Diving Archeologists wrongfully detained by indonesian police

Dear friends,
it is time to act.

Professional Archeologists and Divers, who operated with
consent, contracts and licenses issued by Indonesian
authorities and government, to explore a shiwpwreck site in
Indonesian waters, have been recently detained by the local
police in Indonesia.

The fake reasons for this uphold can only be guessed at.
Still it seems obvious that the works in progress upset the
minds of local police wanting to participate in what they
migth have thought a bargain and easy game ( let the others
do the work, and rob the results).

The work of the archeologists is an indispensable and
historical step in discovering and explaining commercial
relations in ancient times as well as the handicraft related
to trade and shipyarding.

Let us, please, act as a community of responsable and well
informed divers and scientists, to help Mr. Fred Dobberphul,
Germany, and Mr. Jean-Paul Blancan, France, get out of
prison, complete their work, and to prevent such idiocies
from happening in the future.

Pls. acknowledge the facts found in the link mentioned below
and act by writing letters of protest to the Indonesian
Government, as well to the Indonesian Diplomatic Services,
and your own government.

<http://www.hstsg.de/> and related.

Please distribute this messages to as much contributors and
friends as you may deem important, especially to as much
government and non government organisations as possible.


Thanks once again,

Matthias Voss

X-No-Archive: Yes

"Matthias Voss" <mat.voss@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:44285271.3060100@t-online.de...
<snip>

Oh for goodness sake, all they want is a bribe. Just give them 50,000
rupiah.
Anybody who has so little understanding of how stuff works really shouldn't
be working there.

Grr.

Alun Harford

"Alun Harford" <usernet@alunharford.co.uk> wrote in message
news:e09sp0$ee$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk...
> X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> "Matthias Voss" <mat.voss@t-online.de> wrote in message
> news:44285271.3060100@t-online.de...
> <snip>
>
> Oh for goodness sake, all they want is a bribe. Just give them 50,000
> rupiah.
> Anybody who has so little understanding of how stuff works really
shouldn't
> be working there.
>
> Grr.
>
> Alun Harford

LOL!!

"Matthias Voss" <mat.voss@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:44285271.3060100@t-online.de...
> This document contains frames, which cannot be edited. The original
> document is attached.

Do you know these guys, and is there an English version somewhere?

Popeye wrote:
> "Matthias Voss" <mat.voss@t-online.de> wrote in message
> news:44285271.3060100@t-online.de...
>
>>This document contains frames, which cannot be edited. The original
>>document is attached.
>
>
> Do you know these guys, and is there an English version somewhere?

I know one of them, he is an instructor in the far vicinity,
in Hamburg.

Guess I should try a brief translation..

Thanks for asking, Doug.

Matthias

Froggy wrote:

> Popeye wrote:
>
>>"Matthias Voss" <mat.voss@t-online.de> wrote in message
>>news:44285271.3060100@t-online.de...
>>
>>>This document contains frames, which cannot be edited. The original
>>>document is attached.
>>
>> Do you know these guys, and is there an English version somewhere?
>
>
> But be careful, you may end up helping some French and German guys
>
> If you want something that sounds very much like the version of the
> facts peddled by the Indonesian police:
> http://www.cdnn.info/news/industry/i060309.html
>
> This version is more succint but looks a bit more balanced:
> http://www.thestandard.com.hk/stdn/s.../FK20Wd07.html
>
> I would find it difficult to believe that these divers may be
> considered as "looters" given the high-profile they gave to their
> project, that they constantly updated the authorities about the
> findings, or the fact that they had some Indonesian Marines onboard for
> protection (for good reasons: at one point in time, the Indonesian army
> had to protect the Jakarta warehouse holding the finds, against ....
> the Indonesian police).

Cite one french diver:
"Diver Jean-Paul Blancan insists the reason the team
incurred the navy's wrath is the team used legal rather than
corrupt channels. ``We're certainly one of the only teams to
have worked completely within the law,'' he said. ``That
must upset a few people. Here, nobody works like that.''"

This guy is absolutely right.
Nothing upsets corrupt authorities more than playing by the
legal rules.

Matthias

"Matthias Voss" <spammat.voss@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:e0aniq$qk8$01$1@news.t-online.com...
> Popeye wrote:
>> "Matthias Voss" <mat.voss@t-online.de> wrote in message
>> news:44285271.3060100@t-online.de...
>>
>>>This document contains frames, which cannot be edited. The original
>>>document is attached.
>>
>>
>> Do you know these guys, and is there an English version somewhere?
>
> I know one of them, he is an instructor in the far vicinity, in Hamburg.
>
> Guess I should try a brief translation..
>
> Thanks for asking, Doug.

No sweat.

If you know these guys, I'll write a letter.



>
> Matthias
>

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:56:38 +0200, Dirk Macke <Dirk.Macke.nur.fuer.news@ich-habe-fertig.com> wrote:
> Hallo Matthias,
>
> ich wuerde dringend empfehlen, die Musterbriefe zu ueberarbeiten.
>
> Formulierungen wie "demand", "unconditionally", "immediate" und die
> offene Beschuldigung indonesischer Beamter duerften IMHO einem
> Wuerdentraeger des asiatischen Raums gegenueber eher kontraproductiv sein.
>
> Ich glaube auch, dass die Forderung (!) nach der Fortfuehrung der
> Arbeiten im gegebenen Zusammenhang unangemessen ist.

Die HSTSG ist zufaellig mein Verein (in dem ich auch im Vorstand bin),
zufaellig kenne ich Fred, den einen betroffenen persoenlich, denn ich
habe bei ihm das Tauchen gelernt, daher fuehle ich mich mal berufen
hier etwas beizutragen.

Erstens: Ich war natuerlich nicht dabei. Aber alles was ich weiss
(weil ich Fred persoenlich kenne, weil ich mit jemandem, der auch ein
Jahr fuer das Projekt gearbeitet hat, lange ueber die Sache gesprochen
habe, weil ich die Presse und zB den Film, der letzte Woche ueber das
Projekt bei ARTE lief, gesehen habe), ist, dass die Version von Fred
und Co, absolut glaubwuerdig ist. Fred hat schon seit Jahren erzaehlt,
dass es ueberaus schwierig ist, verlaesslich in Idonesien alle
noetigen Lizenzen zu bekommen, dass es aber der einzige Weg ist, um
dort serioes zu arbeiten. Sie wussten, dass sie dermassen unter
Beobachtung stehen, dass sowas von ueberhaupt nicht daran zu denken
war, sich auch nur eine kleine Scherbe als Andenken in die Hosentasche
zu stecken.

Weiterhin ist das Projekt nicht nur eine kleine Urlaubsbelustigung,
sondern es geht um viel Geld. Richig viel Geld. Daher ist es auch
glaubwuerdig, dass es da Begehrlichkeiten von anderen Seiten gibt und
es attraktiv erscheint, die Konkurrenz per Polizei aus dem Weg raeumen
zu lassen, insbesondere in einem Land, wo der Rechtsstaat nicht
unbedingt besonders ausgepraegt ist (offenbar).

Aus diesem Grund ist es auch nicht die tollste Idee, aus der Sache
rauszukommen, indem man sagt, "Schulligung, tut uns leid, machen wir
nicht wieder, und ja, wir fahren jetzt nach Hause und lassen uns
nie mehr blicken". Dafuer ist schon eine Menge zu viel Geld
investiert, um sich kleinlaut einfach davon zu stehlen.

Die Sache ist also komplizierter und ich hoffe, dass Fred und sein
Partner moeglichst bald (evtl auch nach internationalem Druck, das
deutsche und das franzoesische Aussenministerium haben sich schon
eingeschalted) wieder frei kommen und ihre Arbeit wieder aufnehmen
koennen.

Robert



--
..oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo. oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oO
Robert C. Helling School of Science and Engineering
International University Bremen
print "Just another Phone: +49 421-200 3574
stupid .sig\n"; http://www.aei-potsdam.mpg.de/~helling

X-No-Archive: Yes

"Matthias Voss" <spammat.voss@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:e0asfv$eg3$03$1@news.t-online.com...
> Froggy wrote:
>
>> Popeye wrote:
>>
>>>"Matthias Voss" <mat.voss@t-online.de> wrote in message
>>>news:44285271.3060100@t-online.de...
>>>
>>>>This document contains frames, which cannot be edited. The original
>>>>document is attached.
>>>
>>> Do you know these guys, and is there an English version somewhere?
>>
>>
>> But be careful, you may end up helping some French and German guys
>>
>> If you want something that sounds very much like the version of the
>> facts peddled by the Indonesian police:
>> http://www.cdnn.info/news/industry/i060309.html
>>
>> This version is more succint but looks a bit more balanced:
>> http://www.thestandard.com.hk/stdn/s.../FK20Wd07.html
>>
>> I would find it difficult to believe that these divers may be
>> considered as "looters" given the high-profile they gave to their
>> project, that they constantly updated the authorities about the
>> findings, or the fact that they had some Indonesian Marines onboard for
>> protection (for good reasons: at one point in time, the Indonesian army
>> had to protect the Jakarta warehouse holding the finds, against ....
>> the Indonesian police).
>
> Cite one french diver:
> "Diver Jean-Paul Blancan insists the reason the team incurred the navy's
> wrath is the team used legal rather than corrupt channels. ``We're
> certainly one of the only teams to have worked completely within the
> law,'' he said. ``That must upset a few people. Here, nobody works like
> that.''"
>
> This guy is absolutely right.
> Nothing upsets corrupt authorities more than playing by the legal rules.

Not even nessersarily corrupt. Part of their job is to get bribes. The
military gets about 1/3 of its funding from the government and the other 2/3
from bribes. It's one of the few places in the world where you can get a
receipt for your bribe (you can imagine what response 'bribe' gets from
beancounters - always get a receipt).
Anybody working there without this kind of basic knowledge is asking to get
locked up. Why should I offer any kind of assistance to them when I know
that they can just bribe their way out?

Alun Harford

Froggy wrote:

> Popeye wrote:
>
>>"Matthias Voss" <mat.voss@t-online.de> wrote in message
>>news:44285271.3060100@t-online.de...
>>
> If you want something that sounds very much like the version of the
> facts peddled by the Indonesian police:
> http://www.cdnn.info/news/industry/i060309.html
>
> This version is more succint but looks a bit more balanced:
> http://www.thestandard.com.hk/stdn/s.../FK20Wd07.html


By far the best press article I found here:
http://www.liberation.fr/page.php?Article=368349

The most important clue I get from this is by the fact that
first) police divers went down th the site, then) all at
once allegedly withheld material was found on a ship, and
where the crews lodged.

Seems quite clear that the police needed to place fake
evidence, accentuated by the fact that were accompanied by
opponents form this indonesian/australien concurrent party.

Matthias





>
> I would find it difficult to believe that these divers may be
> considered as "looters" given the high-profile they gave to their
> project, that they constantly updated the authorities about the
> findings, or the fact that they had some Indonesian Marines onboard for
> protection (for good reasons: at one point in time, the Indonesian army
> had to protect the Jakarta warehouse holding the finds, against ....
> the Indonesian police).
>
> Cheers,
>
> Froggy
>