Din or Yoke

"TonyP" wrote in message news:ah1Mf.59$nM6.23@fe09.lga...
> I would LOVE to see one of those 12volt pumpers fill anything up to that
> pressure rating! Might take "days" to do it. :)

I had a 20# BBQ propane tank that I used as a portable air tank for filling
the tires on my plane... One day I decided to try filling it from the 120
psi of my shop compressor the rating on the 12V compressor... It overheated
and quit running long before it had come anywhere near its supposed pressure
rating...

"TonyP" wrote in message news:ah1Mf.59$nM6.23@fe09.lga...
> I would LOVE to see one of those 12volt pumpers fill anything up to that
> pressure rating! Might take "days" to do it. :)

I had a 20# BBQ propane tank that I used as a portable air tank for filling
the tires on my plane... One day I decided to try filling it from the 120
psi of my shop compressor the rating on the 12V compressor... It overheated
and quit running long before it had come anywhere near its supposed pressure
rating...

But if the police catches a speed-limit violater, they don't sew the
car-dealer nor the car-manufacturer!

"John Cassara" <jcassara@optonline.net> schreef in bericht
news:GGYLf.5792$Ry.1830@fe12.lga...
>
>>
>> It's intended use is indicated right on the compressor and it's not to
>> overfill tanks. How is it any different from our national speed limit of
>> 70, and cars that will all go faster than that.
>>
>> Lee
>
> The roads are policed and some of the violators are caught in an attempt
> to curtail speeders. Who are the scuba police, the industry is its own
> police. My local dive shops will sell anything to anyone EXCEPT air. No
> cert card no air. That is a policing. The equipment should be designed to
> operate at its max rating. The compressor should be setup with 300bar din
> and the operator then can choose to use an adapter to fill a yoke tank.
> The operator then assumes the responsibility to operated the equipment
> properly and safely.
>
> John
>

But if the police catches a speed-limit violater, they don't sew the
car-dealer nor the car-manufacturer!

"John Cassara" <jcassara@optonline.net> schreef in bericht
news:GGYLf.5792$Ry.1830@fe12.lga...
>
>>
>> It's intended use is indicated right on the compressor and it's not to
>> overfill tanks. How is it any different from our national speed limit of
>> 70, and cars that will all go faster than that.
>>
>> Lee
>
> The roads are policed and some of the violators are caught in an attempt
> to curtail speeders. Who are the scuba police, the industry is its own
> police. My local dive shops will sell anything to anyone EXCEPT air. No
> cert card no air. That is a policing. The equipment should be designed to
> operate at its max rating. The compressor should be setup with 300bar din
> and the operator then can choose to use an adapter to fill a yoke tank.
> The operator then assumes the responsibility to operated the equipment
> properly and safely.
>
> John
>

"John Cassara" wrote

> Hey Tony.........all this blab and as you know I dive yoke at
> 3400psi........Things should just be put together right.

So do I, but my yokes are rated for pressures well above that. Many aren't.

>>>>For your compressor analogy to work you will need to replace the hose
>>>>and
>>>>fitting you use to fill your tires with those from a bicycle pump and
>>>>then run the compressor at its full rating. And remember your compressor
>>>>is
>>>>designed to do more than fill tires. Good Luck

I put a fitting on the hose designed for fill tires.
The compressor runs at its full rating whenever it's running. it's up to me
whether or not I use the full capacity on a tire.
A dive compressor is designed to do more than just fill tanks. They're used
for hydro testing too.

>> I would LOVE to see one of those 12volt pumpers fill anything up to that
>> pressure rating! Might take "days" to do it. :)

I'd like to see one that would reach it's advertised capacity. The one in
the back of my car does the 50 psi I use on my trailer tires easily. I'm
not sure that it would do the 100 psi one of my bicycles prefers.

Lee

"John Cassara" wrote

> Hey Tony.........all this blab and as you know I dive yoke at
> 3400psi........Things should just be put together right.

So do I, but my yokes are rated for pressures well above that. Many aren't.

>>>>For your compressor analogy to work you will need to replace the hose
>>>>and
>>>>fitting you use to fill your tires with those from a bicycle pump and
>>>>then run the compressor at its full rating. And remember your compressor
>>>>is
>>>>designed to do more than fill tires. Good Luck

I put a fitting on the hose designed for fill tires.
The compressor runs at its full rating whenever it's running. it's up to me
whether or not I use the full capacity on a tire.
A dive compressor is designed to do more than just fill tanks. They're used
for hydro testing too.

>> I would LOVE to see one of those 12volt pumpers fill anything up to that
>> pressure rating! Might take "days" to do it. :)

I'd like to see one that would reach it's advertised capacity. The one in
the back of my car does the 50 psi I use on my trailer tires easily. I'm
not sure that it would do the 100 psi one of my bicycles prefers.

Lee

In article <UzgMf.46239$bW.42066@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, pleebell2
@bellsouth.net says...
> A dive compressor is designed to do more than just fill tanks. They're used
> for hydro testing too.

Hydro testing is done with water, and they use a pump that works
something like a Haskel.

In article <UzgMf.46239$bW.42066@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, pleebell2
@bellsouth.net says...
> A dive compressor is designed to do more than just fill tanks. They're used
> for hydro testing too.

Hydro testing is done with water, and they use a pump that works
something like a Haskel.

"John Cassara" wrote

> And to get back to the car / speed thing. How about you decide you would
> prefer a set of tires for your new car that came off a John Deer Lawn
> tractor. So your dealer goes ahead and in stalls them. Now why don't you
> give that car to your wife or son or daughter, who is of legal age and
> licensed to drive. Are you secure in the fact the will operate it safely?

Yes. We do it down here all the time. Usually, we call them Swamp Buggies
and don't drive them on hard pavement. It tears the expensive tires up way
too fast.

This, however, is not the same thing. What you describe is my choice on how
to use the product. Whether I make a good choice or not is my business as
long as the dealer makes sure he's informed me what the recommended use is.

> Will you take the stand, "The dealer didn't have a problem with it after
> all he installed them"

Yes, as a matter of fact, I would.

> NO you wouldn't . . .

Do you always ask a question and then answer it yourself. It's not a great
idea. You risk getting the answer wrong, as you did this time.

> So why would you want a set-up that could fail if not micromanaged that
> could result in injuring some one.

Because it's more versatile? Most things I use on a daily basis are desiged
to do things that I will never use them for. Many times the extra capacity
means that the device strains less at it's normal use levels. Sometimes it
means that I can find new and interesting things to do with a device I
purchased for a different purpose.

As for micromanaging, if you're not going to closely monitor your tank
filling process, I'd prefer you not fill tanks at all. After all, you might
sue me for selling you a device that, even after telling you to be careful,
you chose to use irresponsibly.

> If the output of the system is 4000 psi then all aspects of the equipment
> should be rated at that pressure or there should be a passive limiter that
> would govern down the pressure to match the weakest link.

I certainly agree that a valve that allows one to limit the maximum pressure
that goes into a tank is an advantage. If it were my compressor, I'd have
one. I am not, however, prepared to require the same for everyone. As long
as there are ways to use a compressor without such a limiter, it's not my
business to deny others the right to their choice.

The weakest link in most US tanks is the burst disk in the valve, followed
by the O ring that seals the connection, followed by the tank itself. Burst
disks and O rings are designed to fail without catastrophic results. It's
up to the user to use a tank in a manner that is safe. In the US, rated
pressures range from about 2,500 psi to 3,500 psi. My yoke connector is
stamped with a 3,500 psi rating. It's safe to use on any tank I own (3,000
psi to 3,500 psi ratings) and almost certainly strong enough to withstand
the 4,000 psi rating of the compressor in question. I'm not certain that
all of my tanks would survive as well. Perhaps if I were so foolish as to
take a tank clearly marked for 2,500 psi and fill it to 4,000 psi, I might
also be so foolish as to think that the guy that sold me the compressor
capable of that pressure, who told me how to use it safely, might be
somewhat responsible for my doing what he specifically told was not safe.
Lucky for the retailer, I'm not that foolish. Unfortunately for everybody,
some juries are. That's one of the reasons businesses incorporate and carry
insurance.

>>>> Have you considered that the compressor might be used to do a hydro
>>>> test?<<

>> OK Lets all stand around and pump 5000+ psi through a yoke to do a hydro
>> test.

You can do that if you like. If you do, it's not the fault of the guy that
sold you the compressor. That's the point.
Personally, I'd use a different hose for my hydro test than I used for
filling tanks, but I might use the same compressor.

Your example isn't valid anyway. The compressor we're talking about has a
pressure rating of 4,000 psi. That's not the 5,000 you mention. In the US,
they sell tanks rated as low as 2,400 psi. That's the only tank you could
effectively hydro test with a 4,000 psi compressor. While that's a bit
above the rated 3,500 psi pressure for my yoke connectors, it's not so far
above that I think a failure is likely. It's not the kind of thing I would
chose myself, but it's probably quite safe.

Lee

"John Cassara" wrote

> And to get back to the car / speed thing. How about you decide you would
> prefer a set of tires for your new car that came off a John Deer Lawn
> tractor. So your dealer goes ahead and in stalls them. Now why don't you
> give that car to your wife or son or daughter, who is of legal age and
> licensed to drive. Are you secure in the fact the will operate it safely?

Yes. We do it down here all the time. Usually, we call them Swamp Buggies
and don't drive them on hard pavement. It tears the expensive tires up way
too fast.

This, however, is not the same thing. What you describe is my choice on how
to use the product. Whether I make a good choice or not is my business as
long as the dealer makes sure he's informed me what the recommended use is.

> Will you take the stand, "The dealer didn't have a problem with it after
> all he installed them"

Yes, as a matter of fact, I would.

> NO you wouldn't . . .

Do you always ask a question and then answer it yourself. It's not a great
idea. You risk getting the answer wrong, as you did this time.

> So why would you want a set-up that could fail if not micromanaged that
> could result in injuring some one.

Because it's more versatile? Most things I use on a daily basis are desiged
to do things that I will never use them for. Many times the extra capacity
means that the device strains less at it's normal use levels. Sometimes it
means that I can find new and interesting things to do with a device I
purchased for a different purpose.

As for micromanaging, if you're not going to closely monitor your tank
filling process, I'd prefer you not fill tanks at all. After all, you might
sue me for selling you a device that, even after telling you to be careful,
you chose to use irresponsibly.

> If the output of the system is 4000 psi then all aspects of the equipment
> should be rated at that pressure or there should be a passive limiter that
> would govern down the pressure to match the weakest link.

I certainly agree that a valve that allows one to limit the maximum pressure
that goes into a tank is an advantage. If it were my compressor, I'd have
one. I am not, however, prepared to require the same for everyone. As long
as there are ways to use a compressor without such a limiter, it's not my
business to deny others the right to their choice.

The weakest link in most US tanks is the burst disk in the valve, followed
by the O ring that seals the connection, followed by the tank itself. Burst
disks and O rings are designed to fail without catastrophic results. It's
up to the user to use a tank in a manner that is safe. In the US, rated
pressures range from about 2,500 psi to 3,500 psi. My yoke connector is
stamped with a 3,500 psi rating. It's safe to use on any tank I own (3,000
psi to 3,500 psi ratings) and almost certainly strong enough to withstand
the 4,000 psi rating of the compressor in question. I'm not certain that
all of my tanks would survive as well. Perhaps if I were so foolish as to
take a tank clearly marked for 2,500 psi and fill it to 4,000 psi, I might
also be so foolish as to think that the guy that sold me the compressor
capable of that pressure, who told me how to use it safely, might be
somewhat responsible for my doing what he specifically told was not safe.
Lucky for the retailer, I'm not that foolish. Unfortunately for everybody,
some juries are. That's one of the reasons businesses incorporate and carry
insurance.

>>>> Have you considered that the compressor might be used to do a hydro
>>>> test?<<

>> OK Lets all stand around and pump 5000+ psi through a yoke to do a hydro
>> test.

You can do that if you like. If you do, it's not the fault of the guy that
sold you the compressor. That's the point.
Personally, I'd use a different hose for my hydro test than I used for
filling tanks, but I might use the same compressor.

Your example isn't valid anyway. The compressor we're talking about has a
pressure rating of 4,000 psi. That's not the 5,000 you mention. In the US,
they sell tanks rated as low as 2,400 psi. That's the only tank you could
effectively hydro test with a 4,000 psi compressor. While that's a bit
above the rated 3,500 psi pressure for my yoke connectors, it's not so far
above that I think a failure is likely. It's not the kind of thing I would
chose myself, but it's probably quite safe.

Lee