Surviving diver recounts horror of Baja Mexico dive trip

When you ask a question like "Does that seem odd to you?", you seem to
belabor the obvious because that's precisely the reason why there was an
accident. There were a lot of "odd" things about the dive. We focus on
these "odd" things now because there was a fatality. Though I don't presume
to be an expert diver but in the majority of dives I've been in, there's
always something "odd" like the divemaster not having some sort of signaling
device or what not. Rare is the dive operator that is so meticulous that
they will do everything by the book. When the dive is uneventful, we don't
even notice or pay attention to such "oddities". However when something does
happen, the hindsight becomes 20/20 and we start noticing those odd things.

"Calamari" <Calamari_114@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dd5ce96a.0311170736.65306f8e@posting.google.c om...
> Alan Shepard's Tiny Penis <fraudulent_gear_tests@rodales.com> wrote in
message news:<e0ef0527139d1cd3c98f4556f84aa7ec@news.terane ws.com>...
> > On 15 Nov 2003 20:39:32 -0800, babette7401@hotmail.com (Salty) wrote:
> >
> > >"Dive News" <always@on.topic.always> wrote in message
news:<3fb64599$0$27727$45beb828@newscene.com>...
> > >
> > >> Surviving diver recounts horror of Baja Mexico dive trip
> > >> http://www.cdnn.info/safety/s031114a/s031114a.html
> > >
> > >Having been diving there two years in a row and my most recent trip
> > >was with Ken Kurtis just 6 or 8 weeks ago... and having been diving
> > >with the alledged guilty dive operation, Baja Expeditions, I am left
> > >shaking my head at the account of this incident.
> > >
> > >The diver who died was a woman named Vrooman, who was 77 yrs old. I
> > >don't see the age of the person who was her buddy...a woman named
> > >Hoover, someone who had been Vrooman's buddy for 13 yrs of diving
> > >trips. The account is given by Scott Jones.
> > >
> > >He says... "Marilyn and Katie were very in tune to each other. They
> > >were never more than 5 or 6 ft apart." From the report : "Suddenly
> > >there was a sea surge, he said, which the dive master never warned
> > >them about. Suddenly Vrooman was separated from Hoover and Jones from
> > >his dive partner, he said. "The surge was coming in and out", he
> > >said. "I saw Katie by herself and I knew something was wrong. Katie
> > >was never by herself." And then he said, Vrooman disappeared. Jones
> > >said he went to the surface and inflated his BCD. It was then that he
> > >saw the surge throw Vrooman twice against the rocks and boulders."
> > >
> > >The account gets stranger and stanger by the minute from there.
> > >
> > >After diving there, it wouldn't take a dive master's briefing for me
> > >to understand that there was the potential of a strong surge in many
> > >areas. I don't think that any diver would need a diver master to point
> > >that out if the diver had a fair amount of experience with shore
> > >diving. And this victim was a supposedly a woman who had been diving
> > >at least 13 yrs ?? She was 77 yrs old... think maybe she just
> > >shouldn't have diving in those conditions at her age ?? The witness
> > >goes on to say how he took his gear off and tried mouth to mouth resus
> > >with her, etc. Where was the boat at this time ?? This account is
> > >beyond belief.
> >
> > Good post! The lack of information about any emergency response by
> > the dive boat involved is indeed puzzling. One thing is clear from
> > recent accident reports. There has been an increase in accidents
> > involving lost divers. Something to keep in mind when planning a
> > drift dive halfway around the world on the "MV Myopic Paradise".
>
> > drift dive halfway around the world on the "MV Myopic Paradise".
>
> Replying with a different nick and email but it's me...
>
> LOL !! The M/V Myopic Paradise is very funny !! Great humor !! :)
>
> Re: your statement about lost divers, well consider this : The man
> named Scott was supposedly a Master Instructor, IIRC. The account
> mentions nothing at all about him using a whistle, dive sausage, Dive
> Alert, flare or any other signaling device that one might carry in an
> area with dives such as this. Does that seem odd to you ??
>
> Also... Scott was separated from his buddy. And Vrooman, the dead
> diver, was separated from her buddy. Now... let's just assume that
> the crew of the boat drank way too many tequlla shots that day and
> didn't bother to take a head count of divers after the dive. Why
> didn't Scott's buddy and Vrooman's buddy speak up and say that their
> pals were a bit lost at sea so that the boat didn't just leave ??
> Something isn't right here.
>
> I know that many ppl hate CDNN. I don't think CDNN is that bad
> though. They have reprinted the account as it appears in another
> paper. If the first account is wrong, it isn't CDNN's fault now is it
> ???????

cb wrote:
> When you ask a question like "Does that seem odd to you?", you seem to
> belabor the obvious because that's precisely the reason why there was an
> accident. There were a lot of "odd" things about the dive. We focus on
> these "odd" things now because there was a fatality. Though I don't presume
> to be an expert diver but in the majority of dives I've been in, there's
> always something "odd" like the divemaster not having some sort of signaling
> device or what not. Rare is the dive operator that is so meticulous that
> they will do everything by the book. When the dive is uneventful, we don't
> even notice or pay attention to such "oddities". However when something does
> happen, the hindsight becomes 20/20 and we start noticing those odd things.
>
> "Calamari" <Calamari_114@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:dd5ce96a.0311170736.65306f8e@posting.google.c om...
>
>>Alan Shepard's Tiny Penis <fraudulent_gear_tests@rodales.com> wrote in
>
> message news:<e0ef0527139d1cd3c98f4556f84aa7ec@news.terane ws.com>...
>
>>>On 15 Nov 2003 20:39:32 -0800, babette7401@hotmail.com (Salty) wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Dive News" <always@on.topic.always> wrote in message
>
> news:<3fb64599$0$27727$45beb828@newscene.com>...
>
>>>>>Surviving diver recounts horror of Baja Mexico dive trip
>>>>>http://www.cdnn.info/safety/s031114a/s031114a.html
>>>>
>>>>Having been diving there two years in a row and my most recent trip
>>>>was with Ken Kurtis just 6 or 8 weeks ago... and having been diving
>>>>with the alledged guilty dive operation, Baja Expeditions, I am left
>>>>shaking my head at the account of this incident.
>>>>
>>>>The diver who died was a woman named Vrooman, who was 77 yrs old. I
>>>>don't see the age of the person who was her buddy...a woman named
>>>>Hoover, someone who had been Vrooman's buddy for 13 yrs of diving
>>>>trips. The account is given by Scott Jones.
>>>>
>>>>He says... "Marilyn and Katie were very in tune to each other. They
>>>>were never more than 5 or 6 ft apart." From the report : "Suddenly
>>>>there was a sea surge, he said, which the dive master never warned
>>>>them about. Suddenly Vrooman was separated from Hoover and Jones from
>>>>his dive partner, he said. "The surge was coming in and out", he
>>>>said. "I saw Katie by herself and I knew something was wrong. Katie
>>>>was never by herself." And then he said, Vrooman disappeared. Jones
>>>>said he went to the surface and inflated his BCD. It was then that he
>>>>saw the surge throw Vrooman twice against the rocks and boulders."
>>>>
>>>>The account gets stranger and stanger by the minute from there.
>>>>
>>>>After diving there, it wouldn't take a dive master's briefing for me
>>>>to understand that there was the potential of a strong surge in many
>>>>areas. I don't think that any diver would need a diver master to point
>>>>that out if the diver had a fair amount of experience with shore
>>>>diving. And this victim was a supposedly a woman who had been diving
>>>>at least 13 yrs ?? She was 77 yrs old... think maybe she just
>>>>shouldn't have diving in those conditions at her age ?? The witness
>>>>goes on to say how he took his gear off and tried mouth to mouth resus
>>>>with her, etc. Where was the boat at this time ?? This account is
>>>>beyond belief.
>>>
>>>Good post! The lack of information about any emergency response by
>>>the dive boat involved is indeed puzzling. One thing is clear from
>>>recent accident reports. There has been an increase in accidents
>>>involving lost divers. Something to keep in mind when planning a
>>>drift dive halfway around the world on the "MV Myopic Paradise".
>>
>>>drift dive halfway around the world on the "MV Myopic Paradise".
>>
>>Replying with a different nick and email but it's me...
>>
>>LOL !! The M/V Myopic Paradise is very funny !! Great humor !! :)
>>
>>Re: your statement about lost divers, well consider this : The man
>>named Scott was supposedly a Master Instructor, IIRC. The account
>>mentions nothing at all about him using a whistle, dive sausage, Dive
>>Alert, flare or any other signaling device that one might carry in an
>>area with dives such as this. Does that seem odd to you ??
>>
>>Also... Scott was separated from his buddy. And Vrooman, the dead
>>diver, was separated from her buddy. Now... let's just assume that
>>the crew of the boat drank way too many tequlla shots that day and
>>didn't bother to take a head count of divers after the dive. Why
>>didn't Scott's buddy and Vrooman's buddy speak up and say that their
>>pals were a bit lost at sea so that the boat didn't just leave ??
>>Something isn't right here.
>>
>>I know that many ppl hate CDNN. I don't think CDNN is that bad
>>though. They have reprinted the account as it appears in another
>>paper. If the first account is wrong, it isn't CDNN's fault now is it
>>???????
>
>
>
Another top-poster!

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 18:04:35 GMT, "Oahu Dive Center"
<res1iryt@verizon.net> wrote:

>"They have reprinted the account as it appears in another
>paper. If the first account is wrong, it isn't CDNN's fault now is it"
>
>It is if they reprint it as if it was their own. "Responsible journalism"
>and all that means that you verify the accuracy of your source material and,
>if you can't, you don't print it. Something that CDNN seems to ignore a lot
>of the time.
>
>Sensationalistic reporting sure is popular these days, though...


Aloha Christie! Noticed that your "we built it in an hour" web site
features Rodale's and its Top 100 stuff-the-ballot-box scam. Since
you are obviously attempting to promote your business with yet another
Rodale's marketing scam, it would certainly appear you have a vested
interest in supporting Rodale's and criticizing anyone who questions
their integrity. BTW, isn't Rodale's Top 100 the same promotional
scam that rated Rodale's advertiser Kelly's On the Bay/Aqua Nut Divers
the best dive op in Florida? As I recall, that was about a month or
so after they were convicted of gross negligence for returning to base
without two of their boat diving customers AND FAILING TO NOTICE THE
DIVERS WERE MISSING despite two missing scuba tanks and two
unaccounted for gear bags on the deck of the boat? Evidently all you
have to do to win is advertise with Rodale's, demonstrate that you're
too stupid to count, and get convicted of gross negligence. Good luck
Christie with the magazine Oahu Dive Center trusts!

"cb" <cb@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<bWaub.9168$zN4.2875@news.cpqcorp.net>...

> When you ask a question like "Does that seem odd to you?", you seem to
> belabor the obvious because that's precisely the reason why there was an
> accident. There were a lot of "odd" things about the dive. We focus on
> these "odd" things now because there was a fatality. Though I don't presume
> to be an expert diver but in the majority of dives I've been in, there's
> always something "odd" like the divemaster not having some sort of signaling
> device or what not. Rare is the dive operator that is so meticulous that
> they will do everything by the book. When the dive is uneventful, we don't
> even notice or pay attention to such "oddities". However when something does
> happen, the hindsight becomes 20/20 and we start noticing those odd things.

You could have a point about the 'oddities'.

"Alan Shepard's Tiny Penis" <fraudulent_gear_tests@rodales.com> wrote in
message news:4a6ba8bffd65274f9513e1cb26cafc74@news.teranew s.com...

> Are we looking at the same web site? The article is properly credited
> and sourced, "SOURCE - QC Times". Is it too late to get a refund on
> your third-grade readling lessons?

Readling lessons? I haven't readled in ages.

But I will admit my eyes failed to notice the faint light grey on white
print at the end of the plagiarized article. Proper crediting and sourcing
is done right at the beginning of the article in the byline, in the same
typeface and color as the rest of the article. But who would expect a
plagiarizer to be proper?

Oahu Dive Center <res1iryt@verizon.net> wrote:
>"They have reprinted the account as it appears in another
>paper. If the first account is wrong, it isn't CDNN's fault now is it"
>
>It is if they reprint it as if it was their own. "Responsible journalism"
>and all that means that you verify the accuracy of your source material and,
>if you can't, you don't print it. Something that CDNN seems to ignore a lot
>of the time.

Ummm, responsible journalism is never reprinting an article as if it
were your own.
--
Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com

On 17 Nov 2003 22:52:16 -0800, babette7401@hotmail.com (Salty) wrote:

>Alan Shepard's Tiny Penis <fraudulent_gear_tests@rodales.com> wrote in message news:<4a6ba8bffd65274f9513e1cb26cafc74@news.terane ws.com>...
>
>> On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:31:22 -0800, "Greg Mossman" <mossman@qnet.com>
>> wrote:
>> >They reprinted it? You can't tell from the article, which appears to be
>> >written by Thomas Geyer of CDNN with no credit to another source. If CDNN
>> >is merely a reprinter of unoriginal material, why don't they say so?
>
>> Are we looking at the same web site? The article is properly credited
>> and sourced, "SOURCE - QC Times". Is it too late to get a refund on
>> your third-grade readling lessons?
>
>Now, now. There's no need to get bitchy with Mr Mossman. Btw... I
>think that CDNN reprints most of their stories but I could be wrong on
>this. They usually say the source of the article but I have noticed
>that sometimes they list it in a very light color so that it's not
>that easily read.

Depends on the source. Playboy is in high-profile, bold, "put it in
your mouth babe" lipstick red. BBC is in austere, mid-Atlantic "No
darling, I always have sex with my socks on" gray. Nature is in bold,
expanding our frontiers blue-green. And DAN accident stats are in
faded Pete Bennett 'corrupt undies yellow'.

Correction: Change "corrupt undies yellow" to "cobalt yellow". My
mistake!

On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:25:18 GMT, Alan Shepard's Tiny Penis
<fraudulent_gear_tests@rodales.com> wrote:

>That's easy! Anyone with at least a third-grade education who
>understands the meaning of "plagiarize" and can spell "gray".

At least in the UK we're generally better than third-grade and can
manage the correct spelling of GREY! :)

David

"Two nations divided by a common language". George Bernard Shaw.

On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:57:49 +0000 (UTC), jor@soda.csua.berkeley.edu
(Jason O'Rourke) wrote:

>Oahu Dive Center <res1iryt@verizon.net> wrote:
>>"They have reprinted the account as it appears in another
>>paper. If the first account is wrong, it isn't CDNN's fault now is it"
>>
>>It is if they reprint it as if it was their own. "Responsible journalism"
>>and all that means that you verify the accuracy of your source material and,
>>if you can't, you don't print it. Something that CDNN seems to ignore a lot
>>of the time.
>
>Ummm, responsible journalism is never reprinting an article as if it
>were your own.

"responsible journalism" is an oxymoron. Btw, who are the two ugly
fuckheads with the malformed feet standing in the cave at jor.com?

"Alan Shepard's Tiny Penis" <fraudulent_gear_tests@rodales.com> wrote in
message news:ba7793962f70f0fa9139449cc693a957@news.teranew s.com...

> Anyway, if your attempt to demonize CDNN has bogged down into picking
> at DARK GRAY nits and sniveling about CDNN's page layout, I reckon the
> jury's in and the verdict is to leave Rodale's forked tongue tickling
> your flabby old ass. About your failing eyes, you might try a
> different screen resolution, or dump the chatroom habit altogether
> (some say it's easier to quit smoking) and take up a new hobby. How
> about checkers old timer?

Chatroom? That's a terrible misspelling of "newsgroup". Try again.