Inflator-integrated octopus

"Mick" wrote

> Okay, you can keep it in your mouth while adding air to the BC, but can
> you breathe normally at the same time?

> Is there any way that air from the BC could be inhaled by the diver
> accidentally, maybe by pushing the deflate button?

Yes, you can breathe and fill your BC at the same time. On most units, it
would be hard to breathe air from the BCD by accident and impossible to do
it by pressing the fill button.

The low pressure hose, with gas at about 140 psi over ambient, is pushing
gas into the second stage demand valve and into the inflator valve. When
you breathe in, the demand valve opens and gives you gas. When you push
the inflation button, the valve channels gas to the BCD. The two pathways
are separate and, unless you can suck at more than 140 psi (forget it, you
can't even come close), it would not be possible for you to accidentally
breathe gas from the BCD.

On most combination units, but I don't think all, the manual fill
mouthpiece and the breathing mouthpiece are separated, making it impossible
to accidentally breathe gas from the BCD as you deflate it. On these units,
you would have to physically remove one moutpiece and put in a second, very
differently shaped one, to breathe the gas in your BCD which, by the way,
you might want to do some day if out of gas on a solo dive.

> I'm trying to get an idea of how these things work.

Good idea.

Lee

"Mick" wrote

> Okay, you can keep it in your mouth while adding air to the BC, but can
> you breathe normally at the same time?

> Is there any way that air from the BC could be inhaled by the diver
> accidentally, maybe by pushing the deflate button?

Yes, you can breathe and fill your BC at the same time. On most units, it
would be hard to breathe air from the BCD by accident and impossible to do
it by pressing the fill button.

The low pressure hose, with gas at about 140 psi over ambient, is pushing
gas into the second stage demand valve and into the inflator valve. When
you breathe in, the demand valve opens and gives you gas. When you push
the inflation button, the valve channels gas to the BCD. The two pathways
are separate and, unless you can suck at more than 140 psi (forget it, you
can't even come close), it would not be possible for you to accidentally
breathe gas from the BCD.

On most combination units, but I don't think all, the manual fill
mouthpiece and the breathing mouthpiece are separated, making it impossible
to accidentally breathe gas from the BCD as you deflate it. On these units,
you would have to physically remove one moutpiece and put in a second, very
differently shaped one, to breathe the gas in your BCD which, by the way,
you might want to do some day if out of gas on a solo dive.

> I'm trying to get an idea of how these things work.

Good idea.

Lee

"Mick" wrote

> HappyFunBoater wrote:
>> Of course none of this happens if everyone keeps their head.
>
> And we all know how calm most people are in an emergency. :)

You might be surprised. I can tell you from experience, that I'm quite calm
in an emergency. I also tell you from experience that several other people
in this forum, people who I have been diving with enough to know, are also
quite calm in an emergency. There are a few that, from second hand
knowledge, I would trust to be quite calm in an emergency.

There are, however, more than a few that aren't calm in an emergency. Try
not to be with one of them in an emergency situation.

Lee

"Mick" wrote

> HappyFunBoater wrote:
>> Of course none of this happens if everyone keeps their head.
>
> And we all know how calm most people are in an emergency. :)

You might be surprised. I can tell you from experience, that I'm quite calm
in an emergency. I also tell you from experience that several other people
in this forum, people who I have been diving with enough to know, are also
quite calm in an emergency. There are a few that, from second hand
knowledge, I would trust to be quite calm in an emergency.

There are, however, more than a few that aren't calm in an emergency. Try
not to be with one of them in an emergency situation.

Lee

In article <1136357424.173563.96830@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups. com>, Mick
<micknewton@direcway.com> wrote:

€ Alan Street wrote:
€ > I had a Sherwood Shadow for a long time, but the one time I really had
€ > to use it I discovered the limitations of it.
€
€ And I get to learn from your mistake. Bonus! :)
€
€ Seriously, I can understand the desirability of having fewer hoses
€ hanging around, but if convenience compromises safety or functionality,
€ then it becomes less desirable, at least in my mind.
€

No argument. To me, the attraction of using an inflator mounted backup
was the logic that in an OOA situation, you donate the regulator that a
panicked diver is going to take anyway (that bubbling thing that's in
your mouth) and switch to a back-up that's under your control. Reduced
clutter is is a side benefit of the inflator mounted configuration.
After finding the drawbacks of the inflator mounted backup, I wanted a
configuration that retained the benefit of donating the primary, but
without the drawback of melding buoyancy control into the backup
system. The DIR configuration made a lot of sense, and that's what I've
been diving with for the last five years.

Having said that, my daughter has an A.I.R. 2 and loves it. She has a
BC with multiple dump valves, and has made entire dives breathing off
the backup without any problems (although she's been known to put up
with a less-than-ideal situation just to make a point .


€ > ultimately I decided that the better system was to use a necklaced
€ > backup (and a long hose).
€
€ Necklaced? Please, don't tell me that you tie the hose around your
€ neck. :)
€

Well, not the back-up's hose

Here's an example (note that this is not necessarily an endorsement of
Halcyon, just DIR-L).



http://halcyon.net/mc/harness.shtml

In article <1136357424.173563.96830@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups. com>, Mick
<micknewton@direcway.com> wrote:

€ Alan Street wrote:
€ > I had a Sherwood Shadow for a long time, but the one time I really had
€ > to use it I discovered the limitations of it.
€
€ And I get to learn from your mistake. Bonus! :)
€
€ Seriously, I can understand the desirability of having fewer hoses
€ hanging around, but if convenience compromises safety or functionality,
€ then it becomes less desirable, at least in my mind.
€

No argument. To me, the attraction of using an inflator mounted backup
was the logic that in an OOA situation, you donate the regulator that a
panicked diver is going to take anyway (that bubbling thing that's in
your mouth) and switch to a back-up that's under your control. Reduced
clutter is is a side benefit of the inflator mounted configuration.
After finding the drawbacks of the inflator mounted backup, I wanted a
configuration that retained the benefit of donating the primary, but
without the drawback of melding buoyancy control into the backup
system. The DIR configuration made a lot of sense, and that's what I've
been diving with for the last five years.

Having said that, my daughter has an A.I.R. 2 and loves it. She has a
BC with multiple dump valves, and has made entire dives breathing off
the backup without any problems (although she's been known to put up
with a less-than-ideal situation just to make a point .


€ > ultimately I decided that the better system was to use a necklaced
€ > backup (and a long hose).
€
€ Necklaced? Please, don't tell me that you tie the hose around your
€ neck. :)
€

Well, not the back-up's hose

Here's an example (note that this is not necessarily an endorsement of
Halcyon, just DIR-L).



http://halcyon.net/mc/harness.shtml

How easy could it be to control your buoyancy during an emergency ascent
with either your combo in your mouth or your buddy's mouth? You're holding
your buddy's BCD, sharing air and trying to deflate your BCD with a combo
that is in someone's mouth. This all seems too dangerous for my liking. I'll
stick to the separate octopus. Personal preference? Certainly, but it just
seems easier and safer. You want as few complications as possible in an
emergency situation.
Plus, I've never seen a brightly coloured combo inflator hose before. All
the ones I've seen are black. In low vis situations, it might be hard to
spot.

DS

"HappyFunBoater" <ttreadway@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:_yGuf.3631$bd.1046@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
>I almost got a combo inflator-secondary to reduce the amount of "stuff"
>hanging off me, but was convinced not to for this one reason:
>
> Image you and your buddy at 80ft. Your buddy is 50ft away when he runs
> out of air, beginning the process of freaking out and turning blue. By
> the time he gets to you, he goes straight for your primary regulator
> because you're supposed to breath from the secondary combo. But you may
> not be ready for him to yank the primary from your mouth. Now you're
> freaking out also, you grab your snorkel, computer, or whatever else you
> can find before finally getting the secondary combo in your mouth - at
> which point you immediately suck in a lung full of salt water. If you
> don't routinely check out your secondary maybe it doesn't even work. Now
> there are two people freaking out.
>
> Of course none of this happens if everyone keeps their head. And I'm sure
> there are other situations where a combo is better. But this one reason
> really swayed me to go the more traditional secondary route.
>
>
> "Mick" <micknewton@direcway.com> wrote in message
> news:1136338391.393685.217680@g43g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>> If you have an inflator-integrated secondary air source, can you adjust
>> your bouyancy and breath through the octopus at the same time, or do
>> you have to take it out of your mouth to adjust your bouyancy?
>>
>> Is it better (easier or safer) to have your octopus seperate from your
>> BC inflator?
>>
>
>

How easy could it be to control your buoyancy during an emergency ascent
with either your combo in your mouth or your buddy's mouth? You're holding
your buddy's BCD, sharing air and trying to deflate your BCD with a combo
that is in someone's mouth. This all seems too dangerous for my liking. I'll
stick to the separate octopus. Personal preference? Certainly, but it just
seems easier and safer. You want as few complications as possible in an
emergency situation.
Plus, I've never seen a brightly coloured combo inflator hose before. All
the ones I've seen are black. In low vis situations, it might be hard to
spot.

DS

"HappyFunBoater" <ttreadway@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:_yGuf.3631$bd.1046@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
>I almost got a combo inflator-secondary to reduce the amount of "stuff"
>hanging off me, but was convinced not to for this one reason:
>
> Image you and your buddy at 80ft. Your buddy is 50ft away when he runs
> out of air, beginning the process of freaking out and turning blue. By
> the time he gets to you, he goes straight for your primary regulator
> because you're supposed to breath from the secondary combo. But you may
> not be ready for him to yank the primary from your mouth. Now you're
> freaking out also, you grab your snorkel, computer, or whatever else you
> can find before finally getting the secondary combo in your mouth - at
> which point you immediately suck in a lung full of salt water. If you
> don't routinely check out your secondary maybe it doesn't even work. Now
> there are two people freaking out.
>
> Of course none of this happens if everyone keeps their head. And I'm sure
> there are other situations where a combo is better. But this one reason
> really swayed me to go the more traditional secondary route.
>
>
> "Mick" <micknewton@direcway.com> wrote in message
> news:1136338391.393685.217680@g43g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>> If you have an inflator-integrated secondary air source, can you adjust
>> your bouyancy and breath through the octopus at the same time, or do
>> you have to take it out of your mouth to adjust your bouyancy?
>>
>> Is it better (easier or safer) to have your octopus seperate from your
>> BC inflator?
>>
>
>

Alan Street wrote:
> Having said that, my daughter has an A.I.R. 2 and loves it. She has a
> BC with multiple dump valves, and has made entire dives breathing off
> the backup without any problems (although she's been known to put up
> with a less-than-ideal situation just to make a point .

Sounds like my daughter. :)


> Well, not the back-up's hose
>
> Here's an example (note that this is not necessarily an endorsement of
> Halcyon, just DIR-L).

So, the hose comes up under your right arm, across your chest, then
around behind your neck and over your right sholder, correct? Is this
what you meant by necklaced?

It looks like a practical way of dealing with a really long hose.

Alan Street wrote:
> Having said that, my daughter has an A.I.R. 2 and loves it. She has a
> BC with multiple dump valves, and has made entire dives breathing off
> the backup without any problems (although she's been known to put up
> with a less-than-ideal situation just to make a point .

Sounds like my daughter. :)


> Well, not the back-up's hose
>
> Here's an example (note that this is not necessarily an endorsement of
> Halcyon, just DIR-L).

So, the hose comes up under your right arm, across your chest, then
around behind your neck and over your right sholder, correct? Is this
what you meant by necklaced?

It looks like a practical way of dealing with a really long hose.