Diving Archeologists wrongfully detained by indonesian police

"Froggy" wrote

> But be careful, you may end up helping some French and German guys

We do that all the time. It's the reverse that's not as common as it should
be.

Lee

Most amusing tale.

The first sign of severe bullshit is the police spokesman's title.
Brigadere General. We don't see a lot of Brigadeer General police spokesmen
in this part of the world.

The second sign is that everything was fine until they realized the value of
the items being raised. It only became a crime when the find proved
valuable. Personally, if forced to chose who was most likely to be the
thief, the General would be more likely to find himself on the way to
prison.

I find it particularly interesting that that valuable, historic artifacts so
important to Indonesian police, are Chinese vases. If the divers are
looters, so are the Indonesians. Send it all back to China.

Lee

Most amusing tale.

The first sign of severe bullshit is the police spokesman's title.
Brigadere General. We don't see a lot of Brigadeer General police spokesmen
in this part of the world.

The second sign is that everything was fine until they realized the value of
the items being raised. It only became a crime when the find proved
valuable. Personally, if forced to chose who was most likely to be the
thief, the General would be more likely to find himself on the way to
prison.

I find it particularly interesting that that valuable, historic artifacts so
important to Indonesian police, are Chinese vases. If the divers are
looters, so are the Indonesians. Send it all back to China.

Lee

Most amusing tale.

The first sign of severe bullshit is the police spokesman's title.
Brigadere General. We don't see a lot of Brigadeer General police spokesmen
in this part of the world.

The second sign is that everything was fine until they realized the value of
the items being raised. It only became a crime when the find proved
valuable. Personally, if forced to chose who was most likely to be the
thief, the General would be more likely to find himself on the way to
prison.

I find it particularly interesting that that valuable, historic artifacts so
important to Indonesian police, are Chinese vases. If the divers are
looters, so are the Indonesians. Send it all back to China.

Lee

Most amusing tale.

The first sign of severe bullshit is the police spokesman's title.
Brigadere General. We don't see a lot of Brigadeer General police spokesmen
in this part of the world.

The second sign is that everything was fine until they realized the value of
the items being raised. It only became a crime when the find proved
valuable. Personally, if forced to chose who was most likely to be the
thief, the General would be more likely to find himself on the way to
prison.

I find it particularly interesting that that valuable, historic artifacts so
important to Indonesian police, are Chinese vases. If the divers are
looters, so are the Indonesians. Send it all back to China.

Lee

Most amusing tale.

The first sign of severe bullshit is the police spokesman's title.
Brigadere General. We don't see a lot of Brigadeer General police spokesmen
in this part of the world.

The second sign is that everything was fine until they realized the value of
the items being raised. It only became a crime when the find proved
valuable. Personally, if forced to chose who was most likely to be the
thief, the General would be more likely to find himself on the way to
prison.

I find it particularly interesting that that valuable, historic artifacts so
important to Indonesian police, are Chinese vases. If the divers are
looters, so are the Indonesians. Send it all back to China.

Lee

Most amusing tale.

The first sign of severe bullshit is the police spokesman's title.
Brigadere General. We don't see a lot of Brigadeer General police spokesmen
in this part of the world.

The second sign is that everything was fine until they realized the value of
the items being raised. It only became a crime when the find proved
valuable. Personally, if forced to chose who was most likely to be the
thief, the General would be more likely to find himself on the way to
prison.

I find it particularly interesting that that valuable, historic artifacts so
important to Indonesian police, are Chinese vases. If the divers are
looters, so are the Indonesians. Send it all back to China.

Lee

Most amusing tale.

The first sign of severe bullshit is the police spokesman's title.
Brigadere General. We don't see a lot of Brigadeer General police spokesmen
in this part of the world.

The second sign is that everything was fine until they realized the value of
the items being raised. It only became a crime when the find proved
valuable. Personally, if forced to chose who was most likely to be the
thief, the General would be more likely to find himself on the way to
prison.

I find it particularly interesting that that valuable, historic artifacts so
important to Indonesian police, are Chinese vases. If the divers are
looters, so are the Indonesians. Send it all back to China.

Lee

"Froggy" wrote

> Given the background of these guys, unless you do have a specific
> expertise, they probably know a lot more on how to operate there than
> you do.

Perhaps not. They don't seem to be doing too well at the moment.

> For this type of operation, paying a bribe would probably be
> counterproductive. They got a legitimate deal with the government. The
> competitor bribes the police and the police gets in the way. Now if
> they had bribed the government to start with, then they would be in
> deep trouble because they would have no basis to counter the police
> action. Here they can at least hope that international pressure and
> exposure in the media will help them.

Maybe they should have paid off the police too?

It's pretty certain that they sould have kept the value of what they were
recovering a bit less public.

> And more generally, would you prefer to see underwater exploration
> conducted in an appropriate way by professional types, or being looted
> at the expense of scientific knowledge and artifacts conservation?

How much difference is there. The articles I read seem to indicate that
they are planning on selling the items they recover at auction, with 50% of
the proceeds going to the Indonesian government. How does that preserve the
scientific knowledge or artifacts?

It seems to me that they have, in fact, established their bribes and simply
failed to include everyone that should have been considered.

Lee

"Froggy" wrote

> Given the background of these guys, unless you do have a specific
> expertise, they probably know a lot more on how to operate there than
> you do.

Perhaps not. They don't seem to be doing too well at the moment.

> For this type of operation, paying a bribe would probably be
> counterproductive. They got a legitimate deal with the government. The
> competitor bribes the police and the police gets in the way. Now if
> they had bribed the government to start with, then they would be in
> deep trouble because they would have no basis to counter the police
> action. Here they can at least hope that international pressure and
> exposure in the media will help them.

Maybe they should have paid off the police too?

It's pretty certain that they sould have kept the value of what they were
recovering a bit less public.

> And more generally, would you prefer to see underwater exploration
> conducted in an appropriate way by professional types, or being looted
> at the expense of scientific knowledge and artifacts conservation?

How much difference is there. The articles I read seem to indicate that
they are planning on selling the items they recover at auction, with 50% of
the proceeds going to the Indonesian government. How does that preserve the
scientific knowledge or artifacts?

It seems to me that they have, in fact, established their bribes and simply
failed to include everyone that should have been considered.

Lee