Inflator-integrated octopus

Lee Bell wrote:
> You can increase your buoyancy without taking it out of your mouth, but,
> depending on your attitude in the water, you may or may not be able to
> reduce it.

Okay, you can keep it in your mouth while adding air to the BC, but can
you breathe normally at the same time?

Is there any way that air from the BC could be inhaled by the diver
accidentally, maybe by pushing the deflate button?

I'm trying to get an idea of how these things work.

Lee Bell wrote:
> You can increase your buoyancy without taking it out of your mouth, but,
> depending on your attitude in the water, you may or may not be able to
> reduce it.

Okay, you can keep it in your mouth while adding air to the BC, but can
you breathe normally at the same time?

Is there any way that air from the BC could be inhaled by the diver
accidentally, maybe by pushing the deflate button?

I'm trying to get an idea of how these things work.

Alan Street wrote:
> I had a Sherwood Shadow for a long time, but the one time I really had
> to use it I discovered the limitations of it.

And I get to learn from your mistake. Bonus! :)

Seriously, I can understand the desirability of having fewer hoses
hanging around, but if convenience compromises safety or functionality,
then it becomes less desirable, at least in my mind.

> ultimately I decided that the better system was to use a necklaced
> backup (and a long hose).

Necklaced? Please, don't tell me that you tie the hose around your
neck. :)

Alan Street wrote:
> I had a Sherwood Shadow for a long time, but the one time I really had
> to use it I discovered the limitations of it.

And I get to learn from your mistake. Bonus! :)

Seriously, I can understand the desirability of having fewer hoses
hanging around, but if convenience compromises safety or functionality,
then it becomes less desirable, at least in my mind.

> ultimately I decided that the better system was to use a necklaced
> backup (and a long hose).

Necklaced? Please, don't tell me that you tie the hose around your
neck. :)

HappyFunBoater wrote:
> Of course none of this happens if everyone keeps their head.

And we all know how calm most people are in an emergency. :)

HappyFunBoater wrote:
> Of course none of this happens if everyone keeps their head.

And we all know how calm most people are in an emergency. :)

"HappyFunBoater" wrote

> Image you and your buddy at 80ft. Your buddy is 50ft away when he runs
> out of air, beginning the process of freaking out and turning blue.

50 feet away at 80 feet? That's not a buddy, that's a solo diver.

> By the time he gets to you, he goes straight for your primary regulator
> because you're supposed to breath from the secondary combo. But you may
> not be ready for him to yank the primary from your
> mouth.

Why aren't you ready? You had time to see him coming, right?

> Now you're freaking out also . . .

Why are you freaking out? Isn't this what you planned for when you bought
your alternate?

> . . . you grab your snorkel, computer, or whatever else you can find
> before finally getting the secondary combo in your mouth - at which point
> you immediately suck in a lung full of salt water. If you don't
> routinely check out your secondary maybe it doesn't even work.

This is not a reason to carry a regular octopus, it's a reason to keep your
equipment in good shape and test it before every dive.

> Of course none of this happens if everyone keeps their head. And I'm sure
> there are other situations where a combo is better. But this one reason
> really swayed me to go the more traditional secondary route.

Actually, I'm not sure there are times when a combination unit is better.
Sure, it reduces the number of hoses just a bit, but that's about it. There
aren't many disadvantages, but there are some. There's only one advantage
and, for most divers, the balance comes out in favor of a separate
alternate. For some, it comes out that other way. That's OK too.

Lee

"HappyFunBoater" wrote

> Image you and your buddy at 80ft. Your buddy is 50ft away when he runs
> out of air, beginning the process of freaking out and turning blue.

50 feet away at 80 feet? That's not a buddy, that's a solo diver.

> By the time he gets to you, he goes straight for your primary regulator
> because you're supposed to breath from the secondary combo. But you may
> not be ready for him to yank the primary from your
> mouth.

Why aren't you ready? You had time to see him coming, right?

> Now you're freaking out also . . .

Why are you freaking out? Isn't this what you planned for when you bought
your alternate?

> . . . you grab your snorkel, computer, or whatever else you can find
> before finally getting the secondary combo in your mouth - at which point
> you immediately suck in a lung full of salt water. If you don't
> routinely check out your secondary maybe it doesn't even work.

This is not a reason to carry a regular octopus, it's a reason to keep your
equipment in good shape and test it before every dive.

> Of course none of this happens if everyone keeps their head. And I'm sure
> there are other situations where a combo is better. But this one reason
> really swayed me to go the more traditional secondary route.

Actually, I'm not sure there are times when a combination unit is better.
Sure, it reduces the number of hoses just a bit, but that's about it. There
aren't many disadvantages, but there are some. There's only one advantage
and, for most divers, the balance comes out in favor of a separate
alternate. For some, it comes out that other way. That's OK too.

Lee

"Mick" wrote

> Alan Street wrote:
>> I had a Sherwood Shadow for a long time, but the one time I really had
>> to use it I discovered the limitations of it.
>
> And I get to learn from your mistake. Bonus! :)
>
> Seriously, I can understand the desirability of having fewer hoses
> hanging around, but if convenience compromises safety or functionality,
> then it becomes less desirable, at least in my mind.

Your mind is the one that counts relative to your equipment. Everything is
a trade off of some sort. Some like the combiantion alternate, some find
other options more suitable. Neither is a bad chioce for open water diving.
There are reasons for other choices for other environments.

>> ultimately I decided that the better system was to use a necklaced
>> backup (and a long hose).

> Necklaced? Please, don't tell me that you tie the hose around your
> neck. :)

You really are new to this. The setup Alan is talking about is often
referred to as DIR. The DIR concept goes way beyond just a necklaced
alternate and long hose, a 5 to 7 foot long hose, but for our purposes here,
focus on only that portion of the system. Not only does he tie the
alternate hose around his neck, he wraps the long one around his neck as
well. I know it sounds wierd, but it not only works, it is generally
considered better than any other system for diving in confined spaces,
wrecks and caves, for instance. Most of the people in this discussion have
at least tried this sysgtem and many are still using it, even for their open
water diving. While I, at least temporarily, have given up the long hose,
my alternate, like Alan's, is necklaced, tied, around my neck.

Lee

"Mick" wrote

> Alan Street wrote:
>> I had a Sherwood Shadow for a long time, but the one time I really had
>> to use it I discovered the limitations of it.
>
> And I get to learn from your mistake. Bonus! :)
>
> Seriously, I can understand the desirability of having fewer hoses
> hanging around, but if convenience compromises safety or functionality,
> then it becomes less desirable, at least in my mind.

Your mind is the one that counts relative to your equipment. Everything is
a trade off of some sort. Some like the combiantion alternate, some find
other options more suitable. Neither is a bad chioce for open water diving.
There are reasons for other choices for other environments.

>> ultimately I decided that the better system was to use a necklaced
>> backup (and a long hose).

> Necklaced? Please, don't tell me that you tie the hose around your
> neck. :)

You really are new to this. The setup Alan is talking about is often
referred to as DIR. The DIR concept goes way beyond just a necklaced
alternate and long hose, a 5 to 7 foot long hose, but for our purposes here,
focus on only that portion of the system. Not only does he tie the
alternate hose around his neck, he wraps the long one around his neck as
well. I know it sounds wierd, but it not only works, it is generally
considered better than any other system for diving in confined spaces,
wrecks and caves, for instance. Most of the people in this discussion have
at least tried this sysgtem and many are still using it, even for their open
water diving. While I, at least temporarily, have given up the long hose,
my alternate, like Alan's, is necklaced, tied, around my neck.

Lee