seen yellow and pink Jet fins,
> and know a WKPP diver who delights in wearing his yellow ones.
>

FWIW, Scubapro makes two styles of Jet fins. The black ones are the
hardest material. The gray, yellow, and every other color are the same
type of softer material.

--
More people died in Ted Kennedy's car than have been killed by my guns.

Al Wells wrote:
> Scubapro also made them is colors. I've seen yellow and pink Jet fins,
> and know a WKPP diver who delights in wearing his yellow ones.

Blitch. Bastard outbid me on ebay when I wasn't looking.