DIR/Halcyon BP slots

"Brian Nadwidny" wrote

> I should've clarified it. I should've said "When towing people there is
> a better way that doesn't involve using a crotch strap". Obviously for
> towing a gibbled scooter then a crotch strap is necessary. For towing
> people basically the tow-ee gets between the legs of the tow-er and
> hooks in with his armpits with the tow-er's knees. Of course this
> basically puts the tow-ee's head right up the tow-er's ass but hey,
> what's a little closeness between friends?

I too should have been more specific. I never intended to address towing
people. I didn't even think of it. I was, of course talking about towing
equipment. Those diving a mile or so back into a cave tend to tow a lot of
stuff.

>> Interesting that Andrew is the one to teach something different. Does
>> this
>> mean he's departing from the true path of DIR or has the entire movement
>> adopted a new technique?
>
> Lee, if you only knew what is going on...

I used to try to keep up. All it ever got me was insults and, now that
George is occupied with the family business, the insults aren't even very
good.

Lee

Grot wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 11:49:13 GMT, "Lee Bell"
> <leebell@ix.remove.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>
>>"Grot" wrote
>>
>>
>>>>>DO NOT remove the crotch strap, it is an integral piece of the
>>>>>backplate system.
>>>>
>>>>Do not listen to anybody that claims to know just what is right for you.
>>>>Give it a try without the crotch strap. You might find you like it.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Exactly my point, advise given is free, its up to you to take it or
>>>not. Removing pieces here and there, adding bits, changing the system
>>>will introduce additional complexities. There are reasons why the
>>>crotch strap is there, as there are reasons why the webbing is
>>>threading the way it is.
>>
>>If that was your point, perhaps you should have said that instead of simply
>>preaching to others.
>>
>>Feel free to explain how removing a crotch strap introduces complexity but
>>having one that is not needed doesn't . . . if you think you can.
>
>
> Removing the crotch strap would loosen the whole rig up. Without the
> strap in place I would have to tighten up the webbing around the arms
> which would introduce additional problems.

It's kinda cute how you just make stuff up.

In article <gXZed.322578$bp1.210420@twister.nyroc.rr.com>, Jon C
<news@jonnythan.com> wrote:

€ It's kinda cute how you just make stuff up.

Didn't Blackie do the same thing with his console or something?

--
"We're going to rush the hijackers."
-Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001

Hi,
I have been spending some time choosing my first dive equipment and
recently bought a Halcyon Alloy BP and 27lb pioneer wing.
Setting up the harness, among other problems, I found that the
straps leave the top of the plate and point towards the centre of
the head, and when wearing it, the straps loop up on one side and
pull into one side of the slot because of the 40 degree change of
angle they have to make.
I have a work-around for the problem but find it strange that these
slots aren't positioned better.
The straps would be pointing in a better direction for donning also.
I haven't dived with a backplate setup before or seen one in use
for that matter but the main concern I have in advance is the
donning/doffing technique to use in the water with the added
movement restriction of a wetsuit.
On the PADI course, using a bc jacket with loosened straps, you
could sit on the opened BC and put both arms through. Will this
work OK? I saw mention of an overhead technique regarding BP/harness
donning.

Cheers -
Ron

"Ronald May" <ron.may@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:9f29414d%ron.may@paradise.net.nz...
> Hi,
> I have been spending some time choosing my first dive equipment and
> recently bought a Halcyon Alloy BP and 27lb pioneer wing.
> Setting up the harness, among other problems, I found that the
> straps leave the top of the plate and point towards the centre of
> the head, and when wearing it, the straps loop up on one side and
> pull into one side of the slot because of the 40 degree change of
> angle they have to make.
> I have a work-around for the problem but find it strange that these
> slots aren't positioned better.
> The straps would be pointing in a better direction for donning also.
> I haven't dived with a backplate setup before or seen one in use
> for that matter but the main concern I have in advance is the
> donning/doffing technique to use in the water with the added
> movement restriction of a wetsuit.
> On the PADI course, using a bc jacket with loosened straps, you
> could sit on the opened BC and put both arms through. Will this
> work OK? I saw mention of an overhead technique regarding BP/harness
> donning.
>
> Cheers -
> Ron

The Halcyon Plates are not the best ones available. Take a look at these.

http://www.oxycheq.com/backplates.html

You want a stainless steel plate, and a weighted single tank adapter. The
extra weight comes off your weight belt, you really don't want to have all
of your ballast in a ditchable configuration, especially in a wetsuit. A
steel tank improves the situation even more. A steel tank is lighter and is
less buoyant, so you gain twice.

What are you using for a weight belt? I like the DUI weight system. A
regular belt slides off my ass.

http://www.dui-online.com/bc_wt.htm

Leave the shoulder straps a bit loose for now. How it fits on land is
irrelevant to how it fits in the water.

You might consider taking off that crotch strap as well. You can always put
it back later.

It takes some practice.

Others will offer lots of advice, this topic has been thoroughly beaten to
death many times, we are about due for another round. It will be an
improvement over politics and guns.

Flame on.

R.

What a lot of cobblers.

With a few notable exceptions, most backplates are very similar (many are
copies of others). The main differences come in how the harness is
constructed and laid out.

The only thing that I would say is that the Halcyon is one of the more
expensive, but there is nothing wrong with it.

If Ronald had not already bought his BP & harness then the Oxycheq may have
been a viable alternative, but there is absolutely no need for him to waste
money on changing something that is almost identical.

I have a Halcyon steel backplate, my own manufactured aluminium backplate
and single tank adapter, and two wings, a 55Lb Halcyon and a 40Lb Oxycheq
(for single tank warm water diving).

They are all fine products and each can work with any combination of each
other.

look at http://www.gasdiving.co.uk/pages/misc/kit/harness_2.htm and
http://dir-diver.com/en/equipment/ba...djustment.html for setting the
harness up properly IRRELEVANT of make and model of backplate.

If the harness is not correctly set-up then it will be uncomfortable and the
set-up will either move around too much or be so tight as to stop you
reaching the valve(s).


"Rudy Benner" <bogus@address.com> wrote in message
news:10ndocqm0falvac@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Ronald May" <ron.may@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
> news:9f29414d%ron.may@paradise.net.nz...
>> Hi,
>> I have been spending some time choosing my first dive equipment and
>> recently bought a Halcyon Alloy BP and 27lb pioneer wing.
>> Setting up the harness, among other problems, I found that the
>> straps leave the top of the plate and point towards the centre of
>> the head, and when wearing it, the straps loop up on one side and
>> pull into one side of the slot because of the 40 degree change of
>> angle they have to make.
>> I have a work-around for the problem but find it strange that these
>> slots aren't positioned better.
>> The straps would be pointing in a better direction for donning also.
>> I haven't dived with a backplate setup before or seen one in use
>> for that matter but the main concern I have in advance is the
>> donning/doffing technique to use in the water with the added
>> movement restriction of a wetsuit.
>> On the PADI course, using a bc jacket with loosened straps, you
>> could sit on the opened BC and put both arms through. Will this
>> work OK? I saw mention of an overhead technique regarding BP/harness
>> donning.
>>
>> Cheers -
>> Ron
>
> The Halcyon Plates are not the best ones available. Take a look at these.
>
> http://www.oxycheq.com/backplates.html
>
> You want a stainless steel plate, and a weighted single tank adapter. The
> extra weight comes off your weight belt, you really don't want to have all
> of your ballast in a ditchable configuration, especially in a wetsuit. A
> steel tank improves the situation even more. A steel tank is lighter and
> is less buoyant, so you gain twice.
>
> What are you using for a weight belt? I like the DUI weight system. A
> regular belt slides off my ass.
>
> http://www.dui-online.com/bc_wt.htm
>
> Leave the shoulder straps a bit loose for now. How it fits on land is
> irrelevant to how it fits in the water.
>
> You might consider taking off that crotch strap as well. You can always
> put it back later.
>
> It takes some practice.
>
> Others will offer lots of advice, this topic has been thoroughly beaten to
> death many times, we are about due for another round. It will be an
> improvement over politics and guns.
>
> Flame on.
>
> R.
>

In message <10ndocqm0falvac@corp.supernews.com>
"Rudy Benner" <bogus@address.com> wrote:

>
> The Halcyon Plates are not the best ones available. Take a look at these.
>
> http://www.oxycheq.com/backplates.html
>
A slight improvement, the top of the plate is a bit wider and the
uppermost slots angle down to the outside a bit. I think the 45 degree
slots need to be moved closer to the centre of the plate to get an ideal
exit angle though. The DUI weight harness in your link has the shoulder
straps pointed in the right direction.
I am just wondering why the BP harness shoulder straps aren't following
this angle and let them sit flat and point to the place where they will
be when you wear the harness.
It would be easier to find the arm openings behind your back if the
straps were splayed out a bit - wouldn't it?

> You want a stainless steel plate, and a weighted single tank adapter. The
> extra weight comes off your weight belt, you really don't want to have all
> of your ballast in a ditchable configuration, especially in a wetsuit. A
> steel tank improves the situation even more. A steel tank is lighter and is
> less buoyant, so you gain twice.
>
Yes, I will probably make a steel plate sometime.
How can a steel tank be lighter if it is 4-5 lbs more negative
than alloy when both are empty?
This could only be because the tank outer displacement volume is smaller
for the same air capacity. What is the weight difference?
My empty alloy (80 I think) weighs 33.5lbs

> What are you using for a weight belt? I like the DUI weight system. A
> regular belt slides off my ass.
>
Still looking. The omly good thing about the alloy STA-less BP and the
Pioneer wing is that is really light for travelling.
I would still need something like tank pockets and a belt to fill up
with lead at the destination.
A stiff pocket that can be bolted on the lower two or three boltholes of
the plate and attached to the lower harness belt just to stop them
swinging about would give a fixed adjustable system.
I dont know if it is necessary to have a weight belt system, but if you
were to take the bc off underwater you would become too positive.
The weight integrated BC people obviously dont worry about this.



> http://www.dui-online.com/bc_wt.htm
>
> Leave the shoulder straps a bit loose for now. How it fits on land is
> irrelevant to how it fits in the water.
>
> You might consider taking off that crotch strap as well. You can always put
> it back later.
>
> It takes some practice.

Will do. Cheers
>
> Others will offer lots of advice, this topic has been thoroughly beaten to
> death many times, we are about due for another round. It will be an
> improvement over politics and guns.
>
> Flame on.
>
> R.
>
>

--
Ronald May
1 Canon St.
St Albans
Christchurch 1 NZ Ph 3668779
ron.may@paradise.net.nz or rmay@i4free.co.nz

Ronald May wrote:
> Hi,
> I have been spending some time choosing my first dive equipment and
> recently bought a Halcyon Alloy BP and 27lb pioneer wing.
> Setting up the harness, among other problems, I found that the
> straps leave the top of the plate and point towards the centre of
> the head, and when wearing it, the straps loop up on one side and
> pull into one side of the slot because of the 40 degree change of
> angle they have to make.
> I have a work-around for the problem but find it strange that these
> slots aren't positioned better.
> The straps would be pointing in a better direction for donning also.
> I haven't dived with a backplate setup before or seen one in use
> for that matter but the main concern I have in advance is the
> donning/doffing technique to use in the water with the added
> movement restriction of a wetsuit.
> On the PADI course, using a bc jacket with loosened straps, you
> could sit on the opened BC and put both arms through. Will this
> work OK? I saw mention of an overhead technique regarding BP/harness
> donning.
>
> Cheers -
> Ron

Sounds to me like it's not adjusted well for you. If the straps are too
long they do this shitty loopy thing. If it's adjusted correctly it
looks like this:
http://www.baue.org/images/galleries...=platehei ght
http://tinyurl.com/4oj9q

In message <h1Wdd.15065$JS4.8329@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
Jon C <news@jonnythan.com> wrote:

>
> Sounds to me like it's not adjusted well for you. If the straps are too
> long they do this shitty loopy thing. If it's adjusted correctly it
> looks like this:
> http://www.baue.org/images/galleries...=platehei ght
> http://tinyurl.com/4oj9q

Jon, zoom in a bit on this picture and you will see that the outer
edges of the straps are loose, while the inner edges are doing all
the work at the point where they leave the plate.
Actually these ones look like they are fraying a bit as well.

Cheers
--
Ron

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 08:08:38 +1100, Ronald May
<ron.may@paradise.net.nz> wrote:

>Hi,
> I have been spending some time choosing my first dive equipment and
> recently bought a Halcyon Alloy BP and 27lb pioneer wing.
> Setting up the harness, among other problems, I found that the
> straps leave the top of the plate and point towards the centre of
> the head, and when wearing it, the straps loop up on one side and
> pull into one side of the slot because of the 40 degree change of
> angle they have to make.
> I have a work-around for the problem but find it strange that these
> slots aren't positioned better.
> The straps would be pointing in a better direction for donning also.
> I haven't dived with a backplate setup before or seen one in use
> for that matter but the main concern I have in advance is the
> donning/doffing technique to use in the water with the added
> movement restriction of a wetsuit.

Donning the backplate over the head with your bottle attached is risky
and unnecessary. As long as you can fit two or three fingers between
you and your shoulder straps you will be able to get in and out. All
it takes is a bit practice and for you to be comfortable with your
gear.

> On the PADI course, using a bc jacket with loosened straps, you
> could sit on the opened BC and put both arms through. Will this
> work OK? I saw mention of an overhead technique regarding BP/harness
> donning.
>
>Cheers -
>Ron