Aeris Atmos 2 & help with computer choice

Galen Hekhuis wrote

>>I'm a certified scuba equipment technician,...
> So am I, and a certified tank inspector to boot. So what?

I'm certifiable.

Bullshark you a**hole. No sock-puppet here. Nothing false about me or my id.
Unlike some people that need to hide behind a name like Bullshark. What
department do you work in at Leisure Pro? Were you a one time dive shop
owner that got caught by a scuba equipment manufacturer selling to Leisure
Pro? Had your dealership yanked, and your shop go down the toilet?

Scuba equipment manufacturers are in the life support business. I don't know
about you, but I prefer to purchase my life support equipment from an
authorized dealer that checks the equipment before shipping it to a customer.
That's how the manufacturers assure their equipment is assembled and
operating properly before it is delivered to the customer. Authorized
dealers will assemble customer equipment and test it to make sure it is
within manufacturer's spec before the customer ever gets to 100' and finds
out the intermediate pressure is too low, the second stage free flows, or the
SPG is reading too high. A reputable authorized dealer will assemble the
customer's scuba package at no additional charge. Leisure Pro and other
internet sellers will sell you product, and ship it in the original boxes
unassembled.

I do not own a dive shop. The dive shop where I work part time is doing
exceptionally well. Its due to an excellent reputation for customer service,
fair prices, and knowledgeable friendly staff.

The shop does not charge for the computer class. It is free to customers who
purchase products. Equipment owners' manuals are not always very clear as to
how a feature works, and knowing that they can get a clear personal answer to
a specific question about their equipment makes a customer a safer diver for
themselves and their dive buddies. That's another value added feature
customers get from a reputable dealer that they will not get from Leisure Pro
or other unauthorized sellers. Let's see. The shop where I work also gives
free pool time to customers to try out their new equipment and its features
before they go on a dive. And once a month on a Sunday afternoon following
certification and other training dives there is a free cookout for all the
students to celebrate their accomplishments. Leisure Pro have a pool? A BBQ
grill? Certified technicians?

Aeris did have problems with its Model 750 GT hoseless air integrated
computer. The link between the transmitter and computer would fail. The
fault was generally with the transmitter. The problem was resolved with the
Eclipse Model.

Buying from an unauthorized dealer is buying on the "gray market".
Manufacturers' warraties are not honored. Buyer beware! End of story.
Authorized dealers are gived certificates and dealer numbers by the
manufacturers. As a customer, ask for it. Authorized dealers can generally
be found on the manufacturers' web sites. Bet you can't find Leisure Pro
listed as an authorized dealer on web sites belonging to Aeris, Atomic, Scuba
Pro, Zeagle, Aqua Lung, etc., etc., etc.

An owner doesn't always need a receipt to prove date of purchase. Scuba
equipment comes with owners manuals containing a page to record services
performed. An authorized dealer will complete the registration card, sign,
indicate the dealer and technician number, and date the service record when
the equipment is checked and sold.

Occasionally equipment does break under warranty. Nothing and nobody is
perfect. Including you. O rings fail, zippers break, etc. If the
manufacturers warranty is in effect, no problem. An authorized dealer will
fix it or replace it. Sometimes it's not a manufacturer problem, but rather
owner abuse or misuse. I've seen computers flood because the owner failed to
properly service the o ring and seal when they replace a battery. Guess what.
I'll fix that too if its under warranty.

And to answer your question. Yes, I know of a customer who brought a new BCD
on line. It would not hold air. I showed him where it was leaking at a
welded seam deep in the fold of the bladder. Not repairable. He contacted
the on line outfit where he purchased it at a "really good price", and was
told all sales were final.

So you just keep being a jacka** spewing advice on things you know little
about. I hope you never have a problem with "gray market" scuba equipment.
If you do, I hope we don't read about your demise in some scuba publication.



bullshark wrote:
>> I'm a certified scuba equipment technician,
>
>I'm a certified sock-puppet detector and you just pegged the meter.
>
>> and I teach a class in using Aeris dive computers.
>
>Nobody should need a class to use a dive computer, let alone a specific
>brand, how much do you charge for that?
>
>> Aeris makes excellent equipment now.
>
>If it needs a class from a "certified scuba equipment technician" (wtf
>is that, anyway) to be used, then it should be avoided at all costs.
>
>> Early models of their hoseless air integrated computers were problematic.
>
>No they weren't.
>
>>Don't purchase from Leisure Pro.
>
>Interpretation: "I own a dive shop and make my living charging 4x as
>much as Leisure pro for anything I sell - and I'm still going broke."
>
>OP: Buy from whomever you wish. Be sure to consider all costs and
>benefits, and do not under any circumstance try to use LP price to
>wedge the dive. These guys are notorious for self mutilation and
>unashamed of their business practices. When the prices are not too
>different, it's often a good idea to throw the dog a bone. They might
>do you a favor one day in the future. The only way to gain the favor of
>a dive shop is to give them some business.
>
>LP is the cats-ass but not always the best deal. Their greatest value
>to me is an indicator of reasonable pricing.
>
>>It is not an authorized Aeris dealer,
>
>Totally irrelevant. If they've got genuine goods, then they are
>authorized no matter what Aeris tells their dealers. You might want to
>google "Magnuson-Moss" and "Good Faith Purchase" and ask yourself if a
>buyer of genuine goods can be compelled to abide by arbitrary rules of
>compliance of which he has no knowledge. You should then ask yourself
>how a good faith purchaser of genuine product in a foreign country can
>possibly verify the authenticity of a sellers claims to be authorized.
>Do you really believe that the company can extend it's unreasonable
>policy requiring purchasers to comply with rules they don't know about
>to foreign countries?
>
>It is either genuine product, or it is not
>
>>and you will not get a warranty.
>
>Yes, he will. Some jack ass in dive shop may dishonor the warranty, but
>the manufacturer will not, especially where a dated product cannot
>possibly be out of warranty. They may or may not repair products that
>are grossly out of date, but alienating a genuine customer is generally
>not a desirable outcome, so most companies will be reasonable in this
>regard. Aeris doesn't want to gain the reputation of having their
>computers dying after 5 dives no matter how old it is. It doesn't
>promote future sales.
>
>Notwithstanding, Leisure Pro is known to stand behind the products they
>sell when necessary (unlike dive shops).
>
>>If you should have a problem with the computer, you will need to take it to an authorized Aeris dealer for repair.
>
>Are you saying that the computer will break during the warranty period?
>Is Aeris equipment that shabby? Generally speaking electronic stuff
>breaks in the first five minutes of life, or it doesn't break at all.
>Dive computers are usually calibrated, pressure tested, and chamber
>dived to verify operation, which all takes much longer than 5 minutes.
>So is it your position that Aeris is using crappy components and
>suppliers, or that their assembly process is unreliable and unsafe?
>
>> The dealer will ask to see the sales receipt to establish if the computer is still under the
>> manufacturer's 2 year warranty.
>
>Again, that is totally irrelevant, arbitrary and unnecessary.
>What if the computer was a gift?
>What if he lost the receipt?
>How can a buyer verify that an authorized dealer is really authorized?
>Are you aware that computers are serialized and date stamped at
>manufacture?
>
>If the computer needs repair because of a defect resulting in a recall
>(the only kind that matters) nobody looks for any receipts, checks any
>dates or asks any questions. All life genuine defects are serviced by
>manufacturers with no questions asked at their expense.
>
>The foregoing applies to all dive equipment from all manufacturers that
>I know of.

--
Thanks for visiting my Scuba Monster site. Please send me an email and tell
me what you think.

Regards and safe diving,
Joe

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jcondon26 via ScubaMonster.com wrote:
> Bullshark you a**hole. No sock-puppet here. Nothing false about me or my id.

[Yawn]

>Were you a one time dive shop
> owner that got caught by a scuba equipment manufacturer selling to Leisure
> Pro? Had your dealership yanked, and your shop go down the toilet?

That's it! You caught me. Actually I work for Leisure Pro *and* own a
dive shop selling them goods while
having lost my dealership to several others

<snip fairy tales about Dive Shop Heroics>

No manufacturer relies on Dive Shop Monkeys for quality assurance.
Nobody gives a flying fuck about your Sunday BBQ' for training victims.
None of the "features" you report are "free".
Genuine Product gets a guneuine warranty, skippy. that's why they put
it in the box.

BTW, this is how you spell "a**hole", ASSHOLE.

Show us how good your shop really is. Give us a name. Otherwise STFU
and STFD.

What has made you such an angry person? Medication and professional
counseling might help you get past whatever it is. Try it. It certainly
can't make you any worse.


bullshark wrote:
>> Bullshark you a**hole. No sock-puppet here. Nothing false about me or my id.
>
>[Yawn]
>
>>Were you a one time dive shop
>> owner that got caught by a scuba equipment manufacturer selling to Leisure
>> Pro? Had your dealership yanked, and your shop go down the toilet?
>
>That's it! You caught me. Actually I work for Leisure Pro *and* own a
>dive shop selling them goods while
>having lost my dealership to several others
>
><snip fairy tales about Dive Shop Heroics>
>
>No manufacturer relies on Dive Shop Monkeys for quality assurance.
>Nobody gives a flying fuck about your Sunday BBQ' for training victims.
>None of the "features" you report are "free".
>Genuine Product gets a guneuine warranty, skippy. that's why they put
>it in the box.
>
>BTW, this is how you spell "a**hole", ASSHOLE.
>
>Show us how good your shop really is. Give us a name. Otherwise STFU
>and STFD.

--
Thanks for visiting my Scuba Monster site. Please send me an email and tell
me what you think.

Regards and safe diving,
Joe

Message posted via ScubaMonster.com
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bullshark wrote

> BTW, this is how you spell "a**hole", ASSHOLE.

You know you're arguing with someone that includes rec.scuba posts on his
website as if they were his own, right?

> Show us how good your shop really is. Give us a name. Otherwise STFU and
> STFD.

In this case, probably not a bad idea, but this looks way too much like
something someone we once knew would say.

On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 04:53:19 +0000, jcondon26 via ScubaMonster.com wrote:
> A reputable authorized dealer will assemble the customer's scuba package
> at no additional charge. Leisure Pro and other internet sellers will
> sell you product, and ship it in the original boxes unassembled.

Well, some of us would argue that if a diver is too stupid to assemble his
own gear, he's too stupid to be diving anyway... There are others around
who have had their gear back from service and it worked worse than it did
prior to that... Things like the IP being set too high and the regulator
free flowing as soon as you hit the water...

I've seen it too. It's sad, dangerous, and there is no excuse for it. I've
had customers bring me their equipment that supposeedly had just been
serviced by other shops. I've found that other shops charge for regulator
service and new parts, but don't even work on them. It's very obvious. In
many cases the manufacturers had issued service bulletins and retrofit kits
for their regulators that had never been followed or installed after several
service visits. Some of the things I've found are mismatched pistons and HP
seats, fractued mainsprings, 2nd stage balance chambers snapped in half, and
wrong diaphrams being used. In one case, a tech diver told his employer that
I found another shop had not been servicing his regulator. The employer and
company attorney confronted the dive shop, and the shop admitted that it had
been charging for service not performed. I was later told that the dive shop
settled out of court.

Bottom line is know who you are dealing with. Ask for a tour of your dive
shop and meet the employees. Where I work, this is automatic for all new
customers. Speak with the factory technician(s), and ask to see their
certification certificates. On the tour, note shop conditions. Is it neat
and organized? Including the service department, rental equipment line,
mechanical room, classroom(s), etc. Is rental equipment old and worn out or
relatively new? Are factory training certificates and compressor air quality
certificates on dispaly and current? Is professional quality equipment, like
a Dwyer flow bench, used to test and set regulators to facytory specs, or is
it some jury rigged system with hard to read gauges? Is there a library of
manufacturer service manuals and bulletins? What's the parts inventory like?
Large and well stocked?

Contrary to Bullshark's assertion, scuba equipment manufacturers do rely on
authorized dealers to assure their equipment performs to specs. If they
didn't you'd be returning your equipment to the manufacturer for repair or
service.

Grumman-581 wrote:
>> A reputable authorized dealer will assemble the customer's scuba package
>> at no additional charge. Leisure Pro and other internet sellers will
>> sell you product, and ship it in the original boxes unassembled.
>
>Well, some of us would argue that if a diver is too stupid to assemble his
>own gear, he's too stupid to be diving anyway... There are others around
>who have had their gear back from service and it worked worse than it did
>prior to that... Things like the IP being set too high and the regulator
>free flowing as soon as you hit the water...

--
Thanks for visiting my Scuba Monster site. Please send me an email and tell
me what you think.

Regards and safe diving,
Joe

Message posted via ScubaMonster.com
http://www.scubamonster.com/Uwe/Foru...pment/200611/1

Grumman-581 wrote

> On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 04:53:19 +0000, jcondon26 via ScubaMonster.com wrote:
>> A reputable authorized dealer will assemble the customer's scuba package
>> at no additional charge. Leisure Pro and other internet sellers will
>> sell you product, and ship it in the original boxes unassembled.

> Well, some of us would argue that if a diver is too stupid to assemble his
> own gear, he's too stupid to be diving anyway...

I'd go for ignorant over stupid, but the end effect is the same.

> There are others around who have had their gear back from service and
> it worked worse than it did prior to that... Things like the IP being set
> too
> high and the regulator free flowing as soon as you hit the water...

Try freeflowed as soon as I turned on the gas. When this happened to me,
thanks to a very well known technical shop in the Fort Lauderdale area, one
often associated with a four letter organization, I brought the freshly
serviced regulators home and put them in the sink to do some final tweaking
to the cracking pressure. No matter how many times I tell them how I want
them, only one local shop, Force E, has ever complied with my wishes.
Jayna's was not problem. A couple of minutes and everything was just like I
wanted it. I attacked mine to the tank, opened the valve, and the regulator
immediately free flowed, in air. I shook it, pushed the purge, did all the
things one does when something unexpected happens, then turned everything
off and took the regulator back to the shop. The intermediate pressure was
about 100 lbs above what it should have been. There is no way in hell the
regulator was adjusted or tested before being returned as "serviced." Even
the most dense of service technicians would notice the freeflow you get from
100 psi too much pressure in the intermediate stage.

Lee

jcondon26 via ScubaMonster.com wrote:
> What has made you such an angry person?

Reading bullshit posts from liars out to bad-mouth good businesses and
steer newbies down the wrong road.

> Medication and professional counseling might help you get past whatever it is.

Who came in here calling people a**holes, ASSHOLE? Who came in here
trash talking LP and telling lies about them? Though you've been given
multiple opportunities, you still haven't taken the time to learn
anything about consumer rights. You're what the road to hell is paved
with. It's one thing to be ignorant, being self-righteous about it is
something else.

> Try it. It certainly can't make you any worse.

I'm sure you speak from personal experience. You're a poster boy for
why it's not worth trying.

Name your diveshop. I want to show your boss what kind of goodwill
ambassador he has working for him. I'm still waiting for your "scuba
equipment repair techinican" certification agency and #.