Name of Dive Shop at the Fiesta Americana Hotel in Cozumel

Reef Fish wrote:
> scubacenote wrote:
> > Hi Sy!
> >
> > This is Armando Elizalde, director of www.scubacenote.com. I would need
> > to confirm, but I believe that the name of the marina infront of Fiesta
> > Americana Cozumel is "marina sport"... I live in Playa del Carmen,
>
> Armando, Ben Bradlee had already identified correctly that the Dive
> Shop is Juan Leca's Dive House. Been there for quite awhile. See
> my post about Flash Gordon and Jorge there in 1993:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.s...9ae62b5?hl=en&
>
> I am sure you're anxious to sell you cenote diving to Syt or anyone
> in Cozumel. But if Cyt is staying at the Fiasta Americana Hotel in
> Cozumel, there is cenote diving within a VERY SHORT walking
> distance from that hotel! So, why should he travel to Playa del
> Carmen to do his cenote diving?
>
> There are miles and miles of excellent cenotes in Cozumel whose
> entrance is not far from there. Chuck Jones used to be the
> authority and the most experienced cenote diver in Cozumel.
> Now there are several shops IN Cozumel that have programs
> to cenote dive in Cozumel, as well as on the mainland.
>
> -- Bob.
Ok, sooorry. I got the divshop wrong! Now, about the cenotes, Chuck
knows a lot, he is (or was) an authority alright, But youuu, could
educate yourself a bit more about cenotes, and then you will know why
it is better to do cenote in the mainland, I am not going to explain it
to you here, since you will thinK that I am desperate to do sales,
which I am not, since I have plenty of bussiness: I am never anxious. I
do not need your forum at all, I was just trying to be friendly and
helpfull.... I have been cavern diving instructor & full cave diver
since '98 and have done 4000 + cenote dives, and I can tell you that
if SYT is not a full cave diver for NACD or TDI or IANTD, She wont even
be able to visit most of the shitty-boring cenotes in cozumel, since
they are mostly cave dives, not cavern.
Are you everybody's daddy here?
Sicerely Armando.

scubacenote wrote:
> Reef Fish wrote:
> > scubacenote wrote:
> > > Hi Sy!
> > >
> > > This is Armando Elizalde, director of www.scubacenote.com. I would need
> > > to confirm, but I believe that the name of the marina infront of Fiesta
> > > Americana Cozumel is "marina sport"... I live in Playa del Carmen,
> >
> > Armando, Ben Bradlee had already identified correctly that the Dive
> > Shop is Juan Leca's Dive House. Been there for quite awhile. See
> > my post about Flash Gordon and Jorge there in 1993:
> >
> > http://groups.google.com/group/rec.s...9ae62b5?hl=en&
> >
> > I am sure you're anxious to sell you cenote diving to Syt or anyone
> > in Cozumel. But if Cyt is staying at the Fiasta Americana Hotel in
> > Cozumel, there is cenote diving within a VERY SHORT walking
> > distance from that hotel! So, why should he travel to Playa del
> > Carmen to do his cenote diving?
> >
> > There are miles and miles of excellent cenotes in Cozumel whose
> > entrance is not far from there. Chuck Jones used to be the
> > authority and the most experienced cenote diver in Cozumel.
> > Now there are several shops IN Cozumel that have programs
> > to cenote dive in Cozumel, as well as on the mainland.
> >
> > -- Bob.
> Ok, sooorry. I got the divshop wrong! Now, about the cenotes, Chuck
> knows a lot, he is (or was) an authority alright, But youuu, could
> educate yourself a bit more about cenotes, and then you will know why
> it is better to do cenote in the mainland, I am not going to explain it
> to you here, since you will thinK that I am desperate to do sales,

Actually I knew all about the cenotes in Cozumel (from Chuck), and
the cenotes in Akumal (from my caving friends) and why they are
superior to the cenotes in Cozumel, etc.

It's just not my STYLE of diving. No overhead, period!

But it's a question of trade off, between doing very good cenotes
right under your feet (from Fiesta Americana) and taking the trek
to the mainland. If I were a beginning cenote diver, I would
explore those in Cozumel first, before venturing to the greener
grass on the mainland -- whish is not ALWAYS greener.

> which I am not, since I have plenty of bussiness: I am never anxious. I
> do not need your forum at all, I was just trying to be friendly and
> helpfull.... I have been cavern diving instructor & full cave diver
> since '98 and have done 4000 + cenote dives,

How did you count them? By my Fibonnaci method of cocunting
dives? LOL.

> and I can tell you that
> if SYT is not a full cave diver for NACD or TDI or IANTD, She wont even
> be able to visit most of the shitty-boring cenotes in cozumel, since
> they are mostly cave dives, not cavern.

You're certainly FOS about full cave cert before you can dive the
cenotes in Cozumel. I've known many divers who had dived the
cenotes in Cozumel AND akumal who are not even cave
certified!

> Are you everybody's daddy here?

Nah. I just know much more about Cozumet's scuba and
cenote dives than you do. You didn't even know the dive shop
at Fiesta American which is practically right above the cenotes
in Cozumel. LOL.

> Sicerely Armando.

You should go to the techdiver or cave-diver forums to blow
your horn and get laughed by those folks there.

-- Reef Fish Bob.

You have a style? No overhead? Sorry, I only do over head, I condsider
it superior, they are nicer down here, you are preventing SYT from a
great experience, Let them decide for themselves, I Agree, You know
more about those little ridiculous ponds of Cozumel you guys dare to
call "cenote dive" there is no comparison! DAY AND NIGHT!!! It was
just my opinion, I really don't mind if SYT goes to one of your
"charcos" with out almost any stalagtites and stalagmites, let alone
columns. And yes, you know a lot about Cozumel, so what?
About the dives it is easy: I have been diving twice every day since
april 96, with the obious two or three week vacation each year, and a
few weekends off, Becuse this is what I do for a living since then. A
and you don't even penetrate? You know, good for your people that they
have you to save them form (fill blank:_____________) like me.
Reef Fish ha escrito:

> scubacenote wrote:
> > Reef Fish wrote:
> > > scubacenote wrote:
> > > > Hi Sy!
> > > >
> > > > This is Armando Elizalde, director of www.scubacenote.com. I would need
> > > > to confirm, but I believe that the name of the marina infront of Fiesta
> > > > Americana Cozumel is "marina sport"... I live in Playa del Carmen,
> > >
> > > Armando, Ben Bradlee had already identified correctly that the Dive
> > > Shop is Juan Leca's Dive House. Been there for quite awhile. See
> > > my post about Flash Gordon and Jorge there in 1993:
> > >
> > > http://groups.google.com/group/rec.s...9ae62b5?hl=en&
> > >
> > > I am sure you're anxious to sell you cenote diving to Syt or anyone
> > > in Cozumel. But if Cyt is staying at the Fiasta Americana Hotel in
> > > Cozumel, there is cenote diving within a VERY SHORT walking
> > > distance from that hotel! So, why should he travel to Playa del
> > > Carmen to do his cenote diving?
> > >
> > > There are miles and miles of excellent cenotes in Cozumel whose
> > > entrance is not far from there. Chuck Jones used to be the
> > > authority and the most experienced cenote diver in Cozumel.
> > > Now there are several shops IN Cozumel that have programs
> > > to cenote dive in Cozumel, as well as on the mainland.
> > >
> > > -- Bob.
> > Ok, sooorry. I got the divshop wrong! Now, about the cenotes, Chuck
> > knows a lot, he is (or was) an authority alright, But youuu, could
> > educate yourself a bit more about cenotes, and then you will know why
> > it is better to do cenote in the mainland, I am not going to explain it
> > to you here, since you will thinK that I am desperate to do sales,
>
> Actually I knew all about the cenotes in Cozumel (from Chuck), and
> the cenotes in Akumal (from my caving friends) and why they are
> superior to the cenotes in Cozumel, etc.
>
> It's just not my STYLE of diving. No overhead, period!
>
> But it's a question of trade off, between doing very good cenotes
> right under your feet (from Fiesta Americana) and taking the trek
> to the mainland. If I were a beginning cenote diver, I would
> explore those in Cozumel first, before venturing to the greener
> grass on the mainland -- whish is not ALWAYS greener.
>
> > which I am not, since I have plenty of bussiness: I am never anxious. I
> > do not need your forum at all, I was just trying to be friendly and
> > helpfull.... I have been cavern diving instructor & full cave diver
> > since '98 and have done 4000 + cenote dives,
>
> How did you count them? By my Fibonnaci method of cocunting
> dives? LOL.
>
> > and I can tell you that
> > if SYT is not a full cave diver for NACD or TDI or IANTD, She wont even
> > be able to visit most of the shitty-boring cenotes in cozumel, since
> > they are mostly cave dives, not cavern.
>
> You're certainly FOS about full cave cert before you can dive the
> cenotes in Cozumel. I've known many divers who had dived the
> cenotes in Cozumel AND akumal who are not even cave
> certified!
>
> > Are you everybody's daddy here?
>
> Nah. I just know much more about Cozumet's scuba and
> cenote dives than you do. You didn't even know the dive shop
> at Fiesta American which is practically right above the cenotes
> in Cozumel. LOL.
>
> > Sicerely Armando.
>
> You should go to the techdiver or cave-diver forums to blow
> your horn and get laughed by those folks there.
>
> -- Reef Fish Bob.

You have a style? No overhead? Sorry, I only do over head, I condsider
it superior, they are nicer down here, you are preventing SYT from a
great experience, Let them decide for themselves, I Agree, You know
more about those little ridiculous ponds of Cozumel you guys dare to
call "cenote dive" there is no comparison! DAY AND NIGHT!!! It was
just my opinion, I really don't mind if SYT goes to one of your
"charcos" with out almost any stalagtites and stalagmites, let alone
columns. And yes, you know a lot about Cozumel, so what?
About the dives it is easy: I have been diving twice every day since
april 96, with the obious two or three week vacation each year, and a
few weekends off, Becuse this is what I do for a living since then. A
and you don't even penetrate? You know, good for your people that they
have you to save them form (fill blank:_____________) like me.
Reef Fish ha escrito:

> scubacenote wrote:
> > Reef Fish wrote:
> > > scubacenote wrote:
> > > > Hi Sy!
> > > >
> > > > This is Armando Elizalde, director of www.scubacenote.com. I would need
> > > > to confirm, but I believe that the name of the marina infront of Fiesta
> > > > Americana Cozumel is "marina sport"... I live in Playa del Carmen,
> > >
> > > Armando, Ben Bradlee had already identified correctly that the Dive
> > > Shop is Juan Leca's Dive House. Been there for quite awhile. See
> > > my post about Flash Gordon and Jorge there in 1993:
> > >
> > > http://groups.google.com/group/rec.s...9ae62b5?hl=en&
> > >
> > > I am sure you're anxious to sell you cenote diving to Syt or anyone
> > > in Cozumel. But if Cyt is staying at the Fiasta Americana Hotel in
> > > Cozumel, there is cenote diving within a VERY SHORT walking
> > > distance from that hotel! So, why should he travel to Playa del
> > > Carmen to do his cenote diving?
> > >
> > > There are miles and miles of excellent cenotes in Cozumel whose
> > > entrance is not far from there. Chuck Jones used to be the
> > > authority and the most experienced cenote diver in Cozumel.
> > > Now there are several shops IN Cozumel that have programs
> > > to cenote dive in Cozumel, as well as on the mainland.
> > >
> > > -- Bob.
> > Ok, sooorry. I got the divshop wrong! Now, about the cenotes, Chuck
> > knows a lot, he is (or was) an authority alright, But youuu, could
> > educate yourself a bit more about cenotes, and then you will know why
> > it is better to do cenote in the mainland, I am not going to explain it
> > to you here, since you will thinK that I am desperate to do sales,
>
> Actually I knew all about the cenotes in Cozumel (from Chuck), and
> the cenotes in Akumal (from my caving friends) and why they are
> superior to the cenotes in Cozumel, etc.
>
> It's just not my STYLE of diving. No overhead, period!
>
> But it's a question of trade off, between doing very good cenotes
> right under your feet (from Fiesta Americana) and taking the trek
> to the mainland. If I were a beginning cenote diver, I would
> explore those in Cozumel first, before venturing to the greener
> grass on the mainland -- whish is not ALWAYS greener.
>
> > which I am not, since I have plenty of bussiness: I am never anxious. I
> > do not need your forum at all, I was just trying to be friendly and
> > helpfull.... I have been cavern diving instructor & full cave diver
> > since '98 and have done 4000 + cenote dives,
>
> How did you count them? By my Fibonnaci method of cocunting
> dives? LOL.
>
> > and I can tell you that
> > if SYT is not a full cave diver for NACD or TDI or IANTD, She wont even
> > be able to visit most of the shitty-boring cenotes in cozumel, since
> > they are mostly cave dives, not cavern.
>
> You're certainly FOS about full cave cert before you can dive the
> cenotes in Cozumel. I've known many divers who had dived the
> cenotes in Cozumel AND akumal who are not even cave
> certified!
>
> > Are you everybody's daddy here?
>
> Nah. I just know much more about Cozumet's scuba and
> cenote dives than you do. You didn't even know the dive shop
> at Fiesta American which is practically right above the cenotes
> in Cozumel. LOL.
>
> > Sicerely Armando.
>
> You should go to the techdiver or cave-diver forums to blow
> your horn and get laughed by those folks there.
>
> -- Reef Fish Bob.

scubacenote wrote:
> You have a style? No overhead?

FYI, you should know that you're talking with Bob Ling, one of the
local trolls. Bob is simply trying to engage you in a conversation so
that he can then twist it into an arguement with you.


The diving facts are that Bob has been in Cozumel's various "Devil's
Throat" cavern formations many, many times. So when he says he does
not dive overhead environments, you can use your own opinion of if
these are considered to be an overhead environment, or not, to
determine if he is credible.

In fairness, it is possible that Bob has gotten more conservative in
his old age and as a result, has given up doing these overhead dives in
caverns. But if he has, he's never clearly stated that change. The
same also applies for his old habit of deep air bounce dives.


-hh

-hh ha escrito:

> scubacenote wrote:
> > You have a style? No overhead?
>
> FYI, you should know that you're talking with Bob Ling, one of the
> local trolls. Bob is simply trying to engage you in a conversation so
> that he can then twist it into an arguement with you.
>
I Do not want to bother any body, if you read my messages you will see
that it was me who was most conciliatory, I do not think that being
conservative is a bad thing, and If Bob has now chosen not to do
overhead enviroment, good for him, but that does not mean that every
body else should do so too...
Now, Devil's throat is an overhead dive that according to the cave
diving standards that we use in NACD, is super dangerous, specialy the
way it is done by people there. The penetration is too long to do it
safely with out cave training & specialized equipment, But people does
it any way risking their lives every day with out knowing. Good for
him, if he does not do that again...
Now, Why is it then, that we take Open water divers Under overhead
enviroment in the mainland? Because we do it in the most conservative
way! We never penetrate beyond the natural light with them. We never
take them trhough tunnels that are too narrow for two divers to pass
sharing air, Overhead enviroment deeper than 22 meters (70ft) is
consider CAVE for NACD, and cave is only for cave divers, so we only
take the beginers to dives in the average of 35 feet! This above is
consicered the cavern area, and it is enough to show you the Amazing
Beauty of millions calcarean formations. Bob, sorry. Dont want to
bother you man. And guys: Go arround and check the info that we both
been telling you, We were arguing about tottaly different things, Bob,
I am not a bad guy, I am not trying to compete with you, Show you that
I know better, nor anything, but the least thing that I want or I would
do, is to "rip off" your friends telling them lies... They are all
adults and will (believe me) do their own desicion. That was how you
were picturing me at the begining: as a lier trying to lure them into
buying something not good for them... I Invite you Bob to come and dive
with me for free: DOS OJOS, GRAN CENOTE, TAXMA-HA, or any of the
Tremendously pretty cavern diving we do here... And every body else:
Both Bob and me are "local trolls" I am sure that Bob will continue to
give you good advice, and I am sure they will be good ones, but just in
this cenote issue, ask arround a bit more, not to me either, to who
ever you want.
sincerely
Armando













>
> The diving facts are that Bob has been in Cozumel's various "Devil's
> Throat" cavern formations many, many times. So when he says he does
> not dive overhead environments, you can use your own opinion of if
> these are considered to be an overhead environment, or not, to
> determine if he is credible.
>
> In fairness, it is possible that Bob has gotten more conservative in
> his old age and as a result, has given up doing these overhead dives in
> caverns. But if he has, he's never clearly stated that change. The
> same also applies for his old habit of deep air bounce dives.
>
>
> -hh

-hh wrote

> In fairness, it is possible that Bob has gotten more conservative in
> his old age and as a result, has given up doing these overhead dives in
> caverns. But if he has, he's never clearly stated that change. The
> same also applies for his old habit of deep air bounce dives.

I don't know if he's said it here, but he has indicated a decrease in the
number of dives he does both due to his age and problems his wife has with
her ears. His wife's inability to dive with him never seemed to slow him
down in the past, so I have to conclude that age is the more significant
factor.

I've not seen him post anything, ever, about becoming more conservative. On
the other hand, in Bob's own opinion, he's always been conservative.

Lee

Imagine that you are half way down of "punta sur" devil's, with normal
scuba unit (no 3 meter octopus hose, no doubles with maniful), two
divers in front, two divers behind, and you have a reg problem that
prevents you from breathing (eg. HP hose burst!) !? Scary thought at
that depth, Am I wrong?

Thus spake "scubacenote" <scubacenote@hotmail.com> :

>Imagine that you are half way down of "punta sur" devil's, with normal
>scuba unit (no 3 meter octopus hose, no doubles with maniful), two
>divers in front, two divers behind, and you have a reg problem that
>prevents you from breathing (eg. HP hose burst!) !? Scary thought at
>that depth, Am I wrong?

HP hose? No problem. Just call the dive and ascend normally. LP
hose? Turn around and grab the octo from one of the guys behind you.

Anybody who remembers their training and doesn't panic can get out of
almost any problem. Been there, done that, didn't get a t-shirt.

May, 2002, Carol's octo blew off at the first stage. Handed her my
octo, turned off her air and we made our ascent from about 65 feet.
Since this was at the end of the dive, 90 feet, we made a 5 minute
stop at 15 feet. No problems until we got to the surface and she
bitched about having to orally inflate her BC. Last dive of the day,
so no big deal. They did have the spares on board, though. I now
carry a 3 foot LP hose in my save a dive.
--
dillon

JAFO

Dillon Pyron wrote:
> Thus spake "scubacenote" <scubacenote@hotmail.com> :
>
> >Imagine that you are half way down of "punta sur" devil's, with normal
> >scuba unit (no 3 meter octopus hose, no doubles with maniful), two
> >divers in front, two divers behind, and you have a reg problem that
> >prevents you from breathing (eg. HP hose burst!) !? Scary thought at
> >that depth, Am I wrong?
>
> HP hose? No problem. Just call the dive and ascend normally.


With the caveat being that it is being assumed that the regulator in
question is less than 25 years old ...ie, since flow restriction
orifices on HP ports became standard back in the early 1980's

For such a modern regulator, we can probably assume "no HP hose
attached" flow rate of <3 cubic feet per minute, or roughly 100psi/min
on an AL80.

This would mean that a 5 minute abort/ascent would consume an extra
500psi due to the HP leak, which essentially means that the only divers
who would get in trouble are the ones with the poor judgement to have
headed into the overhead environment with less than 1000psi in the
first place.


-hh