proposed new legislation in Israel

I wish to register my voice in protest against the new proposed
legislation that would require divers in Israel to dive only in the
framework of guided dives.

While I can appreciate the reasons behind the proposal, namely to
safeguard life and to help preserve the coral reefs in Eilat, and
while I do not question the purity of the motives of the initiator of
the proposal, cannot agree to the basic limitations that such
legislation would place on divers' freedom. Please consider the
following:

1. Diving is inherently dangerous, yes, but its practioners are
consenting adults, and ultimately they are responsible for their
actions.
2. Israel has recently required that a newbie diver complete no less
than 20 guided dives before he/she is authorized to dive without a
guide. Surely that is enough.
3. Waterproof diving maps to the attractions, complete with azimuth,
distances and depth should be made available. I should mention that
Jumping Joe Photography has made a good start in that direction, but
the lead should be taken by the authorities.
4. Diving clubs should be held to a stricter standard of rental
equipment; the closest I ever came to a diving accident came about
through poor equipment rented from a club during a guided dive.
5. The proposed legislation would greatly increase the cost of an
already expensive sport.
6. If, as the initiator claims, Israeli divers are inherently more
irresponsible than there international colleagues, (a claim often
echoed in the realm of driving), then perhaps changes are indicated in
the training courses. Surely no one would advocate having a driving
instructor present every time one wants to drive down to Eilat to go
diving...!

Elad Lending, worried diver

"Elad Lending" <lending@yahel.co.il> wrote in message
news:afaa0811.0407162027.e1510fe@posting.google.co m...
> I wish to register my voice in protest against the new proposed
> legislation that would require divers in Israel to dive only in the
> framework of guided dives.
>
> While I can appreciate the reasons behind the proposal, namely to
> safeguard life and to help preserve the coral reefs in Eilat, and
> while I do not question the purity of the motives of the initiator of
> the proposal, cannot agree to the basic limitations that such
> legislation would place on divers' freedom. Please consider the
> following:
>
> 1. Diving is inherently dangerous, yes, but its practioners are
> consenting adults, and ultimately they are responsible for their
> actions.
> 2. Israel has recently required that a newbie diver complete no less
> than 20 guided dives before he/she is authorized to dive without a
> guide. Surely that is enough.
> 3. Waterproof diving maps to the attractions, complete with azimuth,
> distances and depth should be made available. I should mention that
> Jumping Joe Photography has made a good start in that direction, but
> the lead should be taken by the authorities.
> 4. Diving clubs should be held to a stricter standard of rental
> equipment; the closest I ever came to a diving accident came about
> through poor equipment rented from a club during a guided dive.
> 5. The proposed legislation would greatly increase the cost of an
> already expensive sport.
> 6. If, as the initiator claims, Israeli divers are inherently more
> irresponsible than there international colleagues, (a claim often
> echoed in the realm of driving), then perhaps changes are indicated in
> the training courses. Surely no one would advocate having a driving
> instructor present every time one wants to drive down to Eilat to go
> diving...!
>
> Elad Lending, worried diver

After seeing the condition of reefs with easy access to divers (in the Red
Sea, in general)....
I'd say keep any diver off of them without a guide that has a tough
disposition.
Lots of damage from divers on these reefs.

> 1. Diving is inherently dangerous, yes, but its practioners are
> consenting adults, and ultimately they are responsible for their
> actions.

Yes....but can they be held accountable?

> 2. Israel has recently required that a newbie diver complete no less
> than 20 guided dives before he/she is authorized to dive without a
> guide. Surely that is enough.

Look at the damage....perhaps not.

> 3. Waterproof diving maps to the attractions, complete with azimuth,
> distances and depth should be made available. I should mention that
> Jumping Joe Photography has made a good start in that direction, but
> the lead should be taken by the authorities.

You are so concerned about additional expense...who's going to pay for this
survey and production of material? You? or do you want the general
population of Israel? Plus look how many people you will put to work for
peanuts. Good for the economy right?

> 4. Diving clubs should be held to a stricter standard of rental
> equipment; the closest I ever came to a diving accident came about
> through poor equipment rented from a club during a guided dive.

Divers should be knowledgeable enough to reject poorly maintained rental
equipment.

> 5. The proposed legislation would greatly increase the cost of an
> already expensive sport.

I don't think so....especially when compared to your other requests. They
represent a far greater cost to not only divers but to the Israeli community
at large.

> 6. If, as the initiator claims, Israeli divers are inherently more
> irresponsible than there international colleagues, (a claim often
> echoed in the realm of driving), then perhaps changes are indicated in
> the training courses. Surely no one would advocate having a driving
> instructor present every time one wants to drive down to Eilat to go
> diving...!

Israeli divers are probably not any more irresponsible than other European
divers...or any diver really. You can talk about conservation till your blue
in the face and maybe effect some positive behavior....but divers are
consumers. Even the best conservator, if diving on the reef, is in some way
a consumer.
Guided diving doesn't mean that the dive guides hold everyone's hand. Good
dive masters can be omnipresent if trained well.

It could be a very positive move and work to the good of all parties.

Forest Aten

"Elad Lending" wrote

> I wish to register my voice in protest against the new proposed
> legislation that would require divers in Israel to dive only in the
> framework of guided dives.
>
> While I can appreciate the reasons behind the proposal, namely to
> safeguard life and to help preserve the coral reefs in Eilat, and
> while I do not question the purity of the motives of the initiator of
> the proposal, cannot agree to the basic limitations that such
> legislation would place on divers' freedom. Please consider the
> following:
>
> 1. Diving is inherently dangerous, yes, but its practioners are
> consenting adults, and ultimately they are responsible for their
> actions.

It's considerably safer than, say, living in Israel.

> 2. Israel has recently required that a newbie diver complete no less
> than 20 guided dives before he/she is authorized to dive without a
> guide. Surely that is enough.

It's not a matter of numbers, it's a matter of quality.

> 4. Diving clubs should be held to a stricter standard of rental
> equipment; the closest I ever came to a diving accident came about
> through poor equipment rented from a club during a guided dive.

While true, if you want to avoid legislation that controls your diving, the
person that should hold the club to a stricter quality standard is the
person that rents the equipment.

Lee

There are two separate issues here: diver safety, and preservation of
the reef.
When I wrote:> >
> > 1. Diving is inherently dangerous, yes, but its practioners are
> > consenting adults, and ultimately they are responsible for their
> > actions.
>
> I meant that the same way a diver can choose to use a dive computer
or not, use Nitrox or not, buy equipment or not, he can choose to dive
in guided groups or not. If it's a question of his safety, if he
holds the requisite licence, it should be his choice. The truth might
be a little more complicated. The estate of a diver accident victim
is likely to sue the dive club through which the victim dove, even if
the club's only involvement was to to sell air. If the club is going
to "be sued anyway", isn't it logical from their point of view to want
to control the diving situation as much as possible? But this is a
question of insurance policy more than diver safety.
>
When I wrote:
> > 2. Israel has recently required that a newbie diver complete no less
> > than 20 guided dives before he/she is authorized to dive without a
> > guide. Surely that is enough.

I should have included that:

New Israeli regulations also require a refresher dive if the diver has
not dove within five months.
New Israeli regulations now require that diving the "Japanese Gardens"
must be done in guided groups from a Zodiak, even though it's easily
accessible from the shore. As it happens, I did this guided dive
yesterday, greatly enjoyed it, and do not object to this policy of
being "super careful" with Eilat's most beautiful site.
Recent Nature Reserve Authority policy is to brief divers and
snorkelers who visit the Coral Reserve; for years it was totally
lacking.
>
>
> > I do not understand Forrest's comment about the cost of providing
waterproof maps of the dive sites. The information already exists;
all that needs to be done is to publish it on plastic or waterproof
paper. I would be the first to buy it. The only reason I brought it
up was because the initiator of the proposed legislation based his
argument, in part, on the fact that a recent accident was caused by a
diver searching unsuccessfully for a submerged wreck. >

The proposed legislation makes more sense from a preservation point of
view rather than from a safety point of view, but I say that better
diver education is the better answer. I would also claim here, from
firsthand observation, that it is the snorkelers, more than the
divers, who cause the most damage. They have no formal training, and
think nothing, for example, of standing on the reef to adjust their
masks. The damage is far less apparent where it is out of reach of
the snorkelers.


Elad

"Elad Lending" <lending@yahel.co.il> wrote in message
news:afaa0811.0407162027.e1510fe@posting.google.co m...
> I wish to register my voice in protest against the new proposed
> legislation that would require divers in Israel to dive only in the
> framework of guided dives.
>
> While I can appreciate the reasons behind the proposal, namely to
> safeguard life and to help preserve the coral reefs in Eilat, and
> while I do not question the purity of the motives of the initiator of
> the proposal, cannot agree to the basic limitations that such
> legislation would place on divers' freedom. Please consider the
> following:
>
> 1. Diving is inherently dangerous, yes, but its practioners are
> consenting adults, and ultimately they are responsible for their
> actions.
> 2. Israel has recently required that a newbie diver complete no less
> than 20 guided dives before he/she is authorized to dive without a
> guide. Surely that is enough.
> 3. Waterproof diving maps to the attractions, complete with azimuth,
> distances and depth should be made available. I should mention that
> Jumping Joe Photography has made a good start in that direction, but
> the lead should be taken by the authorities.
> 4. Diving clubs should be held to a stricter standard of rental
> equipment; the closest I ever came to a diving accident came about
> through poor equipment rented from a club during a guided dive.
> 5. The proposed legislation would greatly increase the cost of an
> already expensive sport.
> 6. If, as the initiator claims, Israeli divers are inherently more
> irresponsible than there international colleagues, (a claim often
> echoed in the realm of driving), then perhaps changes are indicated in
> the training courses. Surely no one would advocate having a driving
> instructor present every time one wants to drive down to Eilat to go
> diving...!
>
> Elad Lending, worried diver

I dove in Eilat a couple of months ago and was surprised by how strict their laws
are. They require dive insurance, a dive within 6 months logged preferably with an
official stamp, and have depth limit 20m open water and 30m advanced. Actually we
found lots of rules dealing with other forms of recreation and especially dealing
with safety. For example the swimming pools tend to close down very early at 5-7 pm
because there is no lifeguard after this time. Ironic they are so safety conscious
with all the danger of terrorism and war.

I tend to agree that these regulations have gone too far compared to rest of the
world and would tend to drive scuba tourism away. I like the idea of being able to
dive without a guide. In trying to understand their thinking I wonder if it has to do
with the small size of the reef area available to the country and the strong desire
to protect what they have. I must say we found the reefs at the Coral Reserve Park in
Eilat to be in good condition. Other times I thought all the regulation has to do
with the socialist history of the founders of the country and their propensity to
bureaucracy?

Adam

"Adam Helberg" <sendspamhere@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<iZGKc.6902$mL5.753@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net>...
> "Elad Lending" <lending@yahel.co.il> wrote in message
> news:afaa0811.0407162027.e1510fe@posting.google.co m...
> > I wish to register my voice in protest against the new proposed
> > legislation that would require divers in Israel to dive only in the
> > framework of guided dives.
> >
> > While I can appreciate the reasons behind the proposal, namely to
> > safeguard life and to help preserve the coral reefs in Eilat, and
> > while I do not question the purity of the motives of the initiator of
> > the proposal, cannot agree to the basic limitations that such
> > legislation would place on divers' freedom. Please consider the
> > following:
> >
> > 1. Diving is inherently dangerous, yes, but its practioners are
> > consenting adults, and ultimately they are responsible for their
> > actions.
> > 2. Israel has recently required that a newbie diver complete no less
> > than 20 guided dives before he/she is authorized to dive without a
> > guide. Surely that is enough.
> > 3. Waterproof diving maps to the attractions, complete with azimuth,
> > distances and depth should be made available. I should mention that
> > Jumping Joe Photography has made a good start in that direction, but
> > the lead should be taken by the authorities.
> > 4. Diving clubs should be held to a stricter standard of rental
> > equipment; the closest I ever came to a diving accident came about
> > through poor equipment rented from a club during a guided dive.
> > 5. The proposed legislation would greatly increase the cost of an
> > already expensive sport.
> > 6. If, as the initiator claims, Israeli divers are inherently more
> > irresponsible than there international colleagues, (a claim often
> > echoed in the realm of driving), then perhaps changes are indicated in
> > the training courses. Surely no one would advocate having a driving
> > instructor present every time one wants to drive down to Eilat to go
> > diving...!
> >
> > Elad Lending, worried diver
>
> I dove in Eilat a couple of months ago and was surprised by how strict their laws
> are. They require dive insurance, a dive within 6 months logged preferably with an
> official stamp, and have depth limit 20m open water and 30m advanced. Actually we
> found lots of rules dealing with other forms of recreation and especially dealing
> with safety. For example the swimming pools tend to close down very early at 5-7 pm
> because there is no lifeguard after this time. Ironic they are so safety conscious
> with all the danger of terrorism and war.
>
> I tend to agree that these regulations have gone too far compared to rest of the
> world and would tend to drive scuba tourism away. I like the idea of being able to
> dive without a guide. In trying to understand their thinking I wonder if it has to do
> with the small size of the reef area available to the country and the strong desire
> to protect what they have. I must say we found the reefs at the Coral Reserve Park in
> Eilat to be in good condition. Other times I thought all the regulation has to do
> with the socialist history of the founders of the country and their propensity to
> bureaucracy?
>
> Adam

Adam, I believe that neither the socialist leanings of the founders
nor their propensity for bureaucracy have anything to do with this
initiative to propose new legislation requiring that all dives be
guided dives. (So far it's just a proposal.) The small size of the
reef, the large number of divers, the decline in the overall health of
the reef in recent years due to a number of factors (including
diver-caused damage), a sincere desire to do things right (even if we
don't always succeed), a sincere desire to preserve life, and a
willingness to follow Egypt's lead, which actually has adopted similar
legislation, is at work.

By the way, there's no irony here. We Israelis cherish life.
Terrorism, if it has any effect at all, only makes us cherish it more.

Elad, worried Israeli diver

>From: lending@yahel.co.il (Elad Lending)

>By the way, there's no irony here. We Israelis cherish life.
>Terrorism, if it has any effect at all, only makes us cherish it more.
>
>Elad, worried Israeli diver

God bless Israel.


Popeye
"Best thing for him, really. His therapy
was going nowhere," -Hannibal Lector.

"Elad Lending" <lending@yahel.co.il> wrote in message
news:afaa0811.0407191106.21d86088@posting.google.c om...
> "Adam Helberg" <sendspamhere@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<iZGKc.6902$mL5.753@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net>...
> > "Elad Lending" <lending@yahel.co.il> wrote in message
> > news:afaa0811.0407162027.e1510fe@posting.google.co m...
> > > I wish to register my voice in protest against the new proposed
> > > legislation that would require divers in Israel to dive only in the
> > > framework of guided dives.
> > >
> > > While I can appreciate the reasons behind the proposal, namely to
> > > safeguard life and to help preserve the coral reefs in Eilat, and
> > > while I do not question the purity of the motives of the initiator of
> > > the proposal, cannot agree to the basic limitations that such
> > > legislation would place on divers' freedom. Please consider the
> > > following:
> > >
> > > 1. Diving is inherently dangerous, yes, but its practioners are
> > > consenting adults, and ultimately they are responsible for their
> > > actions.
> > > 2. Israel has recently required that a newbie diver complete no less
> > > than 20 guided dives before he/she is authorized to dive without a
> > > guide. Surely that is enough.
> > > 3. Waterproof diving maps to the attractions, complete with azimuth,
> > > distances and depth should be made available. I should mention that
> > > Jumping Joe Photography has made a good start in that direction, but
> > > the lead should be taken by the authorities.
> > > 4. Diving clubs should be held to a stricter standard of rental
> > > equipment; the closest I ever came to a diving accident came about
> > > through poor equipment rented from a club during a guided dive.
> > > 5. The proposed legislation would greatly increase the cost of an
> > > already expensive sport.
> > > 6. If, as the initiator claims, Israeli divers are inherently more
> > > irresponsible than there international colleagues, (a claim often
> > > echoed in the realm of driving), then perhaps changes are indicated in
> > > the training courses. Surely no one would advocate having a driving
> > > instructor present every time one wants to drive down to Eilat to go
> > > diving...!
> > >
> > > Elad Lending, worried diver
> >
> > I dove in Eilat a couple of months ago and was surprised by how strict their laws
> > are. They require dive insurance, a dive within 6 months logged preferably with
an
> > official stamp, and have depth limit 20m open water and 30m advanced. Actually we
> > found lots of rules dealing with other forms of recreation and especially dealing
> > with safety. For example the swimming pools tend to close down very early at 5-7
pm
> > because there is no lifeguard after this time. Ironic they are so safety
conscious
> > with all the danger of terrorism and war.
> >
> > I tend to agree that these regulations have gone too far compared to rest of the
> > world and would tend to drive scuba tourism away. I like the idea of being able
to
> > dive without a guide. In trying to understand their thinking I wonder if it has
to do
> > with the small size of the reef area available to the country and the strong
desire
> > to protect what they have. I must say we found the reefs at the Coral Reserve
Park in
> > Eilat to be in good condition. Other times I thought all the regulation has to do
> > with the socialist history of the founders of the country and their propensity to
> > bureaucracy?
> >
> > Adam
>
> Adam, I believe that neither the socialist leanings of the founders
> nor their propensity for bureaucracy have anything to do with this
> initiative to propose new legislation requiring that all dives be
> guided dives. (So far it's just a proposal.) The small size of the
> reef, the large number of divers, the decline in the overall health of
> the reef in recent years due to a number of factors (including
> diver-caused damage), a sincere desire to do things right (even if we
> don't always succeed), a sincere desire to preserve life, and a
> willingness to follow Egypt's lead, which actually has adopted similar
> legislation, is at work.
>
> By the way, there's no irony here. We Israelis cherish life.
> Terrorism, if it has any effect at all, only makes us cherish it more.
>
> Elad, worried Israeli diver

The other peculiar thing we noticed is that most divers in Eilat were young
fit-looking men. It's as if diving is considered too dangerous except for the
athletic young, which I believe was the same case here in the US years ago. We are
used to seeing more women diving, more older people and more pot-bellied older men,
than in Israel.

One more question. Shaving the head seems to be very popular with young men in
Israel. What's with that?

Adam

"Popeye NCAT3" <buzcutt454@aol.comByteMe> wrote in message
news:20040720140524.14909.00000010@mb-m10.aol.com...
> >From: lending@yahel.co.il (Elad Lending)
>
> >By the way, there's no irony here. We Israelis cherish life.
> >Terrorism, if it has any effect at all, only makes us cherish it more.
> >
> >Elad, worried Israeli diver
>
> God bless Israel.
>
>
> Popeye
> "Best thing for him, really. His therapy
> was going nowhere," -Hannibal Lector.

Well, for once you and I agree.

Adam

"Adam Helberg" <sendspamhere@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<MqdLc.8340$mL5.2943@newsread1.news.pas.earth link.net>...
> "Elad Lending" <lending@yahel.co.il> wrote in message
> news:afaa0811.0407191106.21d86088@posting.google.c om...
> > "Adam Helberg" <sendspamhere@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:<iZGKc.6902$mL5.753@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net>...
> > > "Elad Lending" <lending@yahel.co.il> wrote in message
> > > news:afaa0811.0407162027.e1510fe@posting.google.co m...
> > > > I wish to register my voice in protest against the new proposed
> > > > legislation that would require divers in Israel to dive only in the
> > > > framework of guided dives.
> > > >
> > > > While I can appreciate the reasons behind the proposal, namely to
> > > > safeguard life and to help preserve the coral reefs in Eilat, and
> > > > while I do not question the purity of the motives of the initiator of
> > > > the proposal, cannot agree to the basic limitations that such
> > > > legislation would place on divers' freedom. Please consider the
> > > > following:
> > > >
> > > > 1. Diving is inherently dangerous, yes, but its practioners are
> > > > consenting adults, and ultimately they are responsible for their
> > > > actions.
> > > > 2. Israel has recently required that a newbie diver complete no less
> > > > than 20 guided dives before he/she is authorized to dive without a
> > > > guide. Surely that is enough.
> > > > 3. Waterproof diving maps to the attractions, complete with azimuth,
> > > > distances and depth should be made available. I should mention that
> > > > Jumping Joe Photography has made a good start in that direction, but
> > > > the lead should be taken by the authorities.
> > > > 4. Diving clubs should be held to a stricter standard of rental
> > > > equipment; the closest I ever came to a diving accident came about
> > > > through poor equipment rented from a club during a guided dive.
> > > > 5. The proposed legislation would greatly increase the cost of an
> > > > already expensive sport.
> > > > 6. If, as the initiator claims, Israeli divers are inherently more
> > > > irresponsible than there international colleagues, (a claim often
> > > > echoed in the realm of driving), then perhaps changes are indicated in
> > > > the training courses. Surely no one would advocate having a driving
> > > > instructor present every time one wants to drive down to Eilat to go
> > > > diving...!
> > > >
> > > > Elad Lending, worried diver
> > >
> > > I dove in Eilat a couple of months ago and was surprised by how strict their laws
> > > are. They require dive insurance, a dive within 6 months logged preferably with
> an
> > > official stamp, and have depth limit 20m open water and 30m advanced. Actually we
> > > found lots of rules dealing with other forms of recreation and especially dealing
> > > with safety. For example the swimming pools tend to close down very early at 5-7
> pm
> > > because there is no lifeguard after this time. Ironic they are so safety
> conscious
> > > with all the danger of terrorism and war.
> > >
> > > I tend to agree that these regulations have gone too far compared to rest of the
> > > world and would tend to drive scuba tourism away. I like the idea of being able
> to
> > > dive without a guide. In trying to understand their thinking I wonder if it has
> to do
> > > with the small size of the reef area available to the country and the strong
> desire
> > > to protect what they have. I must say we found the reefs at the Coral Reserve
> Park in
> > > Eilat to be in good condition. Other times I thought all the regulation has to do
> > > with the socialist history of the founders of the country and their propensity to
> > > bureaucracy?
> > >
> > > Adam
> >
> > Adam, I believe that neither the socialist leanings of the founders
> > nor their propensity for bureaucracy have anything to do with this
> > initiative to propose new legislation requiring that all dives be
> > guided dives. (So far it's just a proposal.) The small size of the
> > reef, the large number of divers, the decline in the overall health of
> > the reef in recent years due to a number of factors (including
> > diver-caused damage), a sincere desire to do things right (even if we
> > don't always succeed), a sincere desire to preserve life, and a
> > willingness to follow Egypt's lead, which actually has adopted similar
> > legislation, is at work.
> >
> > By the way, there's no irony here. We Israelis cherish life.
> > Terrorism, if it has any effect at all, only makes us cherish it more.
> >
> > Elad, worried Israeli diver
>
> The other peculiar thing we noticed is that most divers in Eilat were young
> fit-looking men. It's as if diving is considered too dangerous except for the
> athletic young, which I believe was the same case here in the US years ago. We are
> used to seeing more women diving, more older people and more pot-bellied older men,
> than in Israel.
>
> One more question. Shaving the head seems to be very popular with young men in
> Israel. What's with that?
>
> Adam


Maybe the type of Israeli diver you see depends on which dive club you
go to. At the one I go to, there are plenty of women and older men,
along with the youngsters. I'm 48, pot-bellied, and have a shaven
head, and my dive partner is my 18-year-old son. As for the popularity
of the shaven head, my theory is that Israel is perhaps the only place
in the world where a shaven head is not taken as a sign that the owner
is a neo-nazi... but we're getting sidetracked.


Elad