Question re: BCD, regulator, weights

bullshark wrote

> Gee, ascending neutral. Why the fuck didn't I think of that?
> How do you do that? Do you have to dump air as you ascend?
> How do you do that if your inflator/regulator is in your mouth?

Push the button? When vertical, as I would be when assisting an OOA diver
to the surface, my mouth is above my wing.

Failing that, there's always the shoulder dump which is pretty easy to pull
even with the regulator in your mouth.

I don't know why you're getting excited about his response. I'm quite sure
you'd find a way to ascend neutral or near neutral in the situation you
described. It's probably not so easy for those that dive with a lot of
weight, but it's pretty simple for those of us that stick to warm water.

Lee

bullshark wrote

> Gee, ascending neutral. Why the fuck didn't I think of that?
> How do you do that? Do you have to dump air as you ascend?
> How do you do that if your inflator/regulator is in your mouth?

Push the button? When vertical, as I would be when assisting an OOA diver
to the surface, my mouth is above my wing.

Failing that, there's always the shoulder dump which is pretty easy to pull
even with the regulator in your mouth.

I don't know why you're getting excited about his response. I'm quite sure
you'd find a way to ascend neutral or near neutral in the situation you
described. It's probably not so easy for those that dive with a lot of
weight, but it's pretty simple for those of us that stick to warm water.

Lee

Danlw wrote

> I have one on that old steel 72 in my garage that you saw.
> Bit old, but works. The 72 is a bit small though :) Dan

In the old, pre 80 days, we did dives of "about an hour" on 72s. These
days, with our 80 cubic foot tanks, we are now do dives of "about an hour."

With an 80 cubic foot, 3,000 psi tank (assumes the tank really is 80 cubic
feet), returning to the surface with 500 psi reserve (a common requirement
by dive operators) gives you about 67 cubic feet of gas for the dive, the
same as you get from a 72 at 2650 if you return to the surface with 185 psi.
185 psi, roughly 5 cubic feet of gas, is enough for the average diver (.5
cf/min SAC) to do a 7 minute safety stop at 15 feet. If a safety stop of 7
extra minutes won't get you to the surface safely, you've got dive planning
problems you can't solve with a slightly larger tank.

For the most part, the difference between an 80 and a 72 is the comfort of
the diver operator and his insurance company. They get to impose a larger
safety margin. 8^)

Lee

Danlw wrote

> I have one on that old steel 72 in my garage that you saw.
> Bit old, but works. The 72 is a bit small though :) Dan

In the old, pre 80 days, we did dives of "about an hour" on 72s. These
days, with our 80 cubic foot tanks, we are now do dives of "about an hour."

With an 80 cubic foot, 3,000 psi tank (assumes the tank really is 80 cubic
feet), returning to the surface with 500 psi reserve (a common requirement
by dive operators) gives you about 67 cubic feet of gas for the dive, the
same as you get from a 72 at 2650 if you return to the surface with 185 psi.
185 psi, roughly 5 cubic feet of gas, is enough for the average diver (.5
cf/min SAC) to do a 7 minute safety stop at 15 feet. If a safety stop of 7
extra minutes won't get you to the surface safely, you've got dive planning
problems you can't solve with a slightly larger tank.

For the most part, the difference between an 80 and a 72 is the comfort of
the diver operator and his insurance company. They get to impose a larger
safety margin. 8^)

Lee

bullshark wrote:
>
> They aren't. Some are good. BOB is SP KnightHawk. The *new* DiveRites
> are also good. DiveRite used to have horrible I-weight. The New system
> is as good as or better than the SP.

But they still can be pretty bulky. I find that with my Knighthawk is
so, plus its back inflation combined with the mass of my UW Camera held
in front of me is fine on a dive, but on the surface, it rocks me
forward (face down) much more than I like. Next time I'll be diving,
I'll have a new weight pouch on my tank strap to try to move my CG even
further back. Since I'm already not using the weight pouches and its
pockets suck, I'm debating if there's an easy and non-destructive way
to make an insert to convert the weight pouch pockets into regular
pockets.


> Weight belts don't cost much to dump. They don't have expensive parts
> that need replacement. They don't make your gear heavy while you change
> tanks.

And you can also position a few pounds in the small of your back, which
puts them further rearward than the typical integrated BC pocket's
location.


> Last, but not least, this is technically a rescue situation. If any
> buoyancy needs managing, you manage your victims inflator, and your BC
> is empty. Two people managing buoyancy on ascent (one or both of which
> is panicked) is a recipe for trouble. Dump yours, manage theirs. Keep
> their inflator button out of their hands. It looks just like an "Up"
> button to them and they're out of air.

Historically, this is more likely due to too many attempted rescuers
getting themselves to the surface without their victim, where they then
have to live with (and try to explain) how the negatively buoyant
victim "slipped away from them".

By making the victim buoyant, if there's rescuer/victim separation, the
victim floats up due to physics alone. This might result in a bad
rapid ascent and additional health problems, but it is the lesser evil
in comparison to the alternative of sinking and thus being lost to the
depths where death is a virtual certainty.


-hh

bullshark wrote:
>
> They aren't. Some are good. BOB is SP KnightHawk. The *new* DiveRites
> are also good. DiveRite used to have horrible I-weight. The New system
> is as good as or better than the SP.

But they still can be pretty bulky. I find that with my Knighthawk is
so, plus its back inflation combined with the mass of my UW Camera held
in front of me is fine on a dive, but on the surface, it rocks me
forward (face down) much more than I like. Next time I'll be diving,
I'll have a new weight pouch on my tank strap to try to move my CG even
further back. Since I'm already not using the weight pouches and its
pockets suck, I'm debating if there's an easy and non-destructive way
to make an insert to convert the weight pouch pockets into regular
pockets.


> Weight belts don't cost much to dump. They don't have expensive parts
> that need replacement. They don't make your gear heavy while you change
> tanks.

And you can also position a few pounds in the small of your back, which
puts them further rearward than the typical integrated BC pocket's
location.


> Last, but not least, this is technically a rescue situation. If any
> buoyancy needs managing, you manage your victims inflator, and your BC
> is empty. Two people managing buoyancy on ascent (one or both of which
> is panicked) is a recipe for trouble. Dump yours, manage theirs. Keep
> their inflator button out of their hands. It looks just like an "Up"
> button to them and they're out of air.

Historically, this is more likely due to too many attempted rescuers
getting themselves to the surface without their victim, where they then
have to live with (and try to explain) how the negatively buoyant
victim "slipped away from them".

By making the victim buoyant, if there's rescuer/victim separation, the
victim floats up due to physics alone. This might result in a bad
rapid ascent and additional health problems, but it is the lesser evil
in comparison to the alternative of sinking and thus being lost to the
depths where death is a virtual certainty.


-hh

I have both. My BCD is an older type with velcro. Very easy to remove and
put the weights in. Never used soft pouch weights, but I imagine they would
be able to be used. I also have a spare air and not an octopus. Works
extreamly well and would probably never fo back to an octopus wetup (no
desire to do cave or wreck diving). Just make sure that you explain to who
ever your buddy is how the system works in case of an emergency.

Dave
<sytech@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:090720062046385307%sytech@yahoo.com...
>
>
> I need some recommendations for equipment that I hope to buy in the
> near future for warm water diving. Excuse my newbie terminology.
>
> The BCD's with the pockets for weights "appear" to be easier to deal
> with than weight belts which I find to be a pain. I get the impression
> though, that you'd have to transport the weights to your diving
> location or do many places have weighted bags you can use?
>
> I am also interested in having the BCD include the octopus integrated
> into the BCD (on one's left side) instead of the typical right-side
> "dangling" octopus. Is there any downside to this type of octo and do
> you need to buy a specific type of BCD to include the integrated
> octopus or can you retrofit any BCD to become integrated with an
> octopus?
>
> Any advice will be appreciated.
>
> Sy
>
> --
> Please post and reply to sytech@yahoo.com

I have both. My BCD is an older type with velcro. Very easy to remove and
put the weights in. Never used soft pouch weights, but I imagine they would
be able to be used. I also have a spare air and not an octopus. Works
extreamly well and would probably never fo back to an octopus wetup (no
desire to do cave or wreck diving). Just make sure that you explain to who
ever your buddy is how the system works in case of an emergency.

Dave
<sytech@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:090720062046385307%sytech@yahoo.com...
>
>
> I need some recommendations for equipment that I hope to buy in the
> near future for warm water diving. Excuse my newbie terminology.
>
> The BCD's with the pockets for weights "appear" to be easier to deal
> with than weight belts which I find to be a pain. I get the impression
> though, that you'd have to transport the weights to your diving
> location or do many places have weighted bags you can use?
>
> I am also interested in having the BCD include the octopus integrated
> into the BCD (on one's left side) instead of the typical right-side
> "dangling" octopus. Is there any downside to this type of octo and do
> you need to buy a specific type of BCD to include the integrated
> octopus or can you retrofit any BCD to become integrated with an
> octopus?
>
> Any advice will be appreciated.
>
> Sy
>
> --
> Please post and reply to sytech@yahoo.com

Thus spake "D" <d@cox.net> :

>I have both. My BCD is an older type with velcro. Very easy to remove and
>put the weights in. Never used soft pouch weights, but I imagine they would
>be able to be used. I also have a spare air and not an octopus. Works
>extreamly well and would probably never fo back to an octopus wetup (no
>desire to do cave or wreck diving). Just make sure that you explain to who
>ever your buddy is how the system works in case of an emergency.

Can you make an ascent from 60 feet and safely make a 5 minute stop at
15 feet on a Spare Air? Thought not. Either get a pony or put the
octo on. Spare Air doesn't get you much. The Navy uses them for the
helicopter pilots, but that's about the only valid use I see for them.

>
>Dave
><sytech@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:090720062046385307%sytech@yahoo.com...
>>
>>
>> I need some recommendations for equipment that I hope to buy in the
>> near future for warm water diving. Excuse my newbie terminology.
>>
>> The BCD's with the pockets for weights "appear" to be easier to deal
>> with than weight belts which I find to be a pain. I get the impression
>> though, that you'd have to transport the weights to your diving
>> location or do many places have weighted bags you can use?
>>
>> I am also interested in having the BCD include the octopus integrated
>> into the BCD (on one's left side) instead of the typical right-side
>> "dangling" octopus. Is there any downside to this type of octo and do
>> you need to buy a specific type of BCD to include the integrated
>> octopus or can you retrofit any BCD to become integrated with an
>> octopus?
>>
>> Any advice will be appreciated.
>>
>> Sy
>>
>> --
>> Please post and reply to sytech@yahoo.com
>
--
dillon

JAFO

Thus spake "D" <d@cox.net> :

>I have both. My BCD is an older type with velcro. Very easy to remove and
>put the weights in. Never used soft pouch weights, but I imagine they would
>be able to be used. I also have a spare air and not an octopus. Works
>extreamly well and would probably never fo back to an octopus wetup (no
>desire to do cave or wreck diving). Just make sure that you explain to who
>ever your buddy is how the system works in case of an emergency.

Can you make an ascent from 60 feet and safely make a 5 minute stop at
15 feet on a Spare Air? Thought not. Either get a pony or put the
octo on. Spare Air doesn't get you much. The Navy uses them for the
helicopter pilots, but that's about the only valid use I see for them.

>
>Dave
><sytech@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:090720062046385307%sytech@yahoo.com...
>>
>>
>> I need some recommendations for equipment that I hope to buy in the
>> near future for warm water diving. Excuse my newbie terminology.
>>
>> The BCD's with the pockets for weights "appear" to be easier to deal
>> with than weight belts which I find to be a pain. I get the impression
>> though, that you'd have to transport the weights to your diving
>> location or do many places have weighted bags you can use?
>>
>> I am also interested in having the BCD include the octopus integrated
>> into the BCD (on one's left side) instead of the typical right-side
>> "dangling" octopus. Is there any downside to this type of octo and do
>> you need to buy a specific type of BCD to include the integrated
>> octopus or can you retrofit any BCD to become integrated with an
>> octopus?
>>
>> Any advice will be appreciated.
>>
>> Sy
>>
>> --
>> Please post and reply to sytech@yahoo.com
>
--
dillon

JAFO