Bali and Lombok Trip from UK

For those interested in Bali & Lombok check this out

'www.scubadivingtours.co.uk' (http://www.scubadivingtours.co.uk)


--
jason

Padi divemaster
------------------------------------------------------------------------
jason's Profile: http://forums.deeperblue.net/member....fo&userid=1389
View this thread: http://forums.deeperblue.net/showthr...threadid=60860


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
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"jason" <jason.1og7dz@forums.deeperblue.net> wrote in message
news:jason.1og7dz@forums.deeperblue.net...
>
> For those interested in Bali & Lombok check this out
>
> 'www.spamdivingtours.co.suk' (http://www.spamdivingtours.co.suk)

No one wants to travel with a cheap lousy spammer.

Why is putting an add about a trip that I am trying to put together
Spam?
I started this thread in the rec.scuba.locations area where info about
places to dive should be put, I have also said quite clearly that it is
for those interested in Bali and Lombok, if you are not then don't
look.

I have spent alot of time and effort in researching the costs,
negociating with operators and hotels and not least in putting a web
site together so that those interested can get more information on the
trip. The price £950 is for 2 weeks and includes flights, accommodation
and 20 dives, is suitable for all levels of diver and caters for
non-divers.Courses are also available at prices that you will not beat,
all this in a great part of the world that is still recovering from the
Bali bomb and needs tourists to survive.

So once again, for those interested in Bali and Lombok check this out

'www.scubadivingtours.co.uk' (http://www.scubadivingtours.co.uk)

Many thanks to all those that have looked, I hope the info is useful. I
have travelled to this part of the world many time so if you have any
questions about Bali or lombok I am more than willing to help wether
you are interested in this trip or not.


--
jason

Padi divemaster
------------------------------------------------------------------------
jason's Profile: http://forums.deeperblue.net/member....fo&userid=1389
View this thread: http://forums.deeperblue.net/showthr...threadid=60860


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

"jason" <jason.1ojz9n@forums.deeperblue.net> wrote in message
news:jason.1ojz9n@forums.deeperblue.net...

> I have spent alot of time and effort


That's your choice and doesn't force any requirement on anyone else or any
other forum....particularly this newsgroup. Here's why:

http://scifi.squawk.com/scuba.html

Please note the comment "Commercial advertisements are not appropriate. "

It probably is Greg's fault that relative to "Spam" he doesn't understand
the difference between content and consent, but he was, under any other
condition, correct and your were wrong.

And I might add...compared to other responses I have seen here to callous
disregard for the rules against advertising...Greg was sweet as sugar with a
kiss on the cheek and a cherry on top. You should feel blessed :^)

"jason" <jason.1ojz9n@forums.deeperblue.net> wrote in message
news:jason.1ojz9n@forums.deeperblue.net...

> Why is putting an add about a trip that I am trying to put together
> Spam?

Because it's an [sic] add, dummy.

X-Comments: This message was posted through <A href
X-Comments2: IMPORTANT: Newsfeeds.com does not condone,
X-Report: Please report illegal or inappropriate use to
Organization: Newsfeeds.com http://www.newsfeeds.com

Q: How do I report abuse issues?
A: You may report newsgroup and Usenet abuse issues to abuse@newsfeeds.com.
Please include the name of the group and the article ID when reporting
abuse. We will do our best to remove the offending posts as soon as
possible.

Here is a copy of my e-mail reporting your blatant abuse:

To: abuse@newsfeeds.com
Subject: Abusive commercial advertising

Dear abuse:

Please note that one of your subscribers, posting through an bulletin board
system at www.deeperblue.net, has violated the rec.scuba.location charter on
an least two separate locations, by posting commercial advertisements.

The offending posts are:
<jason.1og7dz@forums.deeperblue.net> and
<jason.1ojz9n@forums.deeperblue.net>

Rather than simply terminate the account of this one user, I would draw your
attention to the fact that there simply are no posts of redeeming value
coming from the broader Deeper Blue bulletin board system and it our sincere
hope that all such feeds from such an indirect system be terminated as well,
as their users have proven to be unrepentant and totally reprehensible.

Thank you for your assistance with this matter.

Greg Mossman
mossman@qnet.com

"Greg Mossman" <mossman@qnet.com> pounded away at his keyboard
resulting in:

:Please note that one of your subscribers, posting through an bulletin board
:system at www.deeperblue.net, has violated the rec.scuba.location charter on
:an least two separate locations, by posting commercial advertisements.

What charter?

Dan Bracuk
If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure.

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

"Dan Bracuk" <NOTbracuk@pathcom.com> wrote in message
news:68il71p68dr439av93jkb34a0m02au9o15@4ax.com...

> There are no rules on this newsgroup. The reference is a faq, not a
> set of rules.

Uh huh. Whatever.

Please also note:

ftp://ftp.isc.org/pub/usenet/news.an...cuba.locations

From zimmmt@aur.alcatel.com Fri Aug 11 14:41:43 1995
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: Mike Zimmerman <zimmmt@aur.alcatel.com>
Newsgroups:
news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.scuba,rec. travel.latin-america,rec.travel.asia,rec.travel.europe,rec.trav el.misc,rec.travel.cruises
Subject: RFD: rec.scuba reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 11 Aug 1995 18:41:38 -0000
Organization: .
Lines: 67
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net
Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net
Message-ID: <40g892$jdc@rodan.UU.NET>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Archive-Name: rec.scuba.locations
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:7312 news.groups:163867 rec.scuba:69022
rec.travel.latin-america:649 rec.travel.asia:13054 rec.travel.europe:34743
rec.travel.misc:18157 rec.travel.cruises:11577

REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
unmoderated group rec.scuba.locations
unmoderated group rec.scuba to rec.scuba.misc (renames rec.scuba)

Summary: Split of rec.scuba to create a scuba travel-specific group.
Proponent: Mike Zimmerman <zimmmt@aur.alcatel.com>
Mentor: Ilana Stern <ilana@niwot.scd.ucar.edu>

This is a formal request for discussion on the split of the unmoderated
newsgroup rec.scuba to create a scuba travel/location-specific group.
This is not a call for votes. Please don't vote now.

RATIONALE:

The rec.scuba newsgroup has reached a high level of daily traffic.
Statistics from the Usenet Info Center show rec.scuba with
a monthly volume of 4470 messages, or approximately 149/day.
It has been noted that close to 50% of these messages (75/day) are
related to divers' questions about the logistics of arranging a dive
vacation or the diving conditions in an area to which they might move.

Thus by creating rec.scuba.locations, the traffic on rec.scuba
could be split in half, with the remaining (non-location specific)
discussions taking place in rec.scuba.misc.

CHARTER: rec.scuba.locations

The purpose of this group will be for divers to exchange information
about dive sites, dive locations, dive operations at these locations,
and how to get themselves and their gear there. Commercial
advertisements are not acceptable.

CHARTER: rec.scuba.misc

This group is for discussion of all topics related to scuba diving
which do not fall into any other defined category. (Note: this
sentence is intended to be vague such that this charter need not
change when the rec.scuba.* hierarchy further expands). Infrequent
advertisements from private individuals are acceptable but commercial
advertising is not.

PROCEDURE:

This RFD has been posted in accordance with the Guidelines for
Newsgroup Creation. Discussion will take place in news.groups only.
Please post follow-ups to news.groups only.

This is NOT a ballot for a vote. This posting is to initiate a
discussion, to occur in the news.groups newsgroup, about the proposal.
This discussion will last about a month, and not less than 21 days.
If a consensus can be reached in the discussion, the proponent will
send the revised proposal to the Usenet Volunteer Votetakers who will
then post the official ballot giving the procedure for voting. This
vote will then last about a month, details to be in the offical Call
For Vote ballot posting.

When voting time comes, you will be advised as to how, where and how
long the vote would be taken. If the proposal receives 100 more YES
votes than NO and (at least) twice as many YES as NO votes, the group
will be created.

DISTRIBUTION:

This RFD is being posted to the following relevant newsgroups:

news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, rec.scuba, rec.travel.latin-america,
rec.travel.asia, rec.travel.europe, rec.travel.misc, rec.travel.cruises

From zimmmt@aur.alcatel.com Fri Sep 29 17:08:46 1995
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: zimmmt@aur.alcatel.com (Mike Zimmerman)
Newsgroups:
news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.scuba,rec. travel.latin-america,rec.travel.asia,rec.travel.europe,rec.trav el.misc,rec.travel.cruises,bit.listserv.scuba-l
Subject: 2nd RFD: rec.scuba.{locations,equipment,misc}
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 29 Sep 1995 21:08:43 -0000
Organization: .
Lines: 93
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net
Approved: newgroups-request@uunet.uu.net
Message-ID: <44hn8r$r8@rodan.UU.NET>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Archive-Name: rec.scuba.locations
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:7629 news.groups:168988 rec.scuba:75902
rec.travel.latin-america:1971 rec.travel.asia:15560 rec.travel.europe:39807
rec.travel.misc:20684 rec.travel.cruises:13658 bit.listserv.scuba-l:24565

REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
unmoderated group rec.scuba.locations
unmoderated group rec.scuba.equipment
unmoderated group rec.scuba.misc (renames rec.scuba)

Summary: Split of rec.scuba to create a scuba equipment and a
scuba travel-specific group

Proponent: Mike Zimmerman <zimmmt@aur.alcatel.com>
Mentor: Ilana Stern <ilana@niwot.scd.ucar.EDU>

This is a second request for discussion on the split of the unmoderated
newsgroup rec.scuba to create a scuba equipment and a scuba
travel/location-specific group.

CHANGES since the first RFD:
The group rec.scuba.equipment was added as a result of a straw poll.
The wording of the .locations charter was slightly changed to include
liveaboards and to convey the intent that information exchange be
from first-hand experience at dicussed locations.

This RFD has been posted in accordance with the Guidelines for
Newsgroup Creation. This RFD is being posted to the following relevant
newsgroups:

news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, rec.scuba,
rec.travel.latin-america,
rec.travel.asia, rec.travel.europe, rec.travel.misc, rec.travel.cruises,
bit.listserv.scuba-l

Discussion will take place in news.groups only. Please post
follow-ups to news.groups only.

This is not a call for votes. Please don't vote now.

RATIONALE: all groups

The rec.scuba newsgroup has reached a high level of daily traffic.
Statistics from the Usenet Info Center show rec.scuba with
a monthly volume of 4470 messages, or approximately 149/day.
It has been noted that close to 50% of these messages (75/day) are
related to divers' questions about the logistics of arranging a dive
vacation or the diving conditions in an area to which they might move.
Another 20-25% are related to the purchase and discussion of scuba gear.

Thus by creating rec.scuba.equipment and rec.scuba.locations, the
traffic on rec.scuba could be broken into smaller pieces with the
remaining discussions taking place in rec.scuba.misc.

CHARTER: rec.scuba.locations

The purpose of this group will be to exchange information (preferably
first-hand) about dive sites, dive locations (including live-aboards),
dive operations at these locations, how to get yourself and your gear
there, and where to stay/ eat/play once you do. Commercial
advertisements are not appropriate.

END CHARTER.

CHARTER: rec.scuba.equipment

This group is for discussion of all topics related to scuba diving
equipment: its purchase, its use, and for the sharing of experiences
that others have had with it. Infrequent advertisements from private
individuals are acceptable but commercial advertising is not.

END CHARTER.

CHARTER: rec.scuba.misc

This group is for discussion of all topics related to scuba diving
which do not fall into any other defined category. (Note: this
sentence is intended to be vague such that this charter need not
change if the rec.scuba.* hierarchy ever expands). Infrequent
advertisements from private individuals are acceptable but commercial
advertising is not.

END CHARTER.

PROCEDURE:

This is NOT a ballot for a vote. This posting is to initiate a
discussion, to occur in the news.groups newsgroup, about this second
proposal. This second discussion will last about two weeks. If a
consensus can be reached in the discussion, the proponent will send
the revised proposal to the Usenet Volunteer Votetakers who will then
post the official ballot giving the procedure for voting. This vote
will then last about a month, details to be in the offical Call For
Vote ballot posting.

When voting time comes, you will be advised as to how, where and how
long the vote would be taken. If the proposal receives 100 more YES
votes than NO and (at least) twice as many YES as NO votes, the group
will be created.

From votetaker@f10.facts.uky.edu Fri Oct 20 18:02:35 1995
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: Kenneth Herron <votetaker@f10.facts.uky.edu>
Newsgroups:
news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,bit.listserv.s cuba-l,rec.scuba,rec.travel.asia,rec.travel.cruises,rec .travel.europe,rec.travel.latin-america,rec.travel.misc
Subject: CFV: rec.scuba.{equipment,locations,misc}
Followup-To: poster
Date: 20 Oct 1995 22:02:30 -0000
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 130
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net
Approved: newgroups-request@uunet.uu.net
Expires: 11 Nov 1995 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <46969m$ed7@rodan.UU.NET>
Reply-To: <voting@f10.facts.uky.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Archive-Name: rec.scuba.locations
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:7727 news.groups:170904
bit.listserv.scuba-l:25363 rec.scuba:78549 rec.travel.asia:16572
rec.travel.cruises:14426 rec.travel.europe:41380
rec.travel.latin-america:2496 rec.travel.misc:21736

FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
unmoderated group rec.scuba.equipment
unmoderated group rec.scuba.locations
unmoderated group rec.scuba.misc (renames rec.scuba)

Newsgroups lines:
rec.scuba.equipment Scuba equipment, purchase, pros/cons, use.
rec.scuba.locations Scuba travel, location questions.
rec.scuba.misc Scuba topics not covered in other groups.

Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 10 Nov 1995.

This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. Questions about
this proposal should be directed to the proponent.

Proponent: Mike Zimmerman <zimmmt@aur.alcatel.com>
Votetaker: Kenneth Herron <votetaker@f10.facts.uky.edu>


RATIONALE: rec.scuba.equipment

Approximately 20-25% of rec.scuba traffic is related to discussions
about dive gear. This is the second most easily define-able subgroup.

CHARTER: rec.scuba.equipment

This group is for discussion of all topics related to scuba diving
equipment: its purchase, its use, and for the sharing of experiences
that others have had with it. Infrequent advertisements from private
individuals are acceptable but commercial advertising is not.

END CHARTER.


RATIONALE: rec.scuba.locations

Currently approximately 50% of rec.scuba traffic is related to dive
travel, and questions about diving at certain locations.

CHARTER: rec.scuba.locations

The purpose of this group will be to exchange information (preferably
first-hand) about dive sites, dive locations (including live-aboards),
dive operations at these locations, how to get yourself and your gear
there, and where to stay/ eat/play once you do. Commercial
advertisements are not appropriate.

END CHARTER.


RATIONALE: rec.scuba.misc

There are many other areas of discussion about scuba diving which do not
have sufficient volume to break out into their own groups, or are not
easily defined for the purpose of sub-division. These topics need a
group.

CHARTER: rec.scuba.misc

This group is for discussion of all topics related to scuba diving which
do not fall into any other defined newsgroup. (Note: this sentence is
intended to be vague such that this charter need not change if the
rec.scuba.* hierarchy ever expands). Commercial advertisements are not
appropriate.

END CHARTER.


HOW TO VOTE

Erase everything above the top "-=-=-=-" line and erase everything below
the bottom "-=-=-=-" line. Do not erase anything between these lines
and do not change the group names.

Give your name on the line that asks for it. For each group, place a
YES or NO in the brackets next to it to vote for or against it. If you
don't want to vote on a particular group, just leave the space blank.
Don't worry about spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">")
that your reply inserts.

Then send via e-mail to: voting@f10.facts.uky.edu

-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines -=-=-=-=-=-
Rec.scuba reorganization Ballot <MLESR-01> (Don't remove this marker)

Give your real name here->
If you do not give your real name, your vote
may be voided after the close of voting.

[Your Vote] Group
-----------------------------------------------------------------
[ YES ] example.yes.vote
[ NO ] example.no.vote
[ ABSTAIN ] example.abstention

[ ] CREATE rec.scuba.equipment
[ ] CREATE rec.scuba.locations
[ ] RENAME rec.scuba to rec.scuba.misc
-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines -=-=-=-=-=-

VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES:

Standard Guidelines for voting apply. One person, one vote. Votes must
be mailed directly from the voter to the votetaker. Anonymous,
forwarded or proxy votes are not valid; this includes votes generated by
WWW/HTML/CGI forms.

Vote counting is automated. Failure to follow these directions may mean
that your vote does not get counted. If you do not receive an
acknowledgment of your vote within three days, contact the votetaker
about the problem. It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is
registered correctly. Duplicate votes are resolved in favor of the most
recent valid vote. Addresses and votes of all voters will be published
in the final voting results post.

The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest of
persons who would read a proposed newsgroup. Soliciting votes from
disinterested parties defeats this purpose. Please do not distribute
this CFV. If you must, direct people to the official CFV as posted to
news.announce.newgroups. Distributing pre-marked or otherwise edited
copies of this CFV is generally considered to be vote fraud. When in
doubt, ask the votetaker.


DISTRIBUTION:

In addition to the groups named in the Newsgroups: header, the CFV and
the eventual RESULT posts will be posted separately to the following
list:
uw-photo@world.std.com

From votetaker@f10.facts.uky.edu Mon Oct 30 08:31:08 1995
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: Kenneth Herron <votetaker@f10.facts.uky.edu>
Newsgroups:
news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,bit.listserv.s cuba-l,rec.scuba,rec.travel.asia,rec.travel.cruises,rec .travel.europe
Subject: 2nd CFV: rec.scuba.{equipment,locations,misc}
Supersedes: <46969m$ed7@rodan.UU.NET>
Followup-To: poster
Date: 30 Oct 1995 13:31:03 -0000
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 132
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net
Approved: newgroups-request@uunet.uu.net
Expires: 11 Nov 1995 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <472k2n$i1r@rodan.UU.NET>
References: <46969m$ed7@rodan.UU.NET>
Reply-To: <voting@f10.facts.uky.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Archive-Name: rec.scuba.locations
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:7779 news.groups:171889
bit.listserv.scuba-l:25590 rec.scuba:79606 rec.travel.asia:16999
rec.travel.cruises:14753 rec.travel.europe:42083

LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
unmoderated group rec.scuba.equipment
unmoderated group rec.scuba.locations
unmoderated group rec.scuba.misc (renames rec.scuba)

Newsgroups lines:
rec.scuba.equipment Scuba equipment, purchase, pros/cons,
use.rec.scuba.locations Scuba travel, location questions.rec.scuba.miscScubatopics not covered in other groups.
Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 10 Nov 1995.

This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. Questions about
this proposal should be directed to the proponent.

Proponent: Mike Zimmerman <zimmmt@aur.alcatel.com>
Votetaker: Kenneth Herron <votetaker@f10.facts.uky.edu>


RATIONALE: rec.scuba.equipment

Approximately 20-25% of rec.scuba traffic is related to discussions
about dive gear. This is the second most easily define-able subgroup.

CHARTER: rec.scuba.equipment

This group is for discussion of all topics related to scuba diving
equipment: its purchase, its use, and for the sharing of experiences
that others have had with it. Infrequent advertisements from private
individuals are acceptable but commercial advertising is not.

END CHARTER.


RATIONALE: rec.scuba.locations

Currently approximately 50% of rec.scuba traffic is related to dive
travel, and questions about diving at certain locations.

CHARTER: rec.scuba.locations

The purpose of this group will be to exchange information (preferably
first-hand) about dive sites, dive locations (including live-aboards),
dive operations at these locations, how to get yourself and your gear
there, and where to stay/ eat/play once you do. Commercial
advertisements are not appropriate.

END CHARTER.


RATIONALE: rec.scuba.misc

There are many other areas of discussion about scuba diving which do not
have sufficient volume to break out into their own groups, or are not
easily defined for the purpose of sub-division. These topics need a
group.

CHARTER: rec.scuba.misc

This group is for discussion of all topics related to scuba diving which
do not fall into any other defined newsgroup. (Note: this sentence is
intended to be vague such that this charter need not change if the
rec.scuba.* hierarchy ever expands). Commercial advertisements are not
appropriate.

END CHARTER.


HOW TO VOTE

Erase everything above the top "-=-=-=-" line and erase everything below
the bottom "-=-=-=-" line. Do not erase anything between these lines
and do not change the group names.

Give your name on the line that asks for it. For each group, place a
YES or NO in the brackets next to it to vote for or against it. If you
don't want to vote on a particular group, just leave the space blank.
Don't worry about spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">")
that your reply inserts.

Then send via e-mail to: voting@f10.facts.uky.edu

-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines -=-=-=-=-=-
Rec.scuba reorganization Ballot <MLESR-02> (Don't remove this marker)

Give your real name here->
If you do not give your real name, your vote
may be voided after the close of voting.

[Your Vote] Group
-----------------------------------------------------------------
[ YES ] example.yes.vote
[ NO ] example.no.vote
[ ABSTAIN ] example.abstention

[ ] CREATE rec.scuba.equipment
[ ] CREATE rec.scuba.locations
[ ] RENAME rec.scuba to rec.scuba.misc
-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines -=-=-=-=-=-

VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES:

Standard Guidelines for voting apply. One person, one vote. Votes must
be mailed directly from the voter to the votetaker. Anonymous,
forwarded or proxy votes are not valid; this includes votes generated by
WWW/HTML/CGI forms.

Vote counting is automated. Failure to follow these directions may mean
that your vote does not get counted. If you do not receive an
acknowledgment of your vote within three days, contact the votetaker
about the problem. It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is
registered correctly. Duplicate votes are resolved in favor of the most
recent valid vote. Addresses and votes of all voters will be published
in the final voting results post.

The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest of
persons who would read a proposed newsgroup. Soliciting votes from
disinterested parties defeats this purpose. Please do not distribute
this CFV. If you must, direct people to the official CFV as posted to
news.announce.newgroups. Distributing pre-marked or otherwise edited
copies of this CFV is generally considered to be vote fraud. When in
doubt, ask the votetaker.


DISTRIBUTION:

In addition to the groups named in the Newsgroups: header, the CFV and
the eventual RESULT posts will be posted separately to the following
list:
uw-photo@world.std.com


Rec.scuba reorganization Acknowledgement Bounce List - No need to revote
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
peters@peters.apricot.mee.com Peter
Smith

From votetaker@f10.facts.uky.edu Tue Nov 14 08:58:22 1995
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: Kenneth Herron <votetaker@f10.facts.uky.edu>
Newsgroups:
news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,bit.listserv.s cuba-l,rec.scuba,rec.travel.asia,rec.travel.cruises,rec .travel.europe
Subject: RESULT: rec.scuba.{equipment,locations,misc} mixed results
Supersedes: <472k2n$i1r@rodan.UU.NET>
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 14 Nov 1995 08:58:18 -0500
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 339
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net
Approved: newgroups-request@uunet.uu.net
Message-ID: <816357493.23282@uunet.uu.net>
References: <46969m$ed7@rodan.UU.NET> <472k2n$i1r@rodan.UU.NET>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Archive-Name: rec.scuba.locations
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:7876 news.groups:173935
bit.listserv.scuba-l:25897 rec.scuba:81635 rec.travel.asia:17727
rec.travel.cruises:15361 rec.travel.europe:43331

RESULT
unmoderated group rec.scuba.equipment passes 185:53
unmoderated group rec.scuba.locations passes 195:47
unmoderated group rec.scuba.misc (renames rec.scuba) fails 163:81

Rec.scuba reorganization results - 253 valid votes

Yes No | 2/3 >100 | Pass | Group
---- ---- | --- ---- | ---- | -------------------------------------------
185 53 | Yes Yes | Yes | rec.scuba.equipment
195 47 | Yes Yes | Yes | rec.scuba.locations
163 81 | Yes No | No | rec.scuba.misc
4 invalid votes

A five day discussion period follows this announcement. If no
serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the
moderator of news.announce.newgroups will create the passing groups
shortly thereafter. The failing group may not be voted on again for
six months.

Newsgroups lines:
rec.scuba.equipment Scuba equipment, purchase, pros/cons, use.
rec.scuba.locations Scuba travel, location questions.
rec.scuba.misc Scuba topics not covered in other groups.

Voting closed at 23:59:59 UTC, 10 Nov 1995.

This vote was conducted by a neutral third party. Questions about
this proposal should be directed to the proponent.

Proponent: Mike Zimmerman <zimmmt@aur.alcatel.com>
Votetaker: Kenneth Herron <votetaker@f10.facts.uky.edu>

CHARTER: rec.scuba.equipment

This group is for discussion of all topics related to scuba diving
equipment: its purchase, its use, and for the sharing of experiences
that others have had with it. Infrequent advertisements from private
individuals are acceptable but commercial advertising is not.

END CHARTER.

CHARTER: rec.scuba.locations

The purpose of this group will be to exchange information (preferably
first-hand) about dive sites, dive locations (including live-aboards),
dive operations at these locations, how to get yourself and your gear
there, and where to stay/ eat/play once you do. Commercial
advertisements are not appropriate.

END CHARTER.

CHARTER: rec.scuba.misc

This group is for discussion of all topics related to scuba diving which
do not fall into any other defined newsgroup. (Note: this sentence is
intended to be vague such that this charter need not change if the
rec.scuba.* hierarchy ever expands). Commercial advertisements are not
appropriate.

END CHARTER.

Rec.scuba reorganization Final Voter list
rec.scuba.misc -----+
rec.scuba.locations ----+|
rec.scuba.equipment ---+||

|||
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
bull@highland.com.au Geoff Bull
YYY
stuartg@wormald.com.au Stuart Gordon
YY-
PRETALLICK@hoasy5.isd4.tafensw.EDU.AU Peter Retallick
YYY
D.Frank@unsw.edu.au Dave Frank
NNN
bourguet@muelec.fpms.ac.be Jean-Marc Bourguet
NYY
jan.coekelberghs@ping.be Jan
Coekelberghs -NN
rross@langara.bc.ca Ron Ross
YYY
Charlie_Gibbs@mindlink.bc.ca Charlie Gibbs
YYY
Don_Randall@mindlink.bc.ca Don Randall
YYY
ac447@freenet.carleton.ca Bill Woolley
YYY
kmitchel@direct.ca Kevin Mitchell
NNN
magnus@freenet.mb.ca S Magnusson
YYY
bremner@muff.cs.mcgill.ca David Bremner
YYY
mark@blas.cis.mcmaster.ca Mark Hollamby-Lane
YYN
bryanc@darwin.mbb.sfu.ca Bryan Crawford
NNN
pj@unixg.ubc.ca Peter J Johnston
NNN
lot@gmsg.ch Gabriel Lottaz
YYY
t241@herkules.zkb.ch Manfredo Ilardi
YYY
OREILLYM@CCRTR3.ABBOTT.COM Mike O'Reilly
YYY
zimmmt@aur.alcatel.com Mike Zimmerman
YYY
devuns@alsys.com Olivier Devuns
NNN
jzp80@juts.ccc.amdahl.com Jane Pook
YYY
Dillon.Pyron@amd.com Dillon Pyron
NNN
vgreene@amo.com Vincent Greene
YYY
Jim S.@aol.com Jim Stennett
YYY
jimrooney@aol.com JimRooney
YYY
JLenoxRob@aol.com John L Roberts
YYY
Kswisher@aol.com Ken Swisher
YYY
TLeeMay@aol.com Mr. Terry L. May - Master Sciences LA SAT TECH/KEY
YYY
coy@awebs.com Chip Coy
YYY
dbentley@awinc.com Doug Bentley
YYY
stainles@bga.com Dwight Brown
NNN
cherf@cisco.com Scott Cherf
YYN
wdavies@crl.com WARREN G. DAVIES
YYY
webster@cygnus.com David Webster
YYN
HEOWNBY@delphi.com Helen Ownby aka heownby@delphi.com
YYN
pettit@ug.eds.com Kyle Pettit
YYY
rfuller@powergrid.electriciti.com Ron Fuller
YYY
stick@escalade.com John Stick
NNN
scs@eskimo.com Steve
Summit --N
CKHaun@eworld.com C.K. Haun
NNN
wayne.berry@final.com Wayne Berry
YNN
walt@freemarket.com Walter Heenan
YYY
matt_thompson@genmagic.com Matt Thompson
NNN
jrm@globalvillag.com John R. MacWilliamson
NNY
dg03@gte.com David Grimm
YYY
spm@augie.mlb.semi.harris.com Steve McKibben
NNN
dbarrett@spectre.ssd.hcsc.com Douglas Barrett
NYN
bjv@herbison.com B.J.
Herbison --Y
mdunn@hns.com Michael Dunn <mdunn@hns.com>
NNN
lawrence@hpsgsi3.sgp.hp.com Lawrence LEONG
NNN
miket@hpsqf.sqf.hp.com Mike Thomas
YYY
andy_johnson@uk.ibm.com Andy Johnson
YYY
scott@ictv.com Scott Watters
YYY
toddl@infinet.com Todd Leonard
YYN
Dave.Bethell@isltd.insignia.com Dave
Bethell -YY
gjones@ichips.intel.com Gary A. Jones
YYY
joel@SSD.intel.com Joel Clark
YYN
ked@SSD.intel.com Karin E. Dietterich
YYY
bparker@interaccess.com Ben Parker
YYY
mfrazin@interaccess.com Shadow
YYY
sheitz@interaccess.com Steve Heitz
YYY
snorvich@interaccess.com Steven N. Norvich
YYY
brandon_heess@intuit.com Brandon Heess
YYY
bobk@landmark.com Bob Kuhfahl
YYY
janetg@lexis-nexis.com Janet Geesen
Smith -Y-
RoachG@logica.com Greg Roach
NYN
bruce@magma.COM Bruce Schoenleber
NNN
njs@scifi.maid.com Nick Simicich
NNN
jai@mantra.com Jai Maharaj
YYY
hmueller@maxsolns.com Harry Mueller
YYY
fedor@mcc.com Lee A. Fedor
YYN
jot@tmp.medtronic.com Jot Powers
YYY
peters@peters.apricot.mee.com Peter Smith
YYY
mdm@yeehah.merk.com Maria D. Maggio
NNN
croley@acal.corp.mot.com David Croley
YYY
Caruso_Margaret@macmail1.csg.mot.com Margaret Caruso
NNN
Migaldi_Scott@macmail1.csg.mot.com Scott F. Migaldi
NNN
ggunn@aton.sps.mot.com Gordon Gunn (Gordon in Austin)
YYN
nklop@mrj.com Nick Klop
YYN
judy@valinor.mythical.com Judy Labovitz
YNN
stu@valinor.mythical.com Stu Labovitz
YYY
island@neosoft.com KENNETH DAVID KNEZICK
YYY
bobmunk@ix.netcom.com Bob Munk
YYY
FocusNow@ix.netcom.com Robert
Keeney ---
kasmith2@ix.netcom.com Kenneth A. Smith
YYY
kazmarek@ix.netcom.com Edward A. Kazmarek
YYN
lanceac@ix.netcom.com Lance Cason
YYN
catseye@netcom.com Mark Kupferman
NYN
lchow@netcom.com Leslie J. Chow
YYY
twells@netcom.com Tabor J. Wells
YYY
walkerk@netcom.com Kent Walker
YYY
bak@netrix.com Barbara Koehler
YYY
grizzy@nwlink.com Shep Griswold
YYY
orc@pell.com david parsons
YYN
LBN1%Cid%BayPen@go50.comp.pge.com Linh Nguyen
YYY
harlan@pipeline.com Harlan Cohen
NNN
impete@pipeline.com Pete Taylor
YYN
kim@shell.portal.com Kim DeVaughn
YYY
roth@primenet.com Jack Roth
YYY
DGKD41A@prodigy.com PEG HETLAGE
YYY
MMFF37A@prodigy.com Michael J. Gallagher
YYY
patd@protools.com Pat J. Doyle <patd@ngc.com>
YYY
xanthian@qualcomm.com Kent Paul Dolan
YYY
mmt@RedBrick.COM M Mike
Taksar --Y
agreenberg@sarnoff.com Art Greenberg
YYY
unknown-user@wet.sbi.com Mike Crockford
YYY
narad@nudibranch.asd.sgi.com Chuck Narad
NNN
emarsh@austin.asc.slb.com Eric Marsh
YYY
sblish@sec.sel.sony.com Spencer Blish
NNN
bill@speak-easy.com Bill Teeters
NNN
John.Plocher@Eng.Sun.COM John Plocher
YYY
Martin.Naughalty@UK.Sun.COM Martin J. Naughalty
YYY
Geiser.Peter@ch.swissbank.com Peter M. Geiser
YYY
jess@TFS.COM Jessica Dasha Jex
YY-
nsfjso@ny.ubs.com Jason O'Rourke
NYN
jstrohm@unisql.unisql.com Jim Strohm jstrohm@unisql.unisql.com
YYY
camusdvo@well.com Jerome Camus
YYY
a08762@mailhub.wpl.com Nils Richardson
YYY
jt@geo.eunet.cz Jiri Tesar
YYY
stoelting@math.fu-berlin.de Gregor Stoelting
YYY
loesch@lola.gsf.de Andreas Loesch
YYY
villing@muc.de Thomas
Villinger -YN
list-votes@dream.hb.north.de Martin Schr"oder
NNN
KB@strolchi.swb.de Klaus Beschmann
YYY
adamski@kepler.mechatronik.uni-duisburg.de Dirk Adamski
YYY
markus.lorenz@rphc1.physik.uni-regensburg.de Markus Lorenz
YYY
P.VOLLMAR@LINK-GOE.zerberus.de Peter Vollmar
YYY
borgenm@inet.uni-c.dk Michael Borgen
YYY
tlawson@email.univpubs.american.edu Todd C. Lawson
NYY
chuck@solaris-2.Armstrong.EDU Charles T. Shipley
YYY
mjohnson@stn3.me.calpoly.edu Mark S. Johnson
NNN
RFLING@CLEMSON.EDU Bob Ling
YYY
arnow@newton.Colorado.EDU Jim Arnow
YYY
cls48@columbia.edu Christopher Lodge Stamper
YY-
jmw2@cornell.edu Janice Waller
YYY
kend@csufresno.edu Ken Diliberto
YYY
P0032%TAONODE@VMCMS.CSUOHIO.EDU Howard Grodsky
NNN
ahb@deckard.mc.duke.edu Alan Baydush
YYY
dragboy@mathcs.emory.edu Matthew C. Kimbell
YYY
barton@aura.irm.fau.edu Matthew Barton
YYY
ryang@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu G. Patrick Ryan
NNY
melhus@fdrc.iit.edu Martin F. Melhus
YYN
pyld@grove.iup.edu Matthew Schnierle
NNY
arromdee@blaze.cs.jhu.edu Ken
Arromdee --N
kmount@post.its.mcw.edu Ken Mount
YYY
spindler@heron.rsmas.miami.edu Todd Spindler
YYY
cgh@martigny.ai.mit.edu Carl G. Heinzl
YYY
patl@lcs.mit.edu Patrick J. LoPresti
NNN
osakigwy@pilot.msu.edu Gwynne M. Osaki
YYY
brabec@pysgjb.physics.ncsu.edu Charles J. Brabec
YYY
heimer@osuunx.ucc.okstate.edu John Heimer
YYY
lattin.1@osu.edu Alex Lattin
YYY
yangy@rockvax.rockefeller.edu yolanda yang
NNN
hulber@cs.rpi.edu Mark F. Hulber
YYN
mondore@rpi.edu E. Andrew Mondore
NNN
dmikov@andromeda.rutgers.edu Dmitriy Krasnikov
YYY
ojanen@eden.rutgers.edu Harri Ojanen
NNN
david@lama.stanford.edu Peter R. David
YYY
WALKER@TAMU.EDU David Walker
NYY
sjl@tenet.edu scott lewis
YYY
rick@bcm.tmc.edu Richard H. Miller
YYY
smarry@turing.toronto.edu Smarasderagd
NNN
twpierce@midway.uchicago.edu Tim Pierce
NNY
jball@ucla.edu Jeff Ball
YY-
lancec@cats.ucsc.edu Lance Chun
YYY
hendrick@ucsd.edu W. Lee Hendrick
YYY
sumita@radlab.ucsf.EDU Sumita Chowdhury-Ghosh
YYN
afn17391@freenet.ufl.edu Bill Freeman
YYY
afn20573@freenet.ufl.edu Paul W. Smith
YYN
weiss@adl300.vet.uga.edu Raul Weiss
YYY
mwdaniel@students.uiuc.edu Michael Daniels
YYY
elm@cs.umbc.edu Ethan Miller
YYY
fuy1@gl.umbc.edu Francis
Uy --Y
rjohnson@uog9.uog.edu Randall Johnson
YYY
joe@decoy.uoregon.edu Joe St Sauver
YYY
tmk@uriacc.uri.edu Ted Kellogg
YYN
allen@doug.med.utah.edu Allen Sanderson
YYY
whitec@begws13.beg.utexas.edu Chris White
YYN
lader@uts.cc.utexas.edu Eric Lader
NNN
naguiar@moose.uvm.edu Neil W. Aguiar
YYY
willh@cac.washington.edu Will Hall
YYY
keffeler@u.washington.edu Brian Keffeler
NNN
pemm@u.washington.edu Robert P.
Smith --N
rufinus@mbe.ece.wisc.edu J. Rufinus
YYY
ptbast@owl.WPI.EDU Pete
Bastien --N
s001jfh@nova.wright.edu Joseph F. Hartings
Y-Y
una.smith@yale.edu Una Smith
YYY
vvuorine@cc.helsinki.fi Vuokko Vuorinen
YYY
widenius@cc.helsinki.fi Risto Widenius
NNN
Alexandre.Viale@epita.fr Alexandre VIALE
YYY
udrea@mve.dc.france-telecom.fr Denis UDREA
NNN
bailly@cimrs1.mnhn.fr Nicolas Bailly
YYY
planchon@orphee.polytechnique.fr Fabrice Planchon
YYY
SGORDON@FNALV.FNAL.GOV Steve Gordon
NYN
jjkm@lanl.gov John Meier
YYY
alberts@rockwell2.jsc.nasa.gov Seth Alberts
YYN
i.o.clark@larc.nasa.gov Ivan Clark
YYN
afarrell@maths.tcd.ie Andrew
Farrell --N
bogart@bpb.it Massimo Lanfranconi
YYY
marola@marolaws.iet.unipi.it Giovanni Marola
YYY
mschoenh@sadis01.kelly.af.mil MARK A. SCHOENHERR - LDEE
YYY
i000370@disch3.disc.dla.mil Martin Coghlan
YYY
koontzj9@access.accesscomm.net Joe Koontz
YYY
kc4gr@america.net Finis Ronald Jones
YYN
pats@can.net Pat Smith
YYY
ask@access.digex.net Andrew S. Katz
YYY
mmd@evansville.net Rick Williams
YYN
glewbel@got.net George Lewbel
YYY
dehook@hookup.net Doug Hook
YYY
dwayne@hula.net David Cabell
NNN
fvotten@ibm.net Frans van Otten
YYY
mjlevy@inforamp.net Michael Levy
NYN
mnoe@interport.net Michael J. Noe
YYY
rs@ham.island.net Robert Smits
YYY
wicked@itl.net Chris Morgan
YYY
jamesd@gp.magick.net Jim DeCourcey
YYY
jammer@oz.net Lyle Harwood
NNN
hoffman@earth.planet.net Jean-Paul Hoffman
YYY
mwkeiser@slip.net Michael W. Keiser
YYY
saul@spacelab.net Saul Kaiserman
YY-
luriep@tiac.net pete lurie
YYY
GSLG@cbs.nl Guido M.A. Selling
YYY
csaamw@urc.tue.nl Michiel Wijers
NNN
kremer@worldxs.worldaccess.nl Harro Kremer
YYY
uppheim@login.eunet.no Arne Uppheim
YYY
tos@merkur.sds.no Tom Stokka
YYY
cfbd@southern.co.nz Colin
Douthwaite --N
martini@acm.org Martin Lyngvig
YYY
jnave@mail.asiandevbank.org Joel Nave
NNN
j_young@cpcug.org John Young
NNN
chris.gripp@helpinghand.org Christopher S. Gripp
NNN
jonboy@io.org Trevor Tymchuk
YYY
scary@prairienet.org Larry Chenault
YYY
adb@herboid.reptiles.org Anthony DeBoer
YYY
judith@super.org Judith D. Schlesinger
YYY
michal@smtpgw.kfshrc.edu.sa Michael Einspenner
YYY
etxjhap@profit.ericsson.se Anders Johansson
YYY
gunnarj@iftech.se Gunnar Jensen
YYY
agj@titan.np.ac.sg George J. Alexander
YYY
maldives@singnet.com.sg M. Alim
YYY
jarmt@lbk.fer.uni-lj.si Tomaz JARM
YYN
cas2@coventry.ac.uk Craig Sim
YY-
a.peacock@chime.ucl.ac.uk Anthony Peacock
YYY
pyoung@srd.bt.co.uk Pete
Young -YY
bj64@cityscape.co.uk Stephanie Peters
YYY
kweller@cix.compulink.co.uk Kevin Weller
YYY
doug@ivydene1.demon.co.uk Doug Taylor
YY-
m-brown@dircon.co.uk Manfred Brown
YYN
secw@mfltd.co.uk Samuel Warwick
YYY
a018496t@bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us Fern Rosenwasser
YYY
msoots@co.tillamook.or.us Michael Soots
YYY
bhyat@egoli.min.wits.ac.za Zaheer Bhyat
YYY

Invalid ballots
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
morris7@server.uwindsor.ca Morrison M
Michelle
! No vote statement in message
GTFORMAN@aol.com
! No vote statement in message
Postmaster@sierravideo.com Marshall A.
Kendrick
! Ineligible address
mark@odyssey.bei.net
! No name given

DISTRIBUTION:

In addition to the groups named in the Newsgroups: header, the CFV and
the eventual RESULT posts will be posted separately to the following
list:
uw-photo@world.std.com

"Dan Bracuk" <NOTbracuk@pathcom.com> wrote in message
news:68il71p68dr439av93jkb34a0m02au9o15@4ax.com...

> There are no rules on this newsgroup. The reference is a faq, not a
> set of rules.

There is a charter for this newsgroup, as there is for rec.scuba.equipment,
the charter is the "rules". It is cited and replicated in the FAQ. It says:
"Commercial advertisements are not appropriate." Argue away all you want as
to what that means, but I doubt there are many more than you who don't
understand it's intent.

The fact that rec.scuba doesn't have a charter, or your "rules", doesn't
equate to the lesser groups of the hierachy not having them either.

"Greg Mossman" <mossman@qnet.com> wrote in message
news:117m4o5b1sgid77@corp.supernews.com...
> "Dan Bracuk" <NOTbracuk@pathcom.com> wrote in message
> news:68il71p68dr439av93jkb34a0m02au9o15@4ax.com...
>
>> There are no rules on this newsgroup. The reference is a faq, not a
>> set of rules.
>
> Uh huh. Whatever.

Looking at the voters I see that Reef Fish, Gordon Gunn, Jason O/Rourke and
Jammer are listed.

Perhaps Dan., who knows all this anyway, would explain to them why that
wasn't a Charter and "rules" they were voting on.

By the way, I notice Jammer voted NNN.....ever the antagonist I see :^)

Wow,

didn't expect that there would be all this fuss, did not intend to
offend anybody! and as the person who seems to be most offended or a
least most vocal is Greg I would like to appologise wholeheartedly for
any offence caused to you! I would however like to say a few things:-

Thanks Greg I have used the deeperblue forums before and not realy
understood that I was also using news groups at the same time, haven't
infact used news groups for about 7-8 years. I have now sorted out my
newsfeed and have read all the stuff you posted. I have read the FAQs
and the charter that you hold so dear. I note that this charter was
last voted on in 1995 is that correct?

Alot of what you have said stems around your belief that what I am
doing is a commercial add. If by that you mean that I am opening the
trip up to anybody that is interested then yes that is the case. If
however you mean that I am doing it for profit then you are very much
mistaken and I am prepared to prove it to you personally. I am simply
trying to get a group of like minded divers and thier partners if they
want, to go on a great trip to an area that I have been to many times
and think is great for diving!

If you read the web site you will note that all the web site actually
does is ask that people 'register thier interest' if they have one. I
am trying to guage if thier is enough interest to do the trip in
Jan/Feb 2006. I am trying to do this in the same way a club might ask
it's members, but since this trip is quite different I am trying a
broarder approach.

There seems to me to be a couple of issues the first of which seems to
be some rivalry between the different newsgroups and the fact that
deeperblue link directly into some of these news groups. The fact that
they do increases the traffic they get and frankly makes it easier to
take part. The rivalry I shall ignore!!! But they do not make the
'rules' or 'charter' immediatly obvious to those using the news groups
through deeperblue.

You said in your abuse report,
quote"
Rather than simply terminate the account of this one user, I would draw
your
attention to the fact that there simply are no posts of redeeming value

coming from the broader Deeper Blue bulletin board system and it our
sincere
hope that all such feeds from such an indirect system be terminated as
well,
as their users have proven to be unrepentant and totally
reprehensible." end quote.

I presume that the "our" is a royal our and that you actually mean that
it is your sincere hope etc etc. I also understand your generalisation
about the deeperblue users, but is it realy the case that they are all
"unrepentant and totally reprehensible"?

It seems that ads such as mine are not always correctly catogorised as
'commercial' or 'non commercial' by some people and that it would seem
sencible to have a subsection in some of these newsgroups for ads!
Thereby removing the chance of offending people. maybe the time is
right for this where it clearly wasn't in 1995! After all the world has
moved on a whole lot since then.

I have no intention to rant in this post so if it seems that way sorry!
All I realy want to do is say "I've got a great idea for a trip to Bali
and Lombok, anybody interested?" This just seemed the logical way to do
it.


--
jason

Padi divemaster
------------------------------------------------------------------------
jason's Profile: http://forums.deeperblue.net/member....fo&userid=1389
View this thread: http://forums.deeperblue.net/showthr...threadid=60860


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