Scubapro Mk2 + R290 - why spend more?

> Sorry to let the buy British side down folks. After a fair old session in
> the dive shop with a really helpful shop owner (the first one to ever take
> a couple of regs to bits in front of me and give me some clues on what to
> look for)I now own an Oceanics GT reg with a CDX5 1st stage. Hopefully I
> won't be disappointed!

A mistake I hope you won't regret.

In article <1109020032.2b3e203daa2020d92babb3bb8f91d735@teran ews>,
Neo Mini <krisavon2001@cutthisout.yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>Lee Bell wrote:
>>>Either way you should be a well informed buyer, I mean c'mon were talking
>>>about life support equipment.
>>
>>
>> I didn't follow this thread from the start, so forgive me if I've covered
>> something already mentioned. First, the above is good advice.
>>
>> One significant factor relative to "why pay more" is the warranty. Scuba
>> Pro and some other manufacturers warrantee the parts used for annual service
>> for the original purchaser as long as service is done annually. Since most
>> divers accept that their regulators should be serviced at least annually,
>> this can amount to a considerable savings over time.
>>
>> Lee
>>
>>
>Many thanks to all who offered advice. Yes money is a bit of an issue
>for me because I'm just not very rich but I do appreciate the 'safety
>first' point of view. I sat up last night soaking up as much as i could
>off the net (I even found a positive review of that Cressi Ellipse reg
>on Divernet!) and I've found a pretty helpful dive shop owner who seems
>to be genuinely bothered about what I buy. Funnily enough, his first
>piece of advice over the phone was that the Scubapro Mk2 / R290 was a
>bombproof buy for an occasional holiday diver who didn't think they'd
>ever really 'push the envelope a little'. However, he seems to think
>that the low to middle end of the Apeks range is the best place to start
>for most keen recreational divers and I can see that similar advice has
>appeared before on this newsgroup. Anyway, I'm off to buy my reg after
>work tomorrow.

Yeah, and if you buy the SP regs, you'll need that annual service.

The parts are trivial compared to the labor charges... which they DO NOT
cover.

On the other hand, if you buy a SEALED first stage, such as an Apeks DS4,
you might not need to tear into IT for quite a bit longer.

My records suggest that SP piston firsts (no experience with their
diaphrams) start to creep after 50 or so dives, and thus I end up rebuilding
them.

The DS4s, on the other hand, have yet to show any sign of needing attention.
I'll say something when they actually do...

--
--
Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist
http://www.denninger.net My home on the net - links to everything I do!
http://scubaforum.org Your UNCENSORED place to talk about DIVING!
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"Karl Denninger" wrote

> Yeah, and if you buy the SP regs, you'll need that annual service.

I have Scuba Pro, US Divers, Oceanic and Buchaut regulators. All of them
require annual service as a condition of warantee.

> The parts are trivial compared to the labor charges... which they DO NOT
> cover.

The part required for annual service for my Scuba Pro regulators are a bit
over half the cost of having one done without warantee coverage. Sorry to
hear the labor charges are so much more in your part of the state.

> On the other hand, if you buy a SEALED first stage, such as an Apeks DS4,
> you might not need to tear into IT for quite a bit longer.

I used a US Divers Deep Star regulator for quite a few years without having
it serviced. In fact, it was not serviced the entire time I had it. I
bought it sometime around 1969 and it was stolen sometime around 1972.

> My records suggest that SP piston firsts (no experience with their
> diaphrams) start to creep after 50 or so dives, and thus I end up
> rebuilding
> them.

Not all Scuba Pro regulators are piston types and not everybody shares your
experience with Scuba Pro regulators. Regardless, Scuba Pro was simply an
example of a company that offers a warantee that is significant enough to be
considered in the decision of what to buy and whether to buy new or used.

Lee

Tony Howard wrote:

>>And you have a reg for the argon bottle? :)

> An Apeks US1 1st stage with LP inflator hose and over-pressure valve.
> How else would you connect a 200BAR cylinder to a dry-suit?

I guess you missed the "smiley"...

In article <PBRSd.4349$Ba3.2396@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink. net>,
Lee Bell <leebell@ix.remove.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>"Karl Denninger" wrote
>
>> Yeah, and if you buy the SP regs, you'll need that annual service.
>
>I have Scuba Pro, US Divers, Oceanic and Buchaut regulators. All of them
>require annual service as a condition of warantee.

So?

If the "requirement" is simply a dupe to rope you into spending money at the
shop you otherwise would not need to, then who's the fool for playing along?

>> The parts are trivial compared to the labor charges... which they DO NOT
>> cover.
>
>The part required for annual service for my Scuba Pro regulators are a bit
>over half the cost of having one done without warantee coverage. Sorry to
>hear the labor charges are so much more in your part of the state.

Hehehee... you must believe that there's something magical about an O-ring
in a box that has "Scubapro" on the outside.

>> On the other hand, if you buy a SEALED first stage, such as an Apeks DS4,
>> you might not need to tear into IT for quite a bit longer.
>
>I used a US Divers Deep Star regulator for quite a few years without having
>it serviced. In fact, it was not serviced the entire time I had it. I
>bought it sometime around 1969 and it was stolen sometime around 1972.

See?

>> My records suggest that SP piston firsts (no experience with their
>> diaphrams) start to creep after 50 or so dives, and thus I end up
>> rebuilding
>> them.
>
>Not all Scuba Pro regulators are piston types and not everybody shares your
>experience with Scuba Pro regulators. Regardless, Scuba Pro was simply an
>example of a company that offers a warantee that is significant enough to be
>considered in the decision of what to buy and whether to buy new or used.
>
>Lee

I said that not all SP regs are pistons. However, those who I know that
have had their diaphram first have been even less happy with their stability
than I was with their pistons.

The "warranty" isn't a warranty - its a "free parts" deal, which for them
is a great scam. They stick a half-dozen O-rings in a box, slap a $20
"retail price" on the kit (which cost them $0.20), and then say "see, we
give you this for FREE - so long as you spend $60 every year at our nice
dealer over here."

The truth, however, is that there is exactly one piece in that kit which is
actually "special" - the seat - and that the seat often does not need
replacing.

The O-rings are nothing special, trivial to buy, and worth a nickel each.

A <WARRANTY> is a representation that a product will be free from defects
for a given period of time under a certain set of conditions, or it will be
repaired/replaced by the manufacturer or dealer.

It is not a "we'll give you $0.50 worth of parts every year if you spend $60
at our co-conspirator the dealer here - provided you never stiff him on that
nice annual payment."

(PS: If you only need service every 18 months, its less expensive to pay for
it when you need it, and BUY the parts - even at full retail! Therefore,
the obvious correct answer to such deceptive marketing is to buy a regulator
that doesn't require service as often....)

--
--
Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist
http://www.denninger.net My home on the net - links to everything I do!
http://scubaforum.org Your UNCENSORED place to talk about DIVING!
http://www.spamcuda.net SPAM FREE mailboxes - FREE FOR A LIMITED TIME!
http://genesis3.blogspot.com Musings Of A Sentient Mind

"Karl Denninger" wrote

> I said that not all SP regs are pistons. However, those who I know that
> have had their diaphram first have been even less happy with their
> stability
> than I was with their pistons.

I don't know much about the Scuba Pro diaphram regulators. Mine is a piston
type. My USD regulators were all diaphram types and all gave, and continue
to give me good service.

> The "warranty" isn't a warranty - its a "free parts" deal, which for them
> is a great scam. They stick a half-dozen O-rings in a box, slap a $20
> "retail price" on the kit (which cost them $0.20), and then say "see, we
> give you this for FREE - so long as you spend $60 every year at our nice
> dealer over here."

It's not available retail, it contains more than just O rings and my service
cost, net of parts, is less than $50.

> The truth, however, is that there is exactly one piece in that kit which
> is
> actually "special" - the seat - and that the seat often does not need
> replacing.

Mine's been replaced every time my regulator has been serviced.

Lee

Neo Mini <krisavon2001@cutthisout.yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
news:1109110399.1c68f450df3729c1aba0a8f7f00cd738@t eranews:

> Tony Howard wrote:
>> That's always assuming that your are in the UK )
>>
>>
>> "Tony Howard" <tony@samesamediving.com> wrote in message
>> news:421b9cf1.0@entanet...
>>
>>>Why not wait until the LIDS show at the end of next week ?
>>>
>>>Many of the exhibitors will have special discounts and even those shops
>>>not exhibiting will have 'Show Offers'.
>>>
>>>You could pick up an Apeks ATX40 or ATX509 at a good discount.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
> Sorry to let the buy British side down folks. After a fair old session
> in the dive shop with a really helpful shop owner (the first one to ever
> take a couple of regs to bits in front of me and give me some clues on
> what to look for)I now own an Oceanics GT reg with a CDX5 1st stage.
> Hopefully I won't be disappointed!

Now why did you do that?

--
Michael Wolf
------------

Cthulhu for President! Why settle for the lesser evil?

remove stopspam to reply

In article <1109280946.7398b0f4cc1c7f1b5f7f5864b19b46e9@teran ews>,
krisavon2001@cutthisout.yahoo.co.uk says...
> I gathered my purchase might be controversial as there seem to be a lot
> of Apeks fans in this group. I did consider LIDS but by the time I'd
> paid for the car / train journey I figured that it might be more
> economical to spend the travel money on improving my reg beyond the
> Scubapro Mk2 / R290 set up I originally looked at. The Oceanics GT reg
> with Alpha 7 octopus, CDX 5 1st stage and console all came to £275 as a
> package. An Apeks set was going to cost me £330. I'm happy and the
> reviews I found on the net (including Divernet) suggest I didn't make a
> bad purchase. I'm off to test my new kit out next week and I hope I
> won't be disappointed.

My GF and I own about 20 regulators between us. Our main regs are Apeks
and Beuchat, but there are some Oceanics among the ones we use
regularly. They are rock solid good performers, very simple and easy to
work on. I think you will be happy.

The Oceanics do have some mechanical stupidity around the ports, which
require a specific but not uncommon hose fitting design. It is a
standard 3/8-24 thread, but there has to be a longer round section
between the thread and the hex, or it will not seal. Be careful of this
if you change hoses.

Al Wells wrote:
> In article <1109280946.7398b0f4cc1c7f1b5f7f5864b19b46e9@teran ews>,
> krisavon2001@cutthisout.yahoo.co.uk says...
>
>>I gathered my purchase might be controversial as there seem to be a lot
>>of Apeks fans in this group. I did consider LIDS but by the time I'd
>>paid for the car / train journey I figured that it might be more
>>economical to spend the travel money on improving my reg beyond the
>>Scubapro Mk2 / R290 set up I originally looked at. The Oceanics GT reg
>>with Alpha 7 octopus, CDX 5 1st stage and console all came to £275 as a
>>package. An Apeks set was going to cost me £330. I'm happy and the
>>reviews I found on the net (including Divernet) suggest I didn't make a
>>bad purchase. I'm off to test my new kit out next week and I hope I
>>won't be disappointed.
>
>
> My GF and I own about 20 regulators between us. Our main regs are Apeks
> and Beuchat, but there are some Oceanics among the ones we use
> regularly. They are rock solid good performers, very simple and easy to
> work on. I think you will be happy.
>
> The Oceanics do have some mechanical stupidity around the ports, which
> require a specific but not uncommon hose fitting design. It is a
> standard 3/8-24 thread, but there has to be a longer round section
> between the thread and the hex, or it will not seal. Be careful of this
> if you change hoses.
Thanks Al. I'll remember that.

Al Wells <al.wells@gmail.com> pounded away at his keyboard resulting
in:
:My GF and I own about 20 regulators between us.

Why? What do you do with them all?

Dan Bracuk
If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure.

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